An open letter to RMAF Vendors 2014

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Vulcan00

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #40 on: 15 Oct 2014, 05:15 pm »


2. Is it possible to have too much equipment? I notice with Salk speakers that had a dozen pairs of speakers in their room (over exaggerating). A few is ok to compare a couple of lines but when there is wall to wall speakers it overcomplicates things in my book. Get a second or third room if you got that much stuff.

This is the third RMAF I planned to attend and just could not make it as a consumer, just had other business commitments and could not make it. Each time I looked into the cost for me to attend, Its not a cheap trip for me. Not knowing the details of the Salk room this years, I do know, that several interested parties like my self, go to see certain speakers/ products with the intention to decide to buy, with no other opportunity to see the equipment.  I know persons that request / beg that the product they are interested in be present at the show. Considering the cost/ expense for a individual consumer to go, its awful hard to turn down the request. It is not just to be able to make a sell but to be fair to the person making the effort and laying down the cash.

Vinnie R.

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #41 on: 15 Oct 2014, 06:07 pm »
All,

We were in the CanJam section this year, but we do a number of shows each year (in the hotel rooms).  The feedback of the show attendees is ESSENTIAL for making the show a success for BOTH the attendees and the exhibitors, so this thread started by Pez is very valuable and I
hope more posts like this surface and also make their way to the companies that host these shows (e.g. Chester Group, Marjorie of RMAF, etc.) so they can pass it along to the exhibitors.  Hopefully with lots of feedback and ideas from the attendees, the exhibitors can make the experience more fun and interactive.  There really is no point in us spending the time and money on these shows if the attendees aren't having a good time and interacting. 

The shows are not cheap for us small guys, so I appreciate the feedback to help make these shows more meaningful to everyone.
I'm not sure we'll ever have a 'standard' set of guidelines that all exhibitors and attendees will agree on, but suggested models / ideas like what Pez started with on this thread can be worked on and put into action, regarding things like:

- Allowing attendees to play their music (or at least select from a collection of music that the exhibitor has on hand)

- Taking conversations outside as much as possible (not always easy because people come up to you and want to chat, but if it is going
on for more than a minute, it should move outside the room to not distract people.  I'm not always good at this one!  :oops:)

- Attitudes of BOTH exhibitors and attendees (lets face it - the world it filled with all kinds of people from all kinds of backgrounds, so getting this
'adjusted' is not always easy).  Some attendees are just as rude and snobby as the exhibitors.  I'm not sure what it will take to improve this, but it needs work!  :duh:

- Room comfort (temperature, odor, etc). I"m not going to lie - some people come into the rooms with terrible BO, and it lingers for a while even after they leave. It's not fair for the exhibitors and the people who come in afterwards.  Perhaps cans of Febreze are a necessity  :idea:

- Volume level >> some people want to play it loud and rock out, and others want to hear how a system sounds at lower levels.  But when the room is packed with people, it is challenging to make everyone happy at the same time.  Ideas?

- Played out music >> I try to avoid the same old tracks that I hear every time I walk through the halls (e.g. Hotel California, Tea for the Tilleraman, Krall, Pink Floyd, etc.), but BELIEVE ME - some attendees ask for this.  Really!  "Can you play something by Diana Krall?"  "Got anything with female voice and a guitar?"  "Got any DSOTM?"  Or they hand me a disc with these played out demo tracks, but we want to make the attendees happy, so we'll play it.  Then I'm sure people come into the room and think "oh no, not another room playing XYZ!"  If you say "we don't play that in this room" - it is snobby!  So how do we make it a win-win for everyone?

Here is anther thing that happens often:  I'm playing jazz, and someone remarks "I'm so bored of hearing jazz in these rooms - don't you have any classical music?"  So I play classical - and someone says the same thing - "All I hear at these shows is classical music, don't you have any blues?"  Then when you play blues, somebody is tired of that and wants "singer/songwriter music" or "female vocals."  You play female vocals and then someone complains there is not enough music with male vocals being played!  :lol:  :banghead:   You get the idea!

NOTE - not everyone does this sort of thing and it doesn't happen all the time, but it happens quite a bit and I try not to LOL or take offense.  It's just inevitable because people and their tastes (and how they choose to express them) are so different.

I'll sign off on this by saying what others have said - It's a two-way street and we ALL can work on improving things.  Hopefully we can work together and make it a lot better for everyone.  Count me in!

Anyway - cool thread and I look forward to seeing more feedback and ideas, because these shows are supposed to be FUN and something that everyone looks forward to coming to!   8)

Vinnie


roscoeiii

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #42 on: 15 Oct 2014, 06:33 pm »


Here is anther thing that happens often:  I'm playing jazz, and someone remarks "I'm so bored of hearing jazz in these rooms - don't you have any classical music?"  So I play classical - and someone says the same thing - "All I hear at these shows is classical music, don't you have any blues?"  Then when you play blues, somebody is tired of that and wants "singer/songwriter music" or "female vocals."  You play female vocals and then someone complains there is not enough music with male vocals being played!  :lol:  :banghead:   You get the idea!


Yeah, this is why I think it is important for exhibitors to mix up the selections that they play and perhaps try to play shorter tracks or only excerpts from very long tracks. Tracks that aid in evaluating gear's ability with multiple components of music that are being listened for are also worth playing. Maybe I don't like the track being played personally, but if I can use it to evaluate dynamics, male vocals, stringed instruments etc. then I am less grumpy about hearing music I am not to big a fan of.

My biggest achievement at RMAF: I did not hear Hotel California or the Eagles once!!!

DaveC113

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #43 on: 15 Oct 2014, 06:35 pm »
I heard the same Stevie Ray Vaughn track 3 TIMES IN A ROW going to 3 different rooms. That was eerie.

vinyl_lady

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #44 on: 15 Oct 2014, 06:44 pm »

My biggest achievement at RMAF: I did not hear Hotel California or the Eagles once!!!

Glad you weren't in the PS Audio room when I had control of the music because I played HC from Hell Freezes Over. :lol: Paul didn't have a lot of rock on his server (Laura doesn't do jazz or classical) and couldn't play vinyl, so I looked for something with which I am very familiar so I could have a baseline comparison. No question there are selections that are over-played, but for many of us, those selections enable us to evaluate a room or equipment against very familiar music. In this case, HC was dull and lacked the clarity and tonality I am used to hearing.

Vapor Audio

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #45 on: 15 Oct 2014, 06:47 pm »
Very well said Vinnie!  As you point out, it is totally a 2-way street.  Attendees need to speak up in order to get the experience they want, vendors need to strive to be more accommodating. 

Pez

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #46 on: 15 Oct 2014, 07:06 pm »
Great to see everyone posting in this thread! Especially vendors. Like I said before the ones who care about what us ACers think are already the ones doing it right mostly... Crazy how great this community works to connect vendors and enthusiasts! I'm just glad We have the chance to speak openly and freely about all of this. I'm seeing a lot of great suggestions and things that make me say 'Oh crap! Why didn't I think of that' keep the comments coming! :thumb:

Daedalus Audio

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #47 on: 15 Oct 2014, 07:18 pm »
I can tell you that Pez works harder at RMAF than he does at his real job, that's for sure!

It's funny, people say the shows are getting worse, but for us it's been getting better.  Probably because we outright skip the mainstream audio rooms (Dynaudio, Wilson, TAD, Krell, VAC, VTL, Magico, Levinson, Martin Logan, Rockport, Esoteric, Focal, MBL, etc and etc, ad nauseum).  Once we stopped wasting our time with all that crap, it freed us up to see the smaller, more passionate vendors.  It's been an ongoing process.  Every year we cut away more mainstream fat and as a result, every year the show gets better.

That said, it might be out last year of coverage.  Pez and I have been talking about it quite a bit, calling it quits after this show. Not decided yet, but I wanted to mention that it's a possibility.

Please say it isn't true...  I know it is a lot of work but you two do the best show coverage,  more pics, you don't pull punches and people get a real feel for the show from your writing....  I could go on but since I am inside this game I shouldn't.

I think it would be fair for some contributions to come your way, at least to cover the big dinner and maybe your own hotel room?

Trust me you guys are VERY appreciated!!!! 

Daedalus Audio

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #48 on: 15 Oct 2014, 07:50 pm »
Zesto with Alex.  He said "No".  He did the same thing last year but George said of course and did so.
I'm quite surprised by this comment as I have worked with Alex for several years and have always found him to be a gentleman. Dan, Alex and I are all in agreement about trying to play requests whenever possible, and I have seen Alex often ask people in the room if they have any music they would like to play. I will admit I did turn down one persons request this year as he wanted to play "Rush" with others in the room, I did play other music of his though.... :wink:
At this show Alex was in the CanJam most of the time and only staffed the Zesto room at lunch, and he has no recollection of flat out saying "no", of course they only had vinyl in that room so if someone asked to play a CD he would have to decline.
Bottom line is that most of the vendors I know including Alex, George, Dan, Klaus, Duke, myself and more try to make this all work as pleasantly as possible for everyone and are as accommodating as we can be.
thanks,
Lou

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #49 on: 15 Oct 2014, 07:54 pm »
I would never take request from show goers, it's the worst thing one can do when at a trade show, it's a can of worms and only lead to having to take more request from everyone, who by now feels entitled and offended if not.  If someone is truly interested , Best to  arrange to have a demo with their own selections at an appropriate time.

What seems to be the real issue is the poorly selected music by most, this is where the  stepping up needs to take place ......


-My 2 cents

Tyson

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #50 on: 15 Oct 2014, 07:59 pm »
I would never take request from show goers, it's the worst thing one can do when at a trade show, it's a can of worms and only lead to having to take more request from everyone, who by now feels entitled and offended if not.  If someone is truly interested , Best to  arrange to have a demo with their own selections at an appropriate time.

What seems to be the real issue is the poorly selected music by most, this is where the  stepping up needs to take place ......


-My 2 cents

You'd be right at home in the Wilson room.....

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #51 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:02 pm »
How would you know, i thought you skipped all  mainstream audio rooms  .....  :green:

roscoeiii

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #52 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:03 pm »
I would never take request from show goers, it's the worst thing one can do when at a trade show, it's a can of worms and only lead to having to take more request from everyone, who by now feels entitled and offended if not.  If someone is truly interested , Best to  arrange to have a demo with their own selections at an appropriate time.

What seems to be the real issue is the poorly selected music by most, this is where the  stepping up needs to take place ......


-My 2 cents

As a show goer, I totally disagree. What better way to evaluate gear than by hearing music you are intimately familiar with? Now, of course brought by me in rooms in which I am very interested in the gear. I also think that it is best not to request tracks you bring in a crowded room.

Your 2 cents on this are to my mind a sure way to alienate a show goer, especially those with less conventional tastes in music.

Not clear on why having to accept requests from more and more people is a bad thing. If you are not able to accommodate everyone's requests, this can be handled diplomatically. Perhaps by arranging a later time that they can demo their music. Someone accepts this offer, and you know that they are more likely serious about that gear.

vinyl_lady

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #53 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:05 pm »
I would never take request from show goers, it's the worst thing one can do when at a trade show, it's a can of worms and only lead to having to take more request from everyone, who by now feels entitled and offended if not.  If someone is truly interested , Best to  arrange to have a demo with their own selections at an appropriate time.

What seems to be the real issue is the poorly selected music by most, this is where the  stepping up needs to take place ......


-My 2 cents

Then it is a good thing you are not an exhibitor because IMO an important part of interaction between exhibitors and attendees is allowing attendees to play music with which they are familiar. I can't evaluate a system if all I hear is jazz, classical or "approved" audiophile recordings. All of us have different tastes and likes in music and as long as show goers aren't asking to play the entire 18 minutes of Echoes, their requests to play a single cut or track or a demo disc should be accommodated. If an exhibitor won't play a request, whether my music, on their server or a CD/vinyl they have in the room, then I'm leaving the room and I'm not coming back.

Tyson

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #54 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:10 pm »
Please say it isn't true...  I know it is a lot of work but you two do the best show coverage,  more pics, you don't pull punches and people get a real feel for the show from your writing....  I could go on but since I am inside this game I shouldn't.

I think it would be fair for some contributions to come your way, at least to cover the big dinner and maybe your own hotel room?

Trust me you guys are VERY appreciated!!!! 

For me it's not the money, at all.  Its that it was just plain more fun 3 or 4 years ago when we were just some nobodies that could slip in and out of a room undetected and write whatever the hell we wanted in some obscure forum that no one read.  We've done everything we can to avoid being taken seriously.  A couple of years ago it resulted in job offers from a few magazines (fuck them), and this year it was offers of "reserved time" in rooms and special treatment from vendors (which we turned down, too).  But you see where it's heading, and it makes me pretty damn uncomfortable. 

Tyson

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #55 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:10 pm »
How would you know, i thought you skipped all  mainstream audio rooms  .....  :green:

Haven't always.  It was only hard experience that brought us to that decision.

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #56 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:12 pm »
As a show goer, I totally disagree. What better way to evaluate gear than by hearing music you are intimately familiar with? Now, of course brought by me in rooms in which I am very interested in the gear. I also think that it is best not to request tracks you bring in a crowded room.

Your 2 cents on this are to my mind a sure way to alienate a show goer, especially those with less conventional tastes in music.

Not clear on why having to accept requests from more and more people is a bad thing. If you are not able to accommodate everyone's requests, this can be handled diplomatically. Perhaps by arranging a later time that they can demo their music. Someone accepts this offer, and you know that they are more likely serious about that gear.

OK Devils advocate ,

There's  30 show goers in the room what makes you think they want to hear your selection, why is your selection so special it overrides those of the other 29 and wrong on assumption 2, a serious buyer would want to listen to their own selection with less traffic and noise , so they would gladly arrange and come back , tire kickers on the other hand, not ..!!!

Scenario 3:  Now all 30 wants to hear their special selection, then what, remember  the show is about manufacturers presenting their products in the best possible way they know, their way, what you are requesting is changing act 2 scene 3 at the movies to your choice while other's sit and watch your editing .

far fetched What's next , what if i wanted to hear the system with my own amplifier, should i carry my own amplifier and have it accepted... ?


Any serious buyer would gladly accept private time .....

a.wayne

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Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #57 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:17 pm »
Then it is a good thing you are not an exhibitor because IMO an important part of interaction between exhibitors and attendees is allowing attendees to play music with which they are familiar. I can't evaluate a system if all I hear is jazz, classical or "approved" audiophile recordings. All of us have different tastes and likes in music and as long as show goers aren't asking to play the entire 18 minutes of Echoes, their requests to play a single cut or track or a demo disc should be accommodated. If an exhibitor won't play a request, whether my music, on their server or a CD/vinyl they have in the room, then I'm leaving the room and I'm not coming back.

Was an exhibitor for many years, never had an empty room,  never took request unless private , never had a complaint about music nor selection, good music and sound is always appreciated... We always made special time for those wanting to hear their selection, not going to take 30 request from those narcissistic enuff to be offended that someone didnt and i'm not talking being rudely turned down , being rude is a no no at any event .

By not taking request , no one is offended and you wont offend as many people as if you played some nutter music job and have everyone scatter  :lol: then later read how horrible the sound in the room was because they happened to walk in at that time......

Yep such is the animal ...

vinyl_lady

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #58 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:19 pm »
OK Devils advocate ,

There's  30 show goers in the room what makes you think they want to hear your selection, why is your selection so special it overrides those of the other 29 and wrong on assumption 2, a serious buyer would want to listen to their own selection with less traffic and noise , so they would gladly arrange and come back , tire kickers on the other hand, not ..!!!

Scenario 3:  Now all 30 wants to hear their special selection, then what, remember  the show is about manufacturers presenting their products in the best possible way they know, their way, what you are requesting is changing act 2 scene 3 at the movies to your choice while other's sit and watch your editing .

far fetched What's next , what if i wanted to hear the system with my own amplifier, should i carry my own amplifier and have it accepted... ?


Any serious buyer would gladly accept private time .....

Have you ever been to RMAF, CAF or a similar show? Your posts tell me you are absolutely clueless about what happens in a room at RMAF. 90% of the rooms get crowded with 10 people in the room and could never fit 30. I've been to 10 straight RMAFs plus the last two CAFs and I have never experienced anything close to what you have posted. I make requests all the time and most exhibitors ask me what I would like to hear. It's not a problem.

dminches

Re: An open letter to RMAF Vendors
« Reply #59 on: 15 Oct 2014, 08:19 pm »
I would never take request from show goers, it's the worst thing one can do when at a trade show, it's a can of worms and only lead to having to take more request from everyone, who by now feels entitled and offended if not.  If someone is truly interested , Best to  arrange to have a demo with their own selections at an appropriate time.

What seems to be the real issue is the poorly selected music by most, this is where the  stepping up needs to take place ......


-My 2 cents

Then how would you expect people to get a sense for what the equipment sounds like?  I can only tell when I am hearing something familiar.  Why is it opening a can of worms?  I don't understand that part.