Big 7 - rolling 45 glass

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shawbros3

Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« on: 27 Jul 2014, 08:52 pm »
Here’s just one perspective on rolling 45’s in the Big 7, so take it with a grain of salt.  My Big 7 can run either the 45 or 2a3 tube.  But I much prefer the 45 tube over the 2a3 in all my electronics.  I just think the 45 tube has much better tone and sounds more natural and organic, with the 2a3 only better in the details department.  Those that prefer a more solid state presentation will probably side with the EML 45 over the NOS 45 variants. 

EML
-   more detailed
-   more dynamic
-   tighter more focused bass and bigger sound
-   super quick transients and attack

National Union 45 ST and RCA Globes 245
-   less mechanical (doesn’t mean the EML sounds dry or robotic)
-   more liquid, fluid and organic
-   more natural sounding

I tried Tung-sol and RCA Cunningham 45 ST’s as well, but preferred the National Unions within this tube type.

At the end of the day, it’s what your personal preference leans towards.  The 45 ST’s aren’t expensive relative to the EML’s, so I highly recommend getting a spare set in case the EML’s die or just to roll in for a completely different perspective.

Side note: I owned the Yamamoto A-08s (45 SET) and preferred the Globes and NU 45’s in that amp.  But I think I am in the minority.  Most folks that I have talked to or commented in audio threads all favor the EML over the NOS 45 types.  I think if you like NOS tubes (like Mullards, Telefunkens, etc…) in your other gear then the NOS45’s are a must audition in the Big 7.  I like the EML 45 and I liked it in my Yamamoto amp as well, so I will keep it for the Big 7, partly because it’s a very reliable tube and will last a long time.

The Big 7 is a stellar DAC and keeps me deeply connected to the music like never before :thumb:

Happy Listening!

guf

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #1 on: 27 Jul 2014, 09:19 pm »
Thanks for the update and suggestions. Always looking for new stuff to try out.

shawbros3

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #2 on: 27 Jul 2014, 09:41 pm »
Hey Guf,

I hope to hear your horn system soon, very curious to know how the Big 7 adds to an effortless horn sound.  I think you would like the NOS 45's in the Big 7, they are magical with vocals, at least to my ears.  I'll leave a pair for you to try when I'm able to make it up North.  Are you going to the Cailifornia Audio Show in a couple of weeks?

guf

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #3 on: 27 Jul 2014, 10:13 pm »
Yeah i'd love to try a pair out. It'll be cool to meet up any time. Just let me know.

i'll go over to CAS to show some support for a local event. I'm flexible if you are gonna be there let me know when and i go that day.

worldcat

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #4 on: 3 Aug 2014, 12:25 am »
Anyone use Sophia Tubes?

wisnon

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #5 on: 16 Sep 2014, 09:38 am »
Anybody else with tube rolling opinions for the L7?

Here is a link to what User211 says (post 53):
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?32378-Lampizator-Level-7&p=572601#post572601

wisnon

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #6 on: 16 Sep 2014, 11:07 am »
A comprehensive L7 tube opinion set from a knowledgeable friend:


UK Marconi 2A3 are very good tubes, on the top with Fivre and modern EML,
especially Mesh one. The rest is a matter of taste. One need to find out what
does he like more in his own system. My personal Favorite are EML 45 Mesh
and old 45 RCA globe triodes. Didn't try 101D in L7 yet as I do not have unit
with this implementation on the board here.


Original WE cost today is crazy. You are right. Even if they will sound a bit
better or so than both 45's mentioned above, given existing satisfaction and
money wise factor I wouldn't go for them.

I have one WE 101D and still hunting for another for reasonable money, so
maybe one day I will tell you ;)  Originally I bought them for my amplifiers, before Lukasz even introduced them in L7/B7 circuit.


I do not agree with your comments on Psvane WE replicas being no better than the stock ones. I have a pair here and they are not the same like any other chinese 101 clones. In fact they do look exactly the same as my we101d inside to be honest. Doesn't sound
as good however, sadly.  But they are much better than ANY stock chinese 101d.

I tried in amps TJ mesh and solid plate, both porcelain and bakelit base,
psvane 3 types, and WE101D replicas are significantly better than all
others.

I agree with point that they are too expensive however - that is the true.
============================================
one more thing to clarify

I was comparing Psvane clones of WE 101D in Tektron amps.
To my ears WE101D clones are not playing in the same leaque as Globe rca 45.

Listening to voice /instruments on one channel on my horns only ( due to lack of 2nd original WE101D ) ranking looks like this:

WE 101D original comes 1st with no doubt.

RCA UX-245 / Cunningham CX 345 , Acurus blue 145 in this exact order comes 2nd.

Difference is easy to live with, hence I am not desperate to spend thousand for
a matching tube .


Here a bit off subject,  WE 205D (original - courtesy of my friend) to me are
closer to 101D in overall presentation than to 45 , but still differences are not to die for ;)


Chinese 101D WE clones comes last , but this is tough competition here, so bear that in mind.
If I should put the rest of Chinese 101 here into the imaginative description of distance

and compare to tour de France ;) then all the rest comes anywhere between 30 - 39 ;-)

So you can see the difference more clear with that kind of explanation.

I hope that you found it useful and it help you to not throw your $$$
out for nothing.

CAVEAT: Again , in other circuits / systems than mine things may look different.
Also I do not know how my taste compares to yours, so it is more like
a few guide lines not the universal wisdom ;)
« Last Edit: 2 Oct 2014, 10:09 am by wisnon »

wisnon

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #7 on: 16 Sep 2014, 12:18 pm »
One final factoid.

Lukasz just confirmed to me that the 101d tube will work on ALL Big7/Level 7 dacs as a drop in replacement for the 45 triodes! The circuit is robust enough to accept both.

Only the 2A3 setup is different and unless there is a switch to throw, 45s and 101ds wont work in the 2A3 setup.

wisnon


wisnon

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #9 on: 21 Sep 2014, 07:58 pm »
The ultimate Big 7 tube roll?

http://www.emissionlabs.com/html/club/45-Globe.htm

Unobtanium though...

ALRAINBOW

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 64
Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #10 on: 22 Sep 2014, 11:27 pm »
Has anyone tried a ananversary globe 45 from EML ?

Al

shawbros3

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #11 on: 30 Sep 2014, 07:07 pm »
Has anyone tried a ananversary globe 45 from EML ?

Al

I do like the EML 45 Globes in the Big 7.  It's easier on the ears and more refined sounding than the EML solid plates.  In my system the EML Globes land in the middle between the vintage 245/345 Globes and the EML solid plates.  At this level, it all comes down to personal taste.  Give them a try and report back!

wisnon

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #12 on: 30 Sep 2014, 10:05 pm »
I do like the EML 45 Globes in the Big 7.  It's easier on the ears and more refined sounding than the EML solid plates.  In my system the EML Globes land in the middle between the vintage 245/345 Globes and the EML solid plates.  At this level, it all comes down to personal taste.  Give them a try and report back!

Are you talking about these? http://www.emissionlabs.com/html/club/45-Globe.htm

Or do you speak of the Mesh plate EML ST 45? Or is there even a 4th option fronm EML?

shawbros3

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #13 on: 30 Sep 2014, 10:37 pm »
Are you talking about these? http://www.emissionlabs.com/html/club/45-Globe.htm

Or do you speak of the Mesh plate EML ST 45? Or is there even a 4th option fronm EML?

Yes, I have the same ones :thumb:  They are no longer made because they were too fragile to withstand harsh shipping.

wisnon

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #14 on: 30 Sep 2014, 11:07 pm »
Super cool!

I only know of 2 people with these.

You sneaky guy…you have found the "holy grail" Hahahaha! Congrats.

Have you tried the Cunningham cx-345 globes…not the STs, the Globes?

shawbros3

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #15 on: 1 Oct 2014, 03:11 am »
Super cool!

I only know of 2 people with these.

You sneaky guy…you have found the "holy grail" Hahahaha! Congrats.

Have you tried the Cunningham cx-345 globes…not the STs, the Globes?

Sadly enough, I do have the 345 Cunningham Globes.  It sounds similar to the RCA 245 Globes, maybe a bit more vocal bloom.  The 45 is my favorite tube of all time, so I have a healthy stash just in case I ever manage to setup a good horn system.  So I've tried basically every 45 tube in the Big 7.  Like I said, all the tubes bring their own strengths to the table and the tube of choice will come down to personal tastes.  Don't sleep on the National Union ST 45's, those have magic as well and are very affordable.

Those that can roll 5ar4/274b/5U4G etc. in their Big 7 might be able to really dial in their Lamps.  The differences in sound of these rectifiers can be very distinct unlike the 45 family of tubes.  The 274b that comes stock in some Lamps sounds good and is great bang for your buck, but I have some others in my preamp which really sound super refined and natural.  My Big 7 uses 6x5's so I can't try these variants in my DAC.

Do you have a Big 7?  What tubes are you using?

Gopher

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #16 on: 1 Oct 2014, 03:05 pm »
Hey Luan,

There is no shortage of awesome 6x5s for the Big 7--the Tung Sol metal bases and the Slyvanias are really outstanding IMO.

As for the big bottle rectifiers a new customer and friend brought a genuine Western Electric 274B to the show this past weekend and it was really outstanding  the price is a bit unreasonable for what they fetch these days, but they were a solid step up over the 274B replica. 

wisnon

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #17 on: 1 Oct 2014, 04:17 pm »
More rolling blurb from the Gon:

09-27-14: Sksos1
Lukasz just confirmed I can use a 5U4, GZ34, 5R4, CV378 or CV575 in place of the 274b tube. I have many different rectifiers and have always liked the CV378 that was used in my Kondo amp. Will give several of these a listen to over the next several days.

09-28-14: Wisnon
EML 5u4G or the shuguang WE replica 274b. That is the consensus so far.

I myself will try one of the several 5u4, 5R4, GZ34 rectis I have and those that are on the way…maybe 7 tubes in total to test out?

09-28-14: Sksos1
WOW! I replaced the 5U8C that came with my BIG 6 (274b) with a CV378 KB/DA rectifier tube and just unbelievable how the sound has transformed! Fuller, more detail, deeper soundstage, speakers disappear even more now and the slam that was missing is now there. Only slight negative is maybe the top end is not as open. And to think I gave many of these same tubes away at no charge to friends b/c I never had a use for them. (If I remember correctly these were the rectifier tubes in my Kondo Ongaku I had owned.)
I still have a Belvu 5U4G to try which was always a favorite and a CV575 to try but I don't know when b/c the CV378 is just wonderful.

09-29-14: Wisnon
Sksos,

What brand of CV378? Also what is other tube name?
Have you tried GZ34?

09-29-14: Sksos1
The CV378 has the KB/DA designation on the tube and if you looked up Mullard CV378 they are identical. Although they do not say Mullard on the tube.

Have not tried the GZ34 which again is a CV378 but have tried a CV575, NOS 5U4 and some 5R4 tubes and none have come close to the CV378 in sonics.

09-29-14: Sksos1
So yet another rectifier tried with very nice results. Maybe someone can tell me what tube it is from this description. On the glass itself it has:
U5 2 with and arrow above these numbers and the letter Z next to the up arrow.
Then there's a dark yellow paper liked glued to the glass that has the following nomenclature:
Z1 Z/CV 1071 (and below that reads)
Valves, Eletronic CV1071

The box that it came in says CV575

Very transparent and great extention in the top end, full sounding and only gives up the bass slam of the CV378 but again has more extention on top.
Choices...choices...


Wisnon
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cv1071.html

wisnon

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #18 on: 1 Oct 2014, 04:20 pm »
Sadly enough, I do have the 345 Cunningham Globes.  It sounds similar to the RCA 245 Globes, maybe a bit more vocal bloom.  The 45 is my favorite tube of all time, so I have a healthy stash just in case I ever manage to setup a good horn system.  So I've tried basically every 45 tube in the Big 7.  Like I said, all the tubes bring their own strengths to the table and the tube of choice will come down to personal tastes.  Don't sleep on the National Union ST 45's, those have magic as well and are very affordable.

Those that can roll 5ar4/274b/5U4G etc. in their Big 7 might be able to really dial in their Lamps.  The differences in sound of these rectifiers can be very distinct unlike the 45 family of tubes.  The 274b that comes stock in some Lamps sounds good and is great bang for your buck, but I have some others in my preamp which really sound super refined and natural.  My Big 7 uses 6x5's so I can't try these variants in my DAC.

Do you have a Big 7?  What tubes are you using?

Not set up yet, just gathering tubes beforehand.

6x5 rectis come down to Tungsol, RCA and Gopher likes Sylvania.

shawbros3

Re: Big 7 - rolling 45 glass
« Reply #19 on: 1 Oct 2014, 05:19 pm »
Hey Luan,

There is no shortage of awesome 6x5s for the Big 7--the Tung Sol metal bases and the Slyvanias are really outstanding IMO.

As for the big bottle rectifiers a new customer and friend brought a genuine Western Electric 274B to the show this past weekend and it was really outstanding  the price is a bit unreasonable for what they fetch these days, but they were a solid step up over the 274B replica.

I think my post was pretty confusing and got lost in translation.  I meant to say that since my Big 7 uses 6x5's, I couldn't try out the various 274b/5ar4/5u4g's that I have for my Melody preamp.  I have several 6x5's from the Big 6 days including the Tung-Sols (non-metal staggered) and Sylvania's :thumb:

Mullard CV378 Fat Bottle (not the skinny one) - skinny one is good but very warm and a bit slow.  The fat one is fast, huge stage, and great everything, though still on the warm side.

WE 422a - this guy is crazy holographic and has vocals that remind me of the 45 Globes.  It's just a damn good tube, fast, good bass, dynamics, and flow.

GEC U52 - awesome sound as well, pretty much in the same league as the others with maybe a bit more refined rounded tube sound.

Mullard 5ar4 Metal Base - if you crave SS sonics with a natural hint of tubes, try this one out.  It's super dynamic and punchy.  But never sounds harsh, just an extremely "spearmint/cool" kind of sound.