[Bones]

Hello all!

I've been considering and thinking about speakers for my HT for a long time.. never really considering DIY.  I have been saving and really would have no qualms about spending 6-8k to put together a modest set of B&W speakers for my home.  It appears that I could be just as happy with sound quality by building my own for MUCH less!

I've been reading more and more about the 1801's and they really seem like great speakers, especially for the money.  I do have a few questions though..

Any opinions of how well these speakers would function in a Home Theater?  I'm sure a subwoofer would need to be made, and I'd take recommendations in that area as well.

I will be setting up my HT in one side of my basement, it is a very open arangement so I'm concerned that the small size of the speakers will pose a problem.

Is there any comparisons to B&W speakers?  I'm fairly familar with them and would really be able to grasp how good these are if anyone could say something like "they are similar to the 803's or watever"

I hope these questions are not too lame.. I'm just getting started in thiking about DIY speakers and am VERY excited at the prospects... just in the last day I went from purchasing all my stuff to now building the speakers, as well as amps. hehe

Thanks for any help!

Jamie

[Darren Thomas]

Hi Bones,

Welcome to the forum. I am a home theater enthusiast and could give you a little input. I think the 1801's would make a wonderful home theater speaker. They have decent spl and are truly a wonderful sounding speaker, in fact they are my current favorite for music. I was a fan of B&W also until I got into DIY. You can obtain that level of quality very easily from a number of kit manufacturers... The Ellis 1801 has extremely high quality components. Much higher in quality than most commercial speakers. I hesitate to say all commercial speakers only because there is always an exception somewhere. The only thing you might have a problem with when considering the 1801's for home theater is if you intend to use 5 of them. You can easily use a 5th 1801 for the center but it may not be convenient for you as it isn't the typical mtm horizontal center. The 1801's were designed for music without compromise so there is no "center speaker" option. The 1801 would work just fine though as a matched center in my opinion. Are there better choices for home theater? Very possibly. It all depends on what you are after. How much music listening do you intend to do?

My comments are from my personal experience as well as listening to Dave speak and others speak on these topics.

Darren

[Bones]

Thanks for the welcome and your thoughts!

Firstly I must say that I found your site yesterday and your work is amazing!  Your attention to detail and finish is truly beautiful!  My father has a woodshop that I've been working in.. and I'll be using your pics as a benchmark.  We've never worked with vaneers so that will be a challenge, but I think it will be fun.

To answer your question about how much music I would listen to.. I would say 75% HT and 25% music.

I'm open to any suggestions for other DIY speakers as well.. So far I really like the size and look of the 1801.  I don't know much of what else is out there as alternatives.. AV1+?  I'm sure the 1801's would need a good subwoofer to really make the movies awesome.. that is also in the plan for sure.  I really like what you did with the Tempest sub.. I have a HUGE basement so that might work as well for me.

I hadn't really thought of using another 1801 as a center.. that just might work.  I'd really like to see a center channel version of the 1801 appear.  that would be perfect! -hint hint-

Jamie

[Darren Thomas]

Hi bones,

Thanks for the kudos on my work.  

There are a number of options available to you. I highly recommend the 1801's for music and think they would make a great home theater speaker but you can always do a combination of speakers, use the 1801's as mains and other speakers for center and surrounds. My personal preference is to always use 5 or more of the exact same speaker for home theater but that isn't always convenient.

As far as a sub goes you'd be surprised at how well the 1801's handle the lower octaves. They sound quite nice without a sub and I don't miss it with music but for home theater I always recommend a sub. The tactile qualities of home theater require much air movement

If'n ya can't feel it you ain't got it up loud enough  

There are a ton of options which is half the fun

Darren

[randog]

Bones,

If you follow some recent threads you will see I am in a similar position except that my primary goal is 2-channel audio with HT a distant 2nd. I am having Darren build me up a pair of 1801's with 3 AV-1's (not +'s) for surrounds. If my primary concern was HT I would certainly have come up with another angle to look for a more seamless integration amongst all of the speakers and it would most likely not have been 5 1801's although I did toy with that thought because of the importance of 2-channel audio to me. I plan to move the odd number AV-1 around from front center to rear center to see how it sounds. It may not match well as a center channel for the 1801's in which case I will either phantom the 1801's or find a better match. In hindsight it may have been smarter for me to have 2 pairs of 1801's made and phantom the center one anyway and have a perfectly matched set for both HT and for top-notch audio A&B, but I actually didn't think of that until I just wrote this. DOH!

My decision was based on different feedback from both Darren and Dave (appreciated, btw) as well as others here and my subsequent digestion of the info and how well it would work for my application.  

Anyway, if you decide on the 1801's you may want to get further input from those who have them as to whether they will be too revealing of your HT sources (amp, pre and dvdp) to get the most satisfaction of a system dedicated primarily to HT. They are purported to be very accurate and unforgiving.

Best of luck,
Randog

[jackman]

Randog,

I own the 1801's and, although I love their sound and use them for HT and music (95% music), they really benefit from a high quality source.  Dave mentions this on his site (something about being fed steak and not hamburger...) and he is not kidding.  The 1801's teamed up with some mid-fi or low-fi receivers and a low quality CDP will probably not be very enjoyable for music OR HT.   If you team the 1801's with a good amp (I like my Van Alstine) and a good source, they will sound very good.  Team them up with a poor source and insufficient or harsh sounding power and you will not be happy.  

Since getting the 1801's, I have spent much less time using my system for movies and much more time listening to music.  They can sound very good in the right setup.  Just don't think of powering them with a low watt or low-fi receiver.

J

[Val]

I agree with Jackman, revealing high-quality speakers like the 1801 require components of similar quality, especially smooth sounding and high current, something you won't find at the low end.

With the caveat that I don't do HT, why is a center channel needed when you have front speakers that image extremely well, like 1801s? Andrew Marshall of Audio Ideas Guide, somebody I respect as a reviewer, always talks against it unless the room is extremely big.

[randog]

[Thump553]

Bones:  Like you I am a total newbie to DIY, and well, I'm 20 years out of date on hi-fi as well.  I'm also inclined to build the 1801s but am not as inclined to HT as you.  Before you make your decision go to the ellisaudio website.  Somewhere on the site there is a fascinating blurb about his experience with phantom center speakers, that they work as well as a rell center.

[jackman]

Randog, we're on the same page.  I was just agreeing with your statements.  If I was going to run the speakers with a receiver, I'd probably take a hard look at the AV1's from GR.  They are great sounding and seem less particular about front end and source.  If you plan to upgrade to a great system, with very good amp/pre/CDP, the Ellis are very hard to beat and, IMO, impossible to beat at the kit price.  

The reason I post this is because it would be easy to be disappointed with the Ellis if the rest of your system is not up to their quality standard.  I was just listening to them and really enjoy the sound!

J

[Bones]

Thanks for the discussion thus far... very good info and things to consider.

My long term goal is to definetly have good quality gear.. I'm running all Sony ES at the moment and plan on building a couple AKSA 100w amps (3ch and 2ch) to power my HT.  I'm not sure what I'll do for processing.. I've got a brother in law who can get Denon CHEAP so I might see if they have anything good for HT.  I've also considered building my own pre as well.. It's all up in the air! hehe

From what I've learned so far, I think I'd be best served to go with AV1+ for surrounds and center.. and now I just need to decide if I want 5 AV1+ or to use 1801's for the front as was mentioned before.. decisions decisions!

At any rate, I REALLY look foreward to building all my speakers (and sub) and amps.. I can hardly wait to get started!

Keep the info started!

Any opinions on subs and room size?  I was thinking maybe building the Tempest Sub.. my theater room will be basically the whole basement of my house.  It's going to be a very open layout unfortunately with the HT on one end of the basement.  LOL.. my house is a year old and I already want something different!

[Darren Thomas]

Denon makes very good HT processors. You might want to also check out Onkyo. I chose the Onkyo TX DS 777 for mine a couple years back but it is pretty much a toss-up for me. I think Denon would be an excellent choice for you since you can get a great deal. The AKSA amps are a perfect mate to the 1801's. I've heard Hughs amps powering the 1801's many times and they just sound better and better. Hard decision ahead of you eh?

Darren

[Bones]

I was originall leaning towards giving Pioneer elite a try, or Adcom.. but with the info that my B-in-law can get stuff for basically cost, I'd insane to not look at Denon even though I know next nothing about them other than that they are good.

Yep, I do have some tough decisions.. but either way I know it will be a blast to make my speakers and amps myself.. the wife will appreciate the savings as well.  Now to get approval to start the project before the basement is finished....

[David Ellis]

Bones,

I have some fair comments to offer.  Your questions are good.

"Any opinions of how well these speakers would function in a Home Theater? "

I think they would do just fine.  Marsh makes a good head-unit, and the Anthem isn't bad.  I am too cheap for this stuff though.  I use the 1801's in stereo with movies.  Getting good surround sound equipment is commensurately expensive.  I believe that 6 channels of sound can be equal in quality to 2 channels of sound.  But, this equivalent quality will cost about 3x$.

Also, Dennis Murphy recently redesigned the MB-OW1 with the same phase and slope as the 1801.  He claims they are darn close from 100hz up.  These would make an excellent center/surround speaker.

"I'm sure a subwoofer would need to be made, and I'd take recommendations in that area as well. "

There are some comments  about the SCC300 subwoofer in this circle.  Do a search and you will find my comments.  IMO, the SCC300 is a killer driver!  Eventually I might be selling it in some configuration.  At this point my subjective comments on the driver will cease.

Also, many guys think a subwoofer is "necessary" with the 1801.  None of these guys who think it is "necessary" has heard the 1801.  While it is true that there are a few guys who use a subwoofer, there are many more who don't.  I have a subwoofer, but haven't used it for months.  The intent of the 1801 was killer midrange with good bass to 40hz.  It does this quite well.  40hz is below the lowest fundamental for any common instrument.  The bass guitar has a low of 41.5hz.

"Is there any comparisons to B&W speakers? I'm fairly familar with them and would really be able to grasp how good these are if anyone could say something like "they are similar to the 803's or watever" "

Yes,  Bill Hojnowski managed to a/b the 1801 with the Nautilus signature.  His comments are at :

http://www.audioreview.com/Main,Speaker/Ellis,Audio,1801/PRD_125773_1594crx.aspx

Hopefully my comments are helpful.

Dave

[Nikko]

My Soundesign stereo, that I bought at Sears a few years ago, sounds fabulous with my 1801s. You just have to crank the crank the volume, bass and treble controls as far as they'll go. There's a little distortion but it only adds to the sound, particularly when I'm listening to Judast Priest.

[randog]

heh. Go fish.

 

Randog

[randog]

Also, Dennis Murphy recently redesigned the MB-OW1 with the same phase and slope as the 1801. He claims they are darn close from 100hz up. These would make an excellent center/surround speaker.

Ooch. How did I miss this? It looks like I could have had a seamless integration for my HT/2-channel system after all had I used the MB-OW1's in place of the AV-1's, eh?

Aw well... (no second guessing, no second guessing, no second guessing).  

Randy

[David Ellis]

Ooch. How did I miss this? It looks like I could have had a seamless integration for my HT/2-channel system after all had I used the MB-OW1's in place of the AV-1's, eh?

Well, Dennis seems to hear something with slop and phase.  I have never tried it.  Danny's AV-1 is a good speaker and will be fine for HT.

Dave