[TomS]

Hi jtwrace,

Early next year, I will be looking into offering Balanced (XLR) LIO INPUTS and LIO OUTPUTS modules as options for those who
will be interfacing with equipment that has BAL in / outs. 

Thanks,

Vinnie

Any chance of the AVC in balanced?

I know 4 Slagleformers take up a lot of space, but that's what I have now.

[Vinnie R.]

Any chance of the AVC in balanced?

I know 4 Slagleformers take up a lot of space, but that's what I have now.

Hi TomS,

No plans for this version - sorry.

Vinnie

[jtwrace]

Hi TomS,

No plans for this version - sorry.

Vinnie

Oh, that's what I was going after. 

[Vinnie R.]

Oh, that's what I was going after.

Hi jtwrace,

It's not that I don't want to help.  I just can't fit two LIO AVC modules (each with two Slagleformers) in the LIO.  Every location
in the LIO is designed for a particular module.  For example, I cannot put the LIO AVC module in the location of the LIO MOSFET Amp.

- Vinnie

[jtwrace]

Hi jtwrace,

It's not that I don't want to help.  I just can't fit two LIO AVC modules (each with two Slagleformers) in the LIO.  Every location
in the LIO is designed for a particular module.  For example, I cannot put the LIO AVC module in the location of the LIO MOSFET Amp.

- Vinnie

Understood.  No biggie. 

[Vinnie R.]

Here is a rendering of LIO's remote handset (which is included with every LIO - no matter the configuration):



POWER ON/OFF = Top left button, with the line pointing to a red LED on the remote that lights up when you press any button.

DISP = Display Mode (what you see on the front panel 3 digital display):  LEVEL, LOAD, FREQ, VOLTS, DARK

VOLUME UP / DOWN (Up and Down arrows)

BALANCE L/R = The left / right arrows

MUTE = center button

SOURCE (Select input source, such as: Analog 1, 2, and 3;  Digital USB, Coax, TOSLINK; Phonostage: MM1, MC2, MC3)

LOAD = If you order the remote cartridge loading (RCL) option for your Phonostage, you can adjust the cartridge loading (255 settings!).

DAC FILTER = Linear Phase, or Minimal Phase digital filter used by the d/a chips

DAC PHASE = Output's phase are 0 degrees, or 180 degrees (inverting).


We are also working on a LIO Remote App for iOS (iPhone, iPad) and Android phones/tablets.  The LIO Remote App will be a FREE download from the Apple App store, or Google Play. They should be ready early next year.  There is a bluetooth module on the front panel that would talk wirelessly to your phone or tablet for this.  More on that later...

Vinnie

[doctorcilantro]

Hi jtwrace,

Early next year, I will be looking into offering Balanced (XLR) LIO INPUTS and LIO OUTPUTS modules as options for those who
will be interfacing with equipment that has BAL in / outs. 

Thanks,

Vinnie

This will be an interesting development. If possible, it would be great to see either the Tortuga LDR or AVC module with balanced input, but also at least a single-ended input to offer flexibility.

[Vinnie R.]

This will be an interesting development. If possible, it would be great to see either the Tortuga LDR or AVC module with balanced input, but also at least a single-ended input to offer flexibility.

Hi doctorcilantro,

I'll keep this all in mind for the future - thanks for your feedback!


UPDATE

LIO Phonostage ---  After doing back and forth between a new JFET MC input stage design, and a pair of step-up transformers (mounted on the board), I decided to go with the step-up transformers for the MC input.  They sound more organic from top to bottom, they offer lower noise, are more dynamic, and just more FUN to listen to at all volume levels.  Highly addictive sounding! 

The problem with the MC step-ups is they cost a lot more money!    For everyone who has already pre-ordered a LIO with the LIO Phonostage, you'll be getting the MC step-up transformers on the board (no extra cost).  For everyone who pre-orders (Dec 1st is the last day), I will also keep the price the same.  After that, the price of the LIO Phonostage module is going to have to increase.  But please trust me on this - you'll be so much happier that I'm going with the step-ups instead of the JFETs for the MC input stage.  There is 'just enough' room to fit them on the board. 

We're still looking at approx. MM gain of 40dB, MC gain of 60dB (+12dB on either if you go with with the LIO Tubestage and set the switch from 0dB to +12dB). 

LIO MOSFET Amp --- In order to keep things running cool when driving 4-ohm speakers hard (and with speaker that dip down ever lower in impedance!), we are adding a small, built-in fan into the heatsink.  It is super-quiet (spec'd at < than 15dB SPL), and it runs ONLY from the external power adapter feed and NOT from the Ultracapacitor bank in use that feeds the audio circuitry.  So it has absolutely no impact on the sound quality because it is 100% electrically isolated from the all audio circuitry, and is also will not be heard inside the unit. 

I just feel better knowing that it will be in use to get a little bit of air flowing through the heatsink - as this makes all the difference.  Surface area is one thing (and of course I'm limited to how large I can use for a heat sink - unless you want it sticking out the side or up through the top panel!), but air flow is another aspect of cooling that we can improve via the fan.  So while you won't hear it - it IS playing an important role at loud volume levels in keeping the speaker amplifier stage running cool all the time, which = longer life and better performance. 


I also want to thank everyone who has placed a LIO Pre-Order so far.  We're getting closer and closer to production and I can't wait to get one in your hands soon! 

More to come!

Vinnie

[brh]

The problem with the MC step-ups is they cost a lot more money!    For everyone who has already pre-ordered a LIO with the LIO Phonostage, you'll be getting the MC step-up transformers on the board (no extra cost).  For everyone who pre-orders (Dec 1st is the last day), I will also keep the price the same.  After that, the price of the LIO Phonostage module is going to have to increase.  But please trust me on this - you'll be so much happier that I'm going with the step-ups instead of the JFETs for the MC input stage.  There is 'just enough' room to fit them on the board. 

This is exciting (well, not the price increase part specifically, you know what I mean!)... any idea what the ultimate cost of this module will be, then? Also, if one wants remote cartridge loading, does that have to be ordered with the phonostage, or is it some kind of daughterboard that can be added later?

I just feel better knowing that it will be in use to get a little bit of air flowing through the heatsink - as this makes all the difference.  Surface area is one thing (and of course I'm limited to how large I can use for a heat sink - unless you want it sticking out the side or up through the top panel!), but air flow is another aspect of cooling that we can improve via the fan.  So while you won't hear it - it IS playing an important role at loud volume levels in keeping the speaker amplifier stage running cool all the time, which = longer life and better performance.

Better safe than sorry - though, I must say, heatsinks sticking up out of the top panel would give LIO a sweet 'street rod' look 

I also want to thank everyone who has placed a LIO Pre-Order so far.  We're getting closer and closer to production and I can't wait to get one in your hands soon! 

Can't wait either!

[Vinnie R.]

This is exciting (well, not the price increase part specifically, you know what I mean!)... any idea what the ultimate cost of this module will be, then? Also, if one wants remote cartridge loading, does that have to be ordered with the phonostage, or is it some kind of daughterboard that can be added later?

Hi brh,

- Not sure yet on what the new cost of the Phonostage module will be after the pre-order period, but it will increase by at least $100.

- If someone wants the remote cartridge loading module later, they can order it later and it's "plug n' play" (just like all the other modules). 
Yes, it is a daughterboard that plugs onto the LIO Phonostage module. 

HEADFI

I am now a site sponsor on Head-Fi.org, and started a thread about LIO over there as well:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/742354/vinnie-rossi-lio-ultracapacitor-powered-modular-hi-fi-system-is-here

If you are a headfi member, please feel free to post there the next time you are on the site.  LIO is equally as revolutionary of a product for headphone listening as it is for home audio listening! 

Thank you!

Vinnie

[Blu99Zoomer]

Hi Vinnie,

I am sure you are correct by placing a fan in the LIO.  But it is a wrinkle that, with all that I read about avoiding fans in audio related equipment, that gives me pause in thinking about upgrading from my sweet, silent Signature 15 amp.  I guess the size of the fan blades would limit the sound.  As you say, it won't be heard in the enclosure.  I know I could order one to hear for myself, right?  Ordered by 12/1, return for free right? LOL.
Thanks for making great equipment Sir!  Keep up the good work.

Blu99Zoomer

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Vinnie,

I am sure you are correct by placing a fan in the LIO.  But it is a wrinkle that, with all that I read about avoiding fans in audio related equipment, that gives me pause in thinking about upgrading from my sweet, silent Signature 15 amp.  I guess the size of the fan blades would limit the sound.  As you say, it won't be heard in the enclosure.

Hi Blu99,

Thanks for posting your concern.  Fans could be troublesome with regards to:

1) mechanical noise
2) electrical noise

In the case of the LIO Amp, there will be NO such issues because:

1) The fan I'll be using is very small (1.5" x 1.5"), nearly silent, and not spinning all that fast, as it does not need to.  So compared to your Sig 15, you won't hear any difference in that regard (but you definitely will with regards to the sound that comes out of your speakers  . 

2) No electrical noise will be introduced into the system because it is 100% isolated via LIO's Ultracapacitor Power Supply ("PURE-DC-4EVR").
The Ultracapacitor bank that is providing power to the audio circuitry is not connected to this fan.  The fan is only powered from the external power adapter (which also feeds the Ultracapitor bank that is charging and NOT connected to the audio circuit).

  I know I could order one to hear for myself, right?  Ordered by 12/1, return for free right? LOL.
Thanks for making great equipment Sir!  Keep up the good work.

Exactly - if you pre-order by 12/1 and decide within 30 days that you want to return it, I refund you for the shipping BOTH ways (no matter where in the world you live).  You don't lose a cent.

Vinnie

[HenryK]

Hi,

I can't see apart from cost, why a noiseless pipe system "a la" graphics cards in pc's can't be used, as fan seems low tech solution, in another wise high tech Lio.

[Vinnie R.]

Hi,

I can't see apart from cost, why a noiseless pipe system "a la" graphics cards in pc's can't be used, as fan seems low tech solution, in another wise high tech Lio.

Hi Henry,

It has nothing to do with cost - it is more of an issue of space.  If a heat pipe was used, where would it connect to?  Below the amplifier module is the backplane (motherboard), so it is not easy to get to the aluminum bottom panel.  The side panel right next to the amp module and is not metal.  The top panel (aluminum) is designed to be opened/closed, so I do not want to connect to that. 

The simplest (K.I.S.S.) and most effective solution in this case appears to be the fan, and I can't find any drawbacks to using it.  There is also no need here for a high tech solution.  It is a very low-tech problem (heat) that is easily and simply met with a small, quiet-running fan that will not add audible noise, nor will it have any influence on the power feeding the audio circuitry.  And it's so small and cute looking. 

Vinnie

[HenryK]

Hi Vinnie,

I have to agree with the K.I.S.S. principle.

My comparison of PC with amplifier was hasty, as not only does my fanless graphics card sit in a box full of other fans, but it takes up two slots so heat pipes can transfer heat outside PC case.

Keep up the good work Vinnie.

[Blu99Zoomer]

Hi Vinnie,

Another layman question please.  How does your LIO DAC play with JRiver 18, 19, and or 20? Perhaps more appropriately, do software engineers include automatic recognition of DAC capabilities and automatic alignment/realignment with upgrades of software?  Thanks.

Blu99Zoomer

[nnck]

Vinnie-
Not sure if this has been covered in detail but I haven't found a good discussion.

Can you go into the benefits of getting the remote loading option for the phono stage? How would one adjust the loading without it?

Do you thnk this option is really geared toward someone who is continuously changing carts? Once someone has dialed in a preference for a particular setup, is there much need to change the loading all that often?

Just looking for more info and perhaps ideas and suggestions about how you envision people using this option.

[CarterB]

Vinnie-
Just looking for more info and perhaps ideas and suggestions about how you envision people using this option.

Good questions. In the same vein, is there much need for this advanced tuning with a MM cart? I'm also assuming adding the RCL option to the phono stage is as easy as any other upgrade. Correct?

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Vinnie,

Another layman question please.  How does your LIO DAC play with JRiver 18, 19, and or 20? Perhaps more appropriately, do software engineers include automatic recognition of DAC capabilities and automatic alignment/realignment with upgrades of software?  Thanks.

Blu99Zoomer

Hi Blu99Zoomer,

LIO DSD/PCM Dac should play fine with all versions of JRiver, but I have not tested them all. 

Regarding software auto-recognizing the dac capabilities, this depends on the software.  I know Audirvana shows on the front panel info such as the bit rate, sample rate, Integer Mode (if the dac can play it).  I'm not sure about auto upgrades, but there should be an option to 'check for updates' and you can check with the company to see what is new with each version. 

Can you go into the benefits of getting the remote loading option for the phono stage? How would one adjust the loading without it?

Hi nnck,

With the LIO RCL board (remote cartridge loading), you get 255 different MC cartridge load settings that you can adjust via the LIO remote handset (and upcoming smart phono / tablet App). 

This is John Chapman's (Bent Audio's) design that we are scaling into the LIO Phonostage.  It is very useful because it lets you fine-tune the sound as you listen to music, and then saving the loading value that sounds best to you.

If you do not go with the LIO RCL module, the LIO Phonostage has DIP switches that give you 16 load settings.

Do you thnk this option is really geared toward someone who is continuously changing carts? Once someone has dialed in a preference for a particular setup, is there much need to change the loading all that often?

It's definitely suited for one who likes to play with different cartridges, or likes to tinker with load settings to fine-tune their sound.  It gives you a lot more load settings than other phonostages, and being able to make the adjustments on the fly while you listen is the best way to do it! 

Good questions. In the same vein, is there much need for this advanced tuning with a MM cart? I'm also assuming adding the RCL option to the phono stage is as easy as any other upgrade. Correct?

Hi Carter,

Not much need if you are using a standard MM cartridge that wants the typical 47K loading.

Adding the RCL later on is easy - you just plug it down into the LIO Phonostage and the LIO automatically recognizes that it is installed and lets you play! 

Vinnie

[Ultralight]

Is this the thread to give suggestions for future features or is there another thread?  The possibilities seem immense with this approach.  Just amazing.

Thanks,
UL