NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400

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jaxwired

Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #40 on: 24 Sep 2014, 11:48 pm »
The M22 has greater headroom than the NC400/SMPS600 (according to NAD), has both balanced XLR and single-ended RCA inputs, a 12V trigger and a 3 year warranty.

The casework looks nicer than the majority of the DIY nCore projects that I've seen posted here, and has a very nice vent detail.

A nice effort and it seems to be competitively priced in the marketplace.

Would love to see a photo of the internals.

Steve

Well said, and totally agree. And resale value of the NAD will be much better than a DIY amp.


Julf

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Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #42 on: 17 Nov 2014, 04:24 pm »
Seems NAD themselves say it is a nc400: NAD Masters Series M22 – Hypex nCore for the rest of us
« Last Edit: 18 Nov 2014, 09:32 am by Julf »

drubin

Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #43 on: 17 Nov 2014, 04:28 pm »
Bad link

RUR

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Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #44 on: 17 Nov 2014, 05:27 pm »
Seems NAD themselves say it is a nc400: NAD Masters Series M22 – Hypex nCore for the rest of us
I dunno, they continue to send mixed messages.

Quote
The M22 is using the latest nCore™ amplifier technology licensed from Hypex to provide a nearly ideal amplifier with distortion below measurement, ultra-high damping factor, and unconditional stability with any speaker. Tight, detailed sound with amazing control and transparency gets the best performance available. With nCore, Hypex has refined their UcD concept to new levels of perfection by improving the modulator for more accurate feedback subtraction and PWM generation. The all-discrete driver and output stage have also been improved for lower open-loop THD as well as lower idling losses, normally conflicting requirements with conventional IC driver circuitry. An added control loop incorporating an integrator with adaptive clipping enables 20dB more feedback to be used across the audio band because of its extremely low-phase shift resulting in a dramatic reduction in distortion across the audio band. This is added to UcD’s already amazing characteristics of load invariance and high current capability, common characteristics of great-sounding amplifiers.
http://nadelectronics.com/products/masters-series/M22-Stereo-Power-Amplifier

To me, this still sounds like they're using UcD's, which incorporate "nCore amplifier technology".

Occam

Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #45 on: 17 Nov 2014, 07:08 pm »
http://nadelectronics.com/products/masters-series/M22-Stereo-Power-Amplifier
Quote
> Hybrid Digital Amplification

The M22 is using the latest nCore™ amplifier technology licensed from Hypex to provide a nearly ideal amplifier with distortion below measurement, ultra-high damping factor, and unconditional stability with any speaker. Tight, detailed sound with amazing control and transparency gets the best performance available. With nCore, Hypex has refined their UcD concept to new levels of perfection by improving the modulator for more accurate feedback subtraction and PWM generation. The all-discrete driver and output stage have also been improved for lower open-loop THD as well as lower idling losses, normally conflicting requirements with conventional IC driver circuitry. An added control loop incorporating an integrator with adaptive clipping enables 20dB more feedback to be used across the audio band because of its extremely low-phase shift resulting in a dramatic reduction in distortion across the audio band. This is added to UcD’s already amazing characteristics of load invariance and high current capability, common characteristics of great-sounding amplifiers.

From the Ncore White Paper  www.hypex.nl/docs/papers/ncore%20wp.pdf
Quote
1 Synopsis
Ncore technology combines the stability of UcD
with improved load-independence, lower distortion
and lower output impedance. The approach is multi-
pronged:
- A mathematically exact understanding of self oscillation.
This allows optimization of large signal
performance.
- Improved comparator circuitry insures that
actual behaviour matches the theoretical model
as closely as possible.
- New gate drive circuitry improves open-loop
distortion at moderate signal levels while significantly
reducing idle losses.
-  A new control loop ups loop gain by 20dB across
the full audio range without sacrificing stability.

Amplifiers using all four of the above will be marketed
under the name Ncore. Amplifiers using only
the first three will still be sold under the UcD brand

even though their internals no longer resemble that
of the well-known 2001 circuit and their performance
is already a clear step up.

Please note the bolded [by me] portions of both the Nad and Hypex literature. The Hypex paper would seem to indicate the Nad modules are indeed Ncores.

FWIW

audio.bill

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Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #46 on: 17 Nov 2014, 09:34 pm »
After reading all three pages of speculation on this thread, one question begs to be asked. Has anyone here actually listened to this amp yet? I just heard it at a local dealer along with the matching preamp and PSB Imagine T2 speakers and have to say I was very impressed! It has an inherent musicality to its sound that I haven't heard from many other Class D designs, with the exception of some that sell for many multiples of its price. I'm not telling anyone to rush out and buy one, but from what I heard I think it would be worth an audition if you have the opportunity to hear it for yourself.  :thumb: We are now returning to your regularly scheduled programming...

drubin

Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #47 on: 17 Nov 2014, 09:38 pm »
What a buzzkill! C'mon Bill, don't interrupt our speculation with your damned reality-based observations. :wink:

After reading all three pages of speculation on this thread, one question begs to be asked. Has anyone here actually listened to this amp yet? I just heard it at a local dealer along with the matching preamp and PSB Imagine T2 speakers and have to say I was very impressed! It has an inherent musicality to its sound that I haven't heard from many other Class D designs, with the exception of some that sell for many multiples of its price. I'm not telling anyone to rush out and buy one, but from what I heard I think it would be worth an audition if you have the opportunity to hear it for yourself.  :thumb: We are now returning to your regularly scheduled programming...

OzarkTom

Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #48 on: 17 Nov 2014, 09:45 pm »
My buddy REx sure enjoys his NAD D3020 with the  KEF LS50's, NAD is still very serious about their audio quality.

greenkiwi

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Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #49 on: 18 Nov 2014, 05:50 am »
I would think that there is a good chance that it is roughly based on the nc400, probably with modifications to help NAD mass produce it, or to reduce costs here or there.  For instance, moving to a rectangular packaging probably helped them waste less space inside their amp module. 

Julf

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Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #50 on: 18 Nov 2014, 09:33 am »

OzarkTom

Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #51 on: 18 Nov 2014, 09:46 am »
Seems NAD themselves say it is a nc400: NAD Masters Series M22 – Hypex nCore for the rest of us

According to the article, NAD is getting almost twice the power as the Ncores.


« Last Edit: 18 Nov 2014, 11:49 am by OzarkTom »

srb

Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #52 on: 18 Nov 2014, 11:41 am »
Here is the spec sheet.

file:///C:/Users/csilky57/Downloads/M22%20Stereo%20Power%20Amplifier%20-%20Data%20Sheet.pdf

Your link is to the temporary download location for user csilky57 on your computer's hard drive.  ;)

The actual link is

http://nadelectronics.com/download.php?140908111314-14-031_NAD_M22_Data_Sheet_F.pdf|M22%20Stereo%20Power%20Amplifier%20-%20Data%20Sheet

but because it uses a PHP script to download the document, it isn't parsed properly by the forum software when directly pasted in the reply, stopping when it sees the | symbol.  However a proper link is created when using the Hyperlink button to create the link.

NAD M22 Power Amplifier - Data Sheet

Steve

OzarkTom

Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #53 on: 18 Nov 2014, 11:48 am »
Your link is to the temporary download location for user csilky57 on your computer's hard drive.  ;)

The actual link is

http://nadelectronics.com/download.php?140908111314-14-031_NAD_M22_Data_Sheet_F.pdf|M22%20Stereo%20Power%20Amplifier%20-%20Data%20Sheet

but because it uses a PHP script to download the document, it isn't parsed properly by the forum software when directly pasted in the reply, stopping when it sees the | symbol.  However a proper link is created when using the Hyperlink button to create the link.

NAD M22 Power Amplifier - Data Sheet

Steve

Thanks Steve, I am just a computer dummy here. :duh:

Julf

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Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #54 on: 18 Nov 2014, 12:26 pm »
According to the article, NAD is getting almost twice the power as the Ncores.

What they say is

Quote
“In the Hypex 400 module continuous power is 200W @8 and 400W @4.  In our implementation it is 250W @ 8/4 controlled by Erik Edvardsen’s precision clipper circuit.  The benefit of this approach is the ability to offer much more short term or dynamic power where we have 350W @8 and 600W @4.  This makes the power in actual use seem greater than the spec – in typical NAD tradition!”

So they talk about "short term, dynamic power", unlike the rated power Hypex specifies. Hypex actually states 550 W into 4 ohm for 90 s even for a stereo configuration with 2 nc400's sharing a smps600, so rather close to the NAD "short term" power.

drubin

Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #55 on: 18 Nov 2014, 04:22 pm »
Another interesting new Hypex-based product is the Merrill Audio Taranis at $2500.
http://merrillaudio.net/taranis.html

Hopefully someone around here will get a chance to listen to these newcomers in direct comparison to our DIY efforts.

OzarkTom

Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #56 on: 18 Nov 2014, 07:24 pm »
Another interesting new Hypex-based product is the Merrill Audio Taranis at $2500.
http://merrillaudio.net/taranis.html

Hopefully someone around here will get a chance to listen to these newcomers in direct comparison to our DIY efforts.

Interesting, that one is said to be using the NC1200 modules.

jtwrace

Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #57 on: 18 Nov 2014, 07:35 pm »
It doesn't use the NC1200's.  That is easily seen by the wattage.  I'm sure it's using the UcD modules.

audio.bill

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Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #58 on: 18 Nov 2014, 07:39 pm »
Interesting, that one is said to be using the NC1200 modules.
Oh no, here we go again... It does NOT state that it uses the NC1200 modules. To quote from the product announcement it uses: "modules 'based upon NC1200 technology' with which Merrill’s using only the output stage. This is not a publicly listed NCore Module and is just the output stage."

OzarkTom

Re: NAD M22 Stereo Power Amplifier-NC400
« Reply #59 on: 18 Nov 2014, 09:01 pm »
Oh no, here we go again... It does NOT state that it uses the NC1200 modules. To quote from the product announcement it uses: "modules 'based upon NC1200 technology' with which Merrill’s using only the output stage. This is not a publicly listed NCore Module and is just the output stage."

Oops, my mistake, but don't have a cow, man.