[OzarkTom]

For example, the Crown XLS 1500 will not sound any better than the NAD or the D-Sonic M3 regardless how many hours it is on. The XLS is not designed for hi-fi so it will not sound like hi-fi audio no matter how long. Beside, the manufacturer should make it good right out of the box so it can compete with others. Adding "sound much better after few hundreds hours" on the manual box only makes the buyers hang on to it and hope for the best to come

The Crown takes at least 200 hours to break-in or it will sound very harsh. Also, if you turn the amp off, it takes at least three hours to start sounding smooth again. Then if you cryo the amp, another 200 hours to break-in. This amp beats my Job 225 amp in my system. I had the tour Ncores here for about a week, and they sounded very harsh no matter what I did.

[lynhnn]

...I had the tour Ncores here for about a week, and they sounded very harsh no matter what I did.

you mean the XLS sounded very harsh?

[OzarkTom]

you mean the XLS sounded very harsh?

Ncores did, but I have very bad AC problems. The Job and XLS does not.

[mjosef]

Maybe those NCores were 'broken'. 

[OzarkTom]

Maybe those NCores were 'broken'. 

That is what I asked jTwrace.

[cab]

Maybe if they had been triple cryroed, mass loaded with 2000 pounds of depleted uranium, placed on an active air suspension on top of stillpoints with gel footers and fed with palladium power cords resting on cryroed smoked bamboo elevators they would have sounded "awesome"....

[OzarkTom]

Maybe if they had been triple cryroed, mass loaded with 2000 pounds of depleted uranium, placed on an active air suspension on top of stillpoints with gel footers and fed with palladium power cords resting on cryroed smoked bamboo elevators they would have sounded "awesome"....

 

[Phil]

No, they don't, and it might not be a good idea to do so, as you will shorten their life.

standby for the NAD is <0.5 W and they are vented on top (from what I can see in the photos).  So, perhaps you can have both an amp ready to play + very low heat + very low power consumption.  That is one of the things I like about how the amp is designed (my DAC is similar - standby but not fully powered on, ready to play and not pulling too much power).   Not that I think this will end the debate….   

[pablolie]

standby for the NAD is <0.5 W and they are vented on top (from what I can see in the photos).  So, perhaps you can have both an amp ready to play + very low heat + very low power consumption.  That is one of the things I like about how the amp is designed (my DAC is similar - standby but not fully powered on, ready to play and not pulling too much power).   Not that I think this will end the debate…. 

 

[pablolie]

Ncores did, but I have very bad AC problems. The Job and XLS does not.

from the specs the XLS should not be remotely close, but hey, it depends on the entire chain's compatibility and personal preference. i have heard class D designs before, and until the M22 i was not a fan. in the sub $1k category there was the M1PWR from Musical Fidelity, and i use it in my weekend cabin paired with Totem Dreamcatchers. the combo sounds very satisfying, the the amp sounded horrible paired with my main speakers (boosted the bass way too much, but it works great with the little dreamcatchers). i got a NAD D7050 for a friend and it also sounds quite good paired with Dreamcatchers, more disciplined. the M22 is in a different category altogether though, it can only be compared with far more expensive amplifiers as far as i am concerned.

[Julf]

standby for the NAD is <0.5 W and they are vented on top (from what I can see in the photos).  So, perhaps you can have both an amp ready to play + very low heat + very low power consumption.  That is one of the things I like about how the amp is designed (my DAC is similar - standby but not fully powered on, ready to play and not pulling too much power).   Not that I think this will end the debate…. 

I never physically cut the power (except in a bad thunderstorm) of my nc400 based system. I use the smps standby.

[pablolie]

the SMPS raises a (possibly naive) question - should the M22 be connected to one of the digital outputs on a power supply? or the amplifier one? or does it make no difference?

one thing that amazes me about the M22 is how cool it runs. i have had it playing music in the back, and in an hour it has not warmed up a single degree it seems.

[rollo]

D/emag Disc .....?

  Yes either the Ayre/Cardas or Esoteric CDs. Very affective.

charles

[rollo]

the SMPS raises a (possibly naive) question - should the M22 be connected to one of the digital outputs on a power supply? or the amplifier one? or does it make no difference?

one thing that amazes me about the M22 is how cool it runs. i have had it playing music in the back, and in an hour it has not warmed up a single degree it seems.

   Try both and find out.

charles

[pablolie]

   Try both and find out.

my question was more of a theoretic nature i am extremely pleased with my current little system, and when that is the case i tend to tuck it all away quite neatly. hence it is a lot of work to switch things and experiment. i just carry a list in my head of things i may play around with next time i revisit the configuration and want to experiment, which typically is no more than a bi-yearly occasion for me.

i have decided i will eventually try to run the M22 without the power conditioner, and then perhaps with the conditioner in different configurations. but for now i'd rather just listen to music, i spent enough time playing around with gear back in December.

[Phil]

Early impressions (right out of the box):

normally I don't post until either my ears or the equipment is fully broken-in (depending upon your view).  I'm pleasantly surprised the sound isn't bad at all.  It does sound like an Ncore DIY at the moment.  Bass is fuller but lumpy.  Will see how it progresses. 

The standby switch doesn't bother me (as it has some posters) but I absolutely hate the speaker binding posts.  They are those kind with plastic all around them and I couldn't find a way to use them with my spades (too narrow).  Had to use banana adapters.  Uggghhh.  Maybe I'm missing something (long day), but the binding posts seem at the wrong angle with the plastic protector piece.  The spade should be able to fit the flat part of the post. 

Pablolie, are you using spades?   

[Phil]

I never physically cut the power (except in a bad thunderstorm) of my nc400 based system. I use the smps standby.

Julf,
Do you know the power consumption during standby?  By standby do you mean that the speaker connectors are muted but the amp is using full idle power (about 40 W)?  Just curious. 

[pablolie]

hi phil - yes i use banana plugs. i connected them straight from the back into the connector, ignoring those  angled sideways connectors that seem to be a weird british excentricity (the Creek Power amp had them too).

power consumption on standby is negligible. when on and not playing music it is about 34W. it goes up from there as you increase volume, but i say as i play music at a normal level it is about 50W. about 30W less than the Creek Destiny, all in all, when driving an identical load and identical levels, only the Creek got HOT.

[Phil]

hi phil - yes i use banana plugs. i connected them straight from the back into the connector, ignoring those  angled sideways connectors that seem to be a weird british excentricity (the Creek Power amp had them too).

power consumption on standby is negligible. when on and not playing music it is about 34W. it goes up from there as you increase volume, but i say as i play music at a normal level it is about 50W. about 30W less than the Creek Destiny, all in all, when driving an identical load and identical levels, only the Creek got HOT.

Thank you.  It does make sense that the NAD stays cool.  Large internal heat sinks + ventilation on the sides and top.  This should result in long life.  The bass does seem to be fuller, deeper and more nuanced already.  There seem to be some very big caps inside (looking through top vents).  From the NAD description it appears the power supply is custom NAD and a different approach than simply SMPS.  Amazed it sounds as good as it does so soon.  That has NEVER happened with my other equipment.  So maybe the break-in is my ears, which are already tuned to the Ncore sound 

[pablolie]

... ventilation on the sides ..

wow. you are right, on the sides too. i own the thing and had never noticed

i am actually extremely sure it will win several "gear of the year" awards and "audiophile A" awards, once the press starts to crank out the reviews. i think it a phenomenal piece of gear. like i said, it beats my E306v, which helped me win a legendary showdown against a ridiculously expensive yet haphazardly system put together by an arrogant a## that frequented a wine bar i went to (if he'd been nice i'd never challenged the dude, but i knew from the attitude he didn't know anything other than write a check) - and i always thought the E306v would be all the amp i'd ever want, and it was way over twice the price of the M22 over 14 years ago. in general it is an amazing time to put an audio system together for under 10k. they perform at insane levels i f the gear is mixed right and matches.

and personally, i think in another few years active speakers will undoubtedly rule the world unless those using separates match them very, very skillfully. i auditioned some that were extremely awesome. but with this combo i think i am extremely well served for now, and utterly amazed at the performance. i have seen some of this thread blast NAD for charging $3k for it, but coming from where i am (i am an EE, but haven't soldered anything in anger in over 20 years) the M22 is a bargain - it delivered an enhancement i honestly didn't expect to hear (and i have been in this hobby for more years than i care to admit, if i tell you guys i stole my Dad's Tandberg CC player when in university you may get the notion), matched against components multiple the price. another anecdote - a friend of mine who used to own a very expensive Burmester rig prior to his divorce (the only expensive system i honestly have heard that rated above my old -yes, pre-divorce, too- system), he was at my place listening a few weeks ago, and he went off and got the same DAC and amp (but other speakers), and claims the system beats his old system which he bitterly missed, but no more. at 20% the price, and i believe that these days. amazing time to listen to music at home.