[dBe]

OK, there is another thread on AC about SMPS that is trying to go sideways.  I thought I would open this up to see if there are any interested parties out there.

Mac Minis and power.

Whatcha got and why?

[Hugh]

Dave,

I've been using a MacMini at shows in stock power form so I am both patiently and anxiously to read more about this topic.

[iluzun]

I've used & rolled caps in a little single outlet conditioner on a 2010 mini w/8g ram both wirelessly & currently
via ethernet to a Modwright Transporter.  The mini is stock fed via a G-raid & FireWire.  I've always been easily able to hear the sonic signature of whatever caps r in the conditioner & whatever power cords r used going in to the C7.  The caps I've used in the conditioner include JPX Premium, Sonicap Platinum, Multicaps, Mundorf SGO, Jupiter copper foil, CuTf V-caps, & Dueland Cast.  Prs. Of .22s neutral to ground on orange hospital grade & Oyaide R-0s.  On the whole houses 'general' circuit & any of the six dedicated 10g lines the differences r easily notable.

I really don't understand someone claiming not to hear a difference of a Mac mini on a conditioner. 

In fact I'll make it easy, put the Duelands on the mini and the g-raid, put the CuTfs on the amps.  Dac can go either way.  You're done.  If you want 'more' depth/colour vs resolution impact use a 3.3 SGO w/ the v-caps. 

You'll feel as if you got 'new' speakers...

I know batteries can be very good.  So can very expensive well built power supplies.  I owned a 'stack' of Naim
gear & paid dearly to claw my way up the power supply mountain w/ it's split rail 24v yada yada...
Copper foil caps, on great outlets, neutral to ground following a CMC r very cheap in comparison, & just as good. 

Just don't tell the X/Y safety nazis.

[dBe]

I've used & rolled caps in a little single outlet conditioner on a 2010 mini w/8g ram both wirelessly & currently
via ethernet to a Modwright Transporter.  The mini is stock fed via a G-raid & FireWire.  I've always been easily able to hear the sonic signature of whatever caps r in the conditioner & whatever power cords r used going in to the C7.  The caps I've used in the conditioner include JPX Premium, Sonicap Platinum, Multicaps, Mundorf SGO, Jupiter copper foil, CuTf V-caps, & Dueland Cast.  Prs. Of .22s neutral to ground on orange hospital grade & Oyaide R-0s.  On the whole houses 'general' circuit & any of the six dedicated 10g lines the differences r easily notable.

I really don't understand someone claiming not to hear a difference of a Mac mini on a conditioner. 

In fact I'll make it easy, put the Duelands on the mini and the g-raid, put the CuTfs on the amps.  Dac can go either way.  You're done.  If you want 'more' depth/colour vs resolution impact use a 3.3 SGO w/ the v-caps. 

You'll feel as if you got 'new' speakers...

I know batteries can be very good.  So can very expensive well built power supplies.  I owned a 'stack' of Naim
gear & paid dearly to claw my way up the power supply mountain w/ it's split rail 24v yada yada...
Copper foil caps, on great outlets, neutral to ground following a CMC r very cheap in comparison, & just as good. 

Just don't tell the X/Y safety nazis.

it is not that there aren't differences.  Different is only different.  Better is better and that lies with the individual.  Some listeners will strive for strict reality in timbre, others want to shape the character of the recording one way or the other.  Preferences... It's all good.

[paul79]

I have a Mac Mini, late 2009 that comes with an external brick SMPS.... I bought a Paul Hynes SR5-18v5 supply to replace it, and this made a hell of an improvement. Most notably in dynamics, but everything improved along with this.

I am no longer using the Mini. Now using a dedicated server with NAS and Router, and this is better. Allot better. I also have Hynes supplies running the NAS and Router, and this was a real ear opener here also. EXTREME dynamics and 3D rendering I have never previously heard digital do.

I have zero SMPS in my system. DAC, Server, NAS, Router, Preamp, Amps, all linear powered. Why? Because I have yet to hear anything with a SMPS sound as transparent as what I have now.

Oh, and I use a MiniBuss for the music network (NAS/Router), and UberBuss for the rest of the system.

[iluzun]

Simply a confirmation on the bi-polar nature of the C-7 plug orientation.  Nice to learn something new.
Thanx. 

All things being equal, which offers better performance, the external linear power supplies or batteries?

[dBe]

Simply a confirmation on the bi-polar nature of the C-7 plug orientation.  Nice to learn something new.
Thanx. 

All things being equal, which offers better performance, the external linear power supplies or batteries?

Loaded question.  I am in the battery camp for a bunch of reasons.  Sonics, certainly.  Cost, reliability, multiple pieces of battery powered gear, all add up to preferring the battery solution.  Linears, like most things when well done, sound good.  I just will not pay the prices of the available linear options. When you need one for every piece of digital gear in the system at $$$ a pop, I'm out.  Plus, batteries are easy.  Not a lot of super soot power cables for batteries.

YMMV

[iluzun]

Had a beautiful Dodd preamp for a couple yrs.  Best looking piece of gear I've ever owned, beautiful.

Ran a pr. of 6922s w/battery power.  Very nice! 

Gary makes some very nice equipment. 

The pre had to utilize pretty large caps though.  3.3ufs.  Sounded great w/Mundorf SGOs.

I still like that cap.  It may be 'spotlit', but it is so 'seductive'.  Vocals are so nice & super soundstage depth.
My first 'oil' cap.

Dueland just takes it up a notch w/ more focus, resolution, body.  More palpability. Never got to truly them on the Dodd but near perfect on a digital source.  Interestingly, for me not necessesarily the dac, but definitely the Mac mini. 

So as for outboard power supplies I've looked at, they rely on filter caps to 'season' the output.

Better or just different? 

I understand that getting rid of the snps will provide sonic benefits, so it's nice to know there is another level
yet.  But conditioners can profoundly effect, even what one gets from a very meager power source.

Batteries would certainly be attractive to avoid the cost associated w/power cords.  But I've a bunch about as that 'rabbity hole' was breached several years ago.

Regards, & best of luck 'off the grid'.  It's a 'good thing'....

[dBe]

So as for outboard power supplies I've looked at, they rely on filter caps to 'season' the output.

Better or just different? 

I understand that getting rid of the snps will provide sonic benefits, so it's nice to know there is another level
yet.  But conditioners can profoundly effect, even what one gets from a very meager power source.

+1 on everything here.

I view the power in/power out of an audio or video system as a big transducer.  Everything: from the power grid to the room interactions are all part of a system that can be addressed on every level to turn energy that doesn't sound good... at all... and turn it into energy that can let one have a great emotional experience.

Cool.

[paul79]

+2 here. Everything I have plugged into the UberBuss has improved. SMPS, Amps, Preamp, Linear Supplies... It all starts at the wall. Better the main power, the better everything else sounds. Period.

[xsb7244]

I saw this.  If you know who John Swenson is, here is his linear PSU.

http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/10009/linear-available-mini-music-servers?page=1&scrollTo=135017

[lokie]

I have an "09 Mini with the external brick. I have done nothing to the power. I have been on the fence for several reasons but mostly just think what's out there is too expensive.

Paul Hynes has the most interesting product but I am not going to do business where someone wants money now for a product to be delivered in the future. Maybe a week or two is OK but months and years- no way.

I also keep thinking that something better (like a reasonably priced server) is going to come along... but nothing yet.

I might be enticed with a well thought out power supply in the $500 or less range. Beyond that, I'll just keep enjoying what I have and see what the future brings.

[dBe]

I have an "09 Mini with the external brick. I have done nothing to the power. I have been on the fence for several reasons but mostly just think what's out there is too expensive.

Paul Hynes has the most interesting product but I am not going to do business where someone wants money now for a product to be delivered in the future. Maybe a week or two is OK but months and years- no way.

I also keep thinking that something better (like a reasonably priced server) is going to come along... but nothing yet.

I might be enticed with a well thought out power supply in the $500 or less range. Beyond that, I'll just keep enjoying what I have and see what the future brings.

There are a lot of products out there.  Why? Because individuals with a love for this obsession/hobby/business (not necessarily in that order) and produce incredibly high quality, limited production personalized products.  Generally speaking most of these "companies" are one to two man operations that work very hard to meet the demand, keep the quality first and foremost and keep prices to a tolerable level.  When a man like Paul Hynes has a year to year and a half backlog it is because his products are "that good" and he is working as quickly as possible to meet that demand.  Trust me: ain't nobody in this niche market getting rich.  That is the realm of Sydney Harmon.

Reasonable priced servers are available.  They just don't really make it in SQ.  That is whay guys like Paul Hynes, Eric Hider, Pete @ Triode and others are in business - to try to provide SQ that we, and hopefully others, believe in.

A dedicted power supply can be built for $500.00 or so.  One that meets all of your needs.  Problem is that is about the cost of components, packaging tme and shipping.  Not a lot of "feed the family" built into that price.

'Course I could always just tell you that my superdupergollygeewhiz $499.99 power supply will do whatever.  Thing is I have a conscience and rely upon referrals for business. 

[lokie]

When a man like Paul Hynes has a year to year and a half backlog it is because his products are "that good" and he is working as quickly as possible to meet that demand.

I don't doubt that,  I'm just not willing to do it.

Reasonable priced servers are available.  They just don't really make it in SQ.

Uh? Which means they don't exist , right?

A dedicated power supply can be built for $500.00 or so.  One that meets all of your needs.  Problem is that is about the cost of components, packaging tme and shipping.  Not a lot of "feed the family" built into that price.

Well, I suppose that's why there isn't any out there on the market and why I haven't done anything to my Mini's power supply. We all have to make choices with  our priorities, budgets, etc. The manufacturers have their thresholds and the consumer has his. Sometimes they meet and sometimes they don't.

[dBe]

Uh? Which means they don't exist , right?

Well, I suppose that's why there isn't any out there on the market and why I haven't done anything to my Mini's power supply. We all have to make choices with  our priorities, budgets, etc. The manufacturers have their thresholds and the consumer has his. Sometimes they meet and sometimes they don't.

Nope, doesn't mean they don't exist at all.  As a matter of fact, when you fing one PLEASE post about it here.  I and my customers are all about getting the SQ possible without having a bunch'o'bucks 

Sure thing about the budget.  I have spent a lot of my life as a budget audiophile (audiophool) and that is what has prompted me to spread the love.  Quite frankly speaking, most of my products compare very favoribly to other 3 -10 times the price.  I just can't bring my self to do that... yet. 

[genjamon]

What about that Keces linear power supply?  It's less than $500 I think, low noise, and can even be dual voltage.  I would have gone with one of those already if it weren't for diving down the rabbit hole of cabling between power supply and Mac Mini.  I've had enough really significant benefits to different after market power cables that I'm a believer, especially into digital.  If I'm going to the trouble of removing my Mac Mini internal SMPS and re-wiring a linear power supply, I want to make sure and have a well-designed noise-rejecting power cable between external linear power supply and internal Mac Mini connection - otherwise that all that noise from internal Mac Mini circuits will muck with the power supply quality I just spent a bunch of money cleaning up!

It's a very deep rabbit hole...

[lokie]

Dave,

I think you mentioned to me that you didn't have much luck w battery type power supplies with MM's.

Care to elaborate?

[dBe]

Dave,

I think you mentioned to me that you didn't have much luck w battery type power supplies with MM's.

Care to elaborate?

Uhmmm, that is what I use, so, perhaps you misunderstood me or vice versa.  I use AGMs... do not like (personal preference) and don't care for the hassle of the LiFePO4 batteries out there... just too finicky for me.

Please refresh me, 'cuz I'm confused. 

[barrows]

I am certain that one could produce a battery supply which would work very, very well with a Mini, or any server for that matter.
I use a battery supply in my custom server, and it is a far better way to go when doen right than any AC based supply (no matter how good).  The great thing about using a battery based supply is that it isolates the server's noise (and all MoBos are noisy) from the AC.  Prior to using a battery supply, no matter what I did (server powered by linear supply, that linear supply connected to AC line through even a true AC regenerator) I still got noise fed back onto the AC line by the server: All I had to do was monitor noise on the power cable going into my DAC while I booted the server, it was awful.
Not all battery supplies are going to be created equal though.  You need low impedance for good digital supplies.  The only suitable batteries are going to be LiFePO4s, and you are going to want to run them down to only about half capacity before re-charging, so you would need a really big pack to get decent run time.  Depending on the voltage range acceptable to the Mini you may also need pre regulation between the battery pack and the Mini.  To keep the impedance really low you would want to use a really good discrete regulation circuit (perhaps the AMB), and high capacity battery pack.  Also, you would want to keep the regulation circuit as close to the power input pins of the Mini as possible.

[dBe]

I am certain that one could produce a battery supply which would work very, very well with a Mini, or any server for that matter.
I use a battery supply in my custom server, and it is a far better way to go when doen right than any AC based supply (no matter how good).  The great thing about using a battery based supply is that it isolates the server's noise (and all MoBos are noisy) from the AC.  Prior to using a battery supply, no matter what I did (server powered by linear supply, that linear supply connected to AC line through even a true AC regenerator) I still got noise fed back onto the AC line by the server: All I had to do was monitor noise on the power cable going into my DAC while I booted the server, it was awful.
Not all battery supplies are going to be created equal though.  You need low impedance for good digital supplies.  The only suitable batteries are going to be LiFePO4s, and you are going to want to run them down to only about half capacity before re-charging, so you would need a really big pack to get decent run time.  Depending on the voltage range acceptable to the Mini you may also need pre regulation between the battery pack and the Mini.  To keep the impedance really low you would want to use a really good discrete regulation circuit (perhaps the AMB), and high capacity battery pack.  Also, you would want to keep the regulation circuit as close to the power input pins of the Mini as possible.

I can't agree more that output impedance is king when it comes to battery audio.  That was the reason I did the BatteryBUSS.  On straight AGM battery power the rise times (attack) of instruments was missing.  Especially plectrum and mallet/stick instruments.

The Mini is happy at a range of 12.0VDC - 14.4VDC.  Below 12V and it becomes that schizophrenic cousin at Thanksgiving.

Getting HDD/SSD on battery or killer linear is a big thing, too.  A clean data stream is a thing of beauty.