[rif]

I thought this the most appropriate circle to post.

I'm looking to buy my first telescope to use with my 8 year old son.  I've just begun my research so any input is appreciated.

I live in the suburbs just outside of a large city so there will be a lot of light pollution.

I'm looking for something that is:
Light
Inexpensive (around $400)
Easy to use
Motorized/computer controlled
Can see the basics-Saturn, Jupiter, mars, the moon

I don't mind going used wouldn't know what to look for, both model and condition

[charmerci]

Go to Astronomy magazine on-line.

http://www.astronomy.com/observing/product-reviews/2014/07/2014-star-products

You'll have to sign up for 5 free articles to look at this.

Astronomy is such narrow interest that I think that it's pretty hard to buy a bad telescope.

[Guy 13]

Hi rif.
A long time ago I bought a cheap but powerful (1000X) Hama brand telescope.
I could see the crater on the moon, the ring of Saturn and some other planets.
Of course the quality was not so good,
but that was for me enough to want to buy a better telescope later on.
I've contacted a specialized store (Not Walmart) and they told me it would be better to go
with an astronomer's club so learn from experienced astronomers
and see if I would really like the hobby before investing.
Well, I never bought anything, because I came to live on planet Vietnam.
But one day when I go back to my home country Canada,
I will be retired and that will be a nice hobby for a retired person.
By the way, seeing the ring of Saturn and the moon crater is something really special.
There is a zillion thing out there...

Guy 13

This post of mine might not be of great help for you, but it sure won't harm...

[GT Audio Works]

Hi Rif,
 I am a member of a NJ astronomy club and have a lot of experience in the hobby.
I would suggest looking online for an astronomy club in your area. Many of them have public nights where you can view thru members scopes. Also try to attend a star party..a gathering of fellow astronomers in a dark sky location...a camping type event.
There is one coming soon in northern central PA. The Black Forest star party starting on 8/22  bfsp.org. A very remote dark sky location.
This is the largest event of its kind in this eastern area, over 350 people show up with all types of scopes they would be glad to show to you.
A great inexpensive scope would be an 8" dobsonian...A Newtonian reflector mounted on a simple alt az base. You can find  a new one on the many online sites telescope.com etc. or a good used scope can be found on astromart or ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Orion-8945-SkyQuest-XT8-Classic-Dobsonian-Telescope-FREE-SHIPPING-/271561570930?pt=US_Telescopes&hash=item3f3a54ba72
An 8" is a good size, it meets your price parameters and it has enough aperture to get a good view of what's out there, and is small enough to put in the car or store in the garage or a closet.
Try to avoid the temptation of getting a computerized scope...this is the cause of many newbies loosing interest in the hobby. They are complex to set up, expensive and take away the challenge of learning the sky which should be the basis of the hobby. A basic scope, a dark location, a basic book or laptop with a free star atlas program and maybe a pair of binoculars is all you need for you and your son to experience this great hobby. The fun in spending time together locating an object in the sky by star-hopping is much more rewarding than pushing a button and have the scope do all the work for you.
By all means stay away from any small refractor on a crappy mount that shows all kinds of photographic wonders of the universe on the box and says magnifies up to 500x. These are readily available on ebay or Walmart and will surely become a dust collector in a corner of your house.
feel free to PM me with and questions....Greg

[dwk]

I dabble a bit in astro, although not nearly as much as I'd like.

One good resource is the forum at www.cloudynights.com - extremely active and very helpful.

Having said that, I strongly suspect that the advice that you'll get is pretty much what GT.A.W says above.  If you can stretch your budget a bit to an 8" Dobsonian it is overwhelmingly the most recommended path for beginners - it really is something that can support a lifetime of observing and isn't much above your budget. A 6" should come in under your budget, but the jump to an 8" gets you a lot more aperture/brightness and is worth it if possible. (alternatively, comb craigslist for a used 8" Dob)

Realistically, the idea of a computerized 'go-to' mount seems fantastic but in practice for beginners isn't as beneficial as you might think.
- alignment can take 10+ minutes, and you have to do it before you can use the computer to find anything. unless you can leave it set up outside between viewing sessions, this by itself can be annoying enough to squelch a lot of enthusiasm.
- alignment on the cheaper scopes isn't always all that accurate and you end up not looking at what you wanted anyway
- the main celestial objects that you're likely to look at as a beginner really aren't that hard to find with a good program/guide.

[*Scotty*]

The same scope directly from ORION is $349 with free shipping.
http://www.telescope.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=102005&gclid=CIXL_pHokMACFUVo7Aod8lIAFQ
Scotty

[rif]

Wow, I'm a little overwhelmed, but please keep the info coming! Its going to take some time for me to digest.

I was looking for a computerized one primarily for one reason - this will be a bonding adventure for me and my 8 year old son. I don't know if he'll have the patience to watch me operate it manually.

I found this on craigslist, an orion astroview 6 eq with lots of accessories for $375

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/pho/4572584716.html

[*Scotty*]

The scope you listed is not a GoTo computerized telescope. It looks to be a fine telescope but it has a more complex equatorial mount. This type of mount will work nicely but I would not recommend it over the dobsonian mounted Orion XT8 for someone just starting out in the hobby.
Computer aided telescopes are more expensive than your $400 budget will allow.
The computer aided version of the Orion XT8 is $639 new.
http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/GoTo-Computerized-Telescopes/Orion-SkyQuest-XT8i-IntelliScope-Dobsonian-Telescope/pc/-1/c/1/sc/15/p/102012.uts
This telescope has what is called in the hobby "digital setting circles" and it is pushed to the location in the sky as indicated by the digital readout in order place the desired celestial object in the eyepiece.
Scotty

[GT Audio Works]

As others have mentioned , For beginners,the issue with goto scopes is they are not as easy to use as the name implies..the need to have exact polar and star alignment is critical to have the scope work as planed. This means being able to find the north celestial pole and also know a few alignment stars.  There are scopes that do it for you with gps but not for $400.
As I found with my kids the journey in finding the star was as much fun as the destination. You show them a few of the major constellations in the book and get a cheap laser pointer and have them find the constellations in the sky then gradually star hopping to the object is fun. The thrill of finding the orion nebula or the Andromeda galaxy for the first time is a lot of fun for the both of you.
As Scotty ahs pointed out there is a third route with a push to scope or digital setting circles, through a scope data base you select an object and the scope tells you where to point it by hand.
I am not interested in computers and technology so much, so I enjoy simple observing. But others find interest in the technology aspect of the hobby, so you may enjoy a goto. Guess it depends on your interests. But for $400, honestly I cant think of a goto scope that would not be a waste of money.
                                  Greg

[GT Audio Works]

Wow, I'm a little overwhelmed, but please keep the info coming! Its going to take some time for me to digest.

I was looking for a computerized one primarily for one reason - this will be a bonding adventure for me and my 8 year old son. I don't know if he'll have the patience to watch me operate it manually.

I found this on craigslist, an orion astroview 6 eq with lots of accessories for $375

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/pho/4572584716.html

BTW the scope on craigslist is not a go to and is not motorized..it is a basic GEM mount with manual RA and DEC tracking knobs..and from the looks of it , way overpriced. definitely not what you want.

[Speedskater]

Somehow I would think that there are a large number of not in use, pre-owned scopes out there.  The trick would be finding them.  Maybe empty- nesters and estate sales.

[*Scotty*]

One of the best ways of getting a line on a used scope is to get in contact with a local astronomy group. People pursuing this hobby suffer from upgraditis just like audiophiles, in this case it is called aperture envy. It caused me to go from an 8inch SCT to a 15in Dob. OUCH!
There may well be a telescope sitting someones closet or garage that is unused as it has been displaced by something MUCH larger. Some groups also have loaner scopes that you can borrow.
Scotty

[SoCalWJS]

Lots of great info!

All that I would add is find out if you have a local retailer or club. There is a good chance you can find a good deal on a lightly used one. Many people either trade up if they get hooked, or sell cheap if it doesn't really suit them.

Also, purchase something that is small/light enough to move around and store when not in use. Some of these things get pretty big and awkward to move, especially by yourself.

[rif]

OK, I've done some more research, but not everything yet.  I looked at the Orion 8" dobsonian, it looks very nice, but is really too large and heavy. Even the smaller 6" is too large. Nearly 4ft tall and 40lbs!

I am hesitant about joining a club or attending any events right now, but would be a lot of fun later on.

I contacted Orion/telescope.com and they recommend a Star blast 90 AZ refractor with barlow and kit (kit would be good for my son). The also suggested a skyglow filter to help with light pollution.  I don't know about the scope - it doesn't look too substantial.

http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/Refractor-Telescopes/Refractor-Telescopes-for-Beginners/Orion-StarBlast-90mm-AZ-Telescope-amp-Beginner-Barlow-Kit/pc/1/c/10/sc/331/p/106874.uts

[brooklyn]

Hi Rif, there is a lot of great information here that other member mentioned.
Having taken an astronomy course years ago, I also read a book called
Left Turn at Orion. (link below) A nice book for beginners.

These is also a link for a beginners computerized telescope below.

This sounds like a very enjoyable hobby for you and your kid.
Have fun..

http://www.telescope.com/Turn-Left-at-Orion-Astronomy-Book/p/51315.uts?keyword=books

http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/GoTo-Computerized-Telescopes/Orion-StarSeeker-III-90mm-GoTo-Mak-Cass-Telescope/pc/-1/c/1/sc/15/p/106368.uts

[GT Audio Works]

OK, I've done some more research, but not everything yet.  I looked at the Orion 8" dobsonian, it looks very nice, but is really too large and heavy. Even the smaller 6" is too large. Nearly 4ft tall and 40lbs!

I am hesitant about joining a club or attending any events right now, but would be a lot of fun later on.

I contacted Orion/telescope.com and they recommend a Star blast 90 AZ refractor with barlow and kit (kit would be good for my son). The also suggested a skyglow filter to help with light pollution.  I don't know about the scope - it doesn't look too substantial.

http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/Refractor-Telescopes/Refractor-Telescopes-for-Beginners/Orion-StarBlast-90mm-AZ-Telescope-amp-Beginner-Barlow-Kit/pc/1/c/10/sc/331/p/106874.uts

This is your average inexpensive telescope, nothing great, flimsy feel and look. But if you want light weight , portability, and cost within your requirements. This fits the bill. But It will not be the easiest to use for a child, the design of the inexpensive mount will make the view very shaky in all but the most delicate touch hands. This scope will also suffer from chromatic aberration ( purple color fringe around the moon). And at 90mm aperture, everything but the moon and planets will appear very dim.
May I suggest this Orion 6" dob http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/Reflector-Telescopes/Reflector-Telescopes-with-Altazimuth-Mounts/Orion-StarBlast-6-Astro-Reflector-Telescope/pc/1/c/11/sc/342/p/102011.uts?refineByCategoryId=342
It has much better light gathering than a 90mm refractor,so images will be brighter and more satisfying.
It uses a mirror to magnify light so it does not suffer from this chromatic issue. The mount is short and sturdy with the ability to dial in the correct amount of drag for anxious and indelicate little hands.
It is small and light 23 lbs and most importantly its design will allow your young son to operate it easily and intuitively.
Its designed for use on a table top, but setting it on stool, milk crate or cinder block will make 360 degree viewing much easier.
Viewing under light polluted skies is unsatisfying with any scope, That skyglow filter will not really help...so try to make trip to darker skies when the moon is not up, you and your son will find its worth the trip. Also the fully assembled scope will fit in a car and be ready to use under a dark sky..instead of fiddling with an unassembled scope and mount in the dark.

They also make the same scope with the digital push to feature so you can find things easier, for not too much more money.
http://www.telescope.com/Orion-StarBlast-6i-IntelliScope-Reflector-Telescope/p/102026.uts
Greg

[Guy 13]

This is your average inexpensive telescope, nothing great, flimsy feel and look. But if you want light weight , portability, and cost within your requirements. This fits the bill. But It will not be the easiest to use for a child, the design of the inexpensive mount will make the view very shaky in all but the most delicate touch hands. This scope will also suffer from chromatic aberration ( purple color fringe around the moon). And at 90mm aperture, everything but the moon and planets will appear very dim.
May I suggest this Orion 6" dob http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/Reflector-Telescopes/Reflector-Telescopes-with-Altazimuth-Mounts/Orion-StarBlast-6-Astro-Reflector-Telescope/pc/1/c/11/sc/342/p/102011.uts?refineByCategoryId=342
It has much better light gathering than a 90mm refractor,so images will be brighter and more satisfying.
It uses a mirror to magnify light so it does not suffer from this chromatic issue. The mount is short and sturdy with the ability to dial in the correct amount of drag for anxious and indelicate little hands.
It is small and light 23 lbs and most importantly its design will allow your young son to operate it easily and intuitively.
Its designed for use on a table top, but setting it on stool, milk crate or cinder block will make 360 degree viewing much easier.
Viewing under light polluted skies is unsatisfying with any scope, That skyglow filter will not really help...so try to make trip to darker skies when the moon is not up, you and your son will find its worth the trip.
They also make the same scope with the digital push to feature so you can find things easier, for not too much more money.
http://www.telescope.com/Orion-StarBlast-6i-IntelliScope-Reflector-Telescope/p/102026.uts

Hi GT,
your post is also very interesting for me,
as I want one day, preferable before I kick the bucket,
to buy one telescope like that one you are suggesting.
I had a big cheap 1000X Hama telescope that came
with a super cheap tripod
and everything I watched was fuzzy,
what made matters worst,
I live two streets from an express highway with big 40 tons trucks
hitting pot holes.
Since I import and distribute Manfrotto professional heavy duty tripods,
I borrowed one from our showroom and it improved a lot the images.
I live 15 kilometers from downtown Saigon, therefore,
the images cannot be at their best.
In ideal conditions, I would have kept the (Hama brand) telescope,
but I gave it away to a friend, less the expensive Manfrotto tripod,
that was worth 2X more than the price of the telescope.
One day, I will have one the same or similar to what you are suggesting.
Thanks.

Guy 13
Sorry for more or less hi-jacking this topic.
   

[GT Audio Works]

For those of you interested in what is out there, you can get a real time look on your computer.
Stellarium is a great free program. http://stellarium.org/
With it you can see what celestial objects are visible from your location and time zone.
Its pretty easy to use once you enter your parameters.
For instance if you go ahead to August 18th an hour or so before sunrise you will see Venus and Jupiter at their closest conjunction in 2014.

[rif]

OK I made a purchase. That doesn't mean I won't keep posting questions. As with most things there were compromises. Knowing my personality I could have gone weeks researching without a purchase, so I closed my eyes and jumped into the pool.

I bought an xt6i used from amazon $385. This is the large 6" dobsonian mentioned above. BUT it has the push to computer. It is a discontinued model from Orion, but it's identical to their 8" and 10" models. I have a feeling that when amazon lists it as used, it'll be an open box new.

Thanks to everyone, I'll sure to be in touch, sooner than later. Next up accessories - barlow lenses, moon filters, carrying bags- everything I forgot to include in the budget.

[*Scotty*]

You might want to consider purchasing this book to help you get started in the Astronomy hobby. It is an excellent book for beginners and is a very useful aid to learning the night sky. NightWatch: A Practical Guide to Viewing the Universe 
http://www.amazon.com/NightWatch-Practical-Guide-Viewing-Universe/dp/155407147X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1408397674&sr=1-1&keywords=terence+dickinson
Scotty