Is there a new generation of jazz artists

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 1450 times.

Doublej

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2155
Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« on: 12 Jul 2014, 05:40 pm »
The familiar names are passing away. Is there a new generation that I am just not aware of or is the genre dying along with the masters?

FullRangeMan

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 12152
  • All Tweeters look like a target, then shoot them!
    • Never go to a psychiatrist, adopt a straycat or dog. On the street they live only two years average.
Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #1 on: 12 Jul 2014, 06:05 pm »
The best new star are Sax Gordon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGMEErujaH0

Devil Doc

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2191
  • On the road to Perdition
Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #2 on: 12 Jul 2014, 06:22 pm »
There are plenty of new, virtuoso players; unfortunately there are no good new composers and it's killing Jazz.

Doc

Carl V

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 503
Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #3 on: 12 Jul 2014, 06:31 pm »
http://www.jazziz.com/magazine/



http://jazztimes.com/


The genre is still alive with new artists.
It however has changed & morphed a little.

Art_Chicago

Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #4 on: 13 Jul 2014, 06:43 pm »
There are plenty of new, virtuoso players; unfortunately there are no good new composers and it's killing Jazz.

Doc

Agree in general, but there are exceptions, of course.
One example ( if you do not mind mid-eastern influence) is the Cohen family, living in NYC now.
Particularly the band named Third World Love, led by Avishai Cohen( trumpet)

http://www.amazon.com/Songs-Portraits-Third-World-Love/dp/B007BS0YDM

more can be found at anzic records (no affiliation whatsoever).

simoon

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 810
Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #5 on: 12 Aug 2014, 05:39 pm »
There are plenty of new, virtuoso players; unfortunately there are no good new composers and it's killing Jazz.

Doc


I agree with the plethora of virtuoso's, but I will disagree (quite vehemently) with the claim that there are no good new composers.

There are a huge number of great new jazz composers, its just that they compose in different way than in the past.

The standard concept of 'head-solos-head' is gone. Gone too is the heavy reliance on the II-V7-I progression.

Besides being open to many other chord progressions, modern composers use odd meters, superimposed rhythms and other unorthodox rhythmic constructions in their search for new modes of expression. Influences from ethnic folk, rock, contemporary classical, world music, etc are also integrated much more.

I'm not sure at what era you claim that good composing ended, and the era of not good composing started, so I won't bother to name great modern composers. But it is quite possible you would disagree anyway, because you might be looking for something quite different in jazz composition anyway.

What I find interesting is that when the big band era ended, and jazz became something to sit down and listen to, instead of music to dance to in the 50's, the critics and musicians alike said the same thing you are saying.

For example, Bebop was almost universally derided by critics.

Tommy Dorsey claimed, "Bebop has set music back 20 years." Louis Armstrong complained that beboppers were playing wrong chords, and a prominent New York critic said, "Bebop sounds to me like a hardware store in an earthquake."

But looking back, we can see that bebop was an important era with many great composers.

It seems to me that the history of all the arts follow a similar pattern. Something new is always criticized by the generation before it, then it becomes accepted and adopted, then something new comes along, and the pattern starts again.
« Last Edit: 12 Aug 2014, 06:43 pm by simoon »

charmerci

Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #6 on: 12 Aug 2014, 09:58 pm »
I am certainly haven't comprehensively searched all the new artists by any means.

After 20 years of listening to exclusively jazz, I occasionally dip my toes back in. I love the old school stuff and the only one that I know of and love is Melody Gardot. She literally plays and writes music like they used to.



jazzcourier

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 413
Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #7 on: 13 Aug 2014, 04:35 am »
"Sax Gordon" needs some pasties and G-strings to make that strip show tenor work if he his going to be the "new star".
    Plenty of competent,exciting,interesting,arresting "Jazz" musicians out there running amok, throwing a little of this and a little of that into their music. The fact that no dominant style or musician has emerged in the last twenty years raises lots of questions about the future of the music. The only truth I see is that none of the players can be called virtuoso or brilliant like someone like Charlie Parker or Clifford Brown. Nobody is composing like Duke or Mingus, or arranging like Gil Evans. I think the fault lies in the listener who has not done the due diligence on the history and Art of the music and have not done the listening and absorbed the mastery of the music. They always say they know, but they really don't, if we had a more sophisticated audience we would have better Jazz music right now and not stand for so much mediocre music. How can we tolerate an ignorant  society that will not build a temple to our great gift to the world ? The only real truth is that this is a national embarrassment.

Chazro

Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #8 on: 13 Aug 2014, 02:40 pm »
Is Jazz dead or dying?  No.  Is there a new generation of Jazz artists?  Definitely (yes).  Are there virtuosos that are as good as the old-timers?  Yes.  IMO though, there's a lack of new 'standards' being written.  While there's brilliant music being written, I can't think of someone today that's comparable to someone like a Billy Strayhorn.  That said, there's more Jazz being released on a monthly basis than I can afford to buy!  I regularly go to allaboutjazz.com, jazztimes.com, & downbeat.com.  I also go to various sites that pertain to my personal favorite; Latin Jazz.  Of course YouTube is an essential tool.  Jazz is absolutely alive and well and certainly going to outlive all of us!               

simoon

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 810
Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #9 on: 14 Aug 2014, 06:28 pm »
Asking modern jazz composers to compose like Duke, Mingus, or Strayhorn is like asking contemporary classical composers to compose like Mozart or Beethoven. Either would sound disingenuous, and frankly, silly. Modern composers in either field have had decades (and centuries in the case of classical) of changes, influences, new concepts, etc. There is no going back, unless one is more interested in nostalgia than progress.  There is no lack of brilliant contemporary composers, they are just not going to sound like the past.

Back when Ellington and Strayhorn were composing, jazz was the popular music of its day. It served a different purpose than it does today.

As I previously said, when bebop entered the scene, the previous generation of musicians and critics made the same statements you are making about current jazz, that there were no good composers and the players were not as brilliant as the previous generation. You are just repeating the pattern, only you are allowing for more composers and players from the past (to include bebop, post-bop, hard bop), and disregarding the present. Just like the big band generation did with bebop.

In 30 years from now, many of the current generation of jazz fans will be saying, "no one composes like Chic Corea, Terje Rypdal, Keith Jarrett, Steve Coleman, Joe Zawinul, Gonzalo Rubalcaba, Eberhard Weber, Ralph Towner, (and many others) any more. Or play like Alan Holdsworth, John McLauglin, Hiromi, Jaco, Billy Cobham, Jack Dejonette, Don Cherry, Randy Brecker, Ponty." Yet in 30 years from now, jazz will still have it's share of great composers and players.

If jazz is in trouble, it has more to do with it being thought of like it's a museum piece (seriously, how many more releases do we need of 'standards?), not the growing, evolving art form it truly is.

rajacat

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 3133
  • Washington State
Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #10 on: 14 Aug 2014, 06:43 pm »
+1

Chazro

Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #11 on: 14 Aug 2014, 08:10 pm »
Asking modern jazz composers to compose like Duke, Mingus, or Strayhorn is like asking contemporary classical composers to compose like Mozart or Beethoven. Either would sound disingenuous, and frankly, silly. Modern composers in either field have had decades (and centuries in the case of classical) of changes, influences, new concepts, etc. There is no going back, unless one is more interested in nostalgia than progress.  There is no lack of brilliant contemporary composers, they are just not going to sound like the past.

Back when Ellington and Strayhorn were composing, jazz was the popular music of its day. It served a different purpose than it does today.

You talkin' to me?  Down boy...you're preaching to the choir!  If you read carefully, I prefaced my comment by saying; "While there's brilliant music being written....".  I think that's pretty clear.  You wanna preach?  Preach.  I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't attempt to do so at my expense.  We're on the same side dude!;)

simoon

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 810
Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #12 on: 14 Aug 2014, 08:52 pm »
You talkin' to me?  Down boy...you're preaching to the choir!  If you read carefully, I prefaced my comment by saying; "While there's brilliant music being written....".  I think that's pretty clear.  You wanna preach?  Preach.  I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't attempt to do so at my expense.  We're on the same side dude!;)

Responding more to jazzcourier.

Sorry for the confusion.


jazzcourier

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 413
Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #13 on: 15 Aug 2014, 12:32 am »
The condemnation of Bebop, or "Modern Jazz" was a fallacy. It was promoted by a press that thrived on this weak kneed controversy, and few shared the general consensus that the music was ruined.There were always quotes by someone like Tommy Dorsey,who was well past his prime and held a strong animosity that the music was changing. Older bandleaders lined up to challenge the new music and Ellington for one incorporated modernism into his compositions.Benny Goodman sought out Fats Navarro and Wardell Gray and along with Billy Bauer,Clyde Lombardi and Mary Lou Williams create a distinct ensemble based on Bop in 1948.Artie Shaw did the same with forward looking arrangers like Tadd Dameron and filled his last band with modern players. Count Basie waited until the early 50's to hire Wardell Gray,Buddy DeFranco,Serge Chaloff and Clark Terry for his septet. The influence of Parker and Gillespie was profound and led these musicians of a prior generation to stop and re-think what was valuable in their music,they focused on it and absorbed it, and in each case it emerged as something new,different and vital.
   So if you don't know these recordings I mentioned you should check them out,just like any good music from any era of Jazz.I don't want to put anyone down, but that list of musicians who will be remembered 30 years from today,well that smacks of some kind of internet armchair safari through the hall of Jazz overrated (Ralph Towner? nobody remembers him now!) Everybody wants to be an expert,but nobody wants to learn.
     

Tyson

Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #14 on: 15 Aug 2014, 03:51 am »
How come it's all a bunch of dudes?  Besides singers, there just don't seem to be many women in Jazz.

Doublej

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2155
Re: Is there a new generation of jazz artists
« Reply #15 on: 15 Aug 2014, 11:35 am »
How come it's all a bunch of dudes?  Besides singers, there just don't seem to be many women in Jazz.

Here's one.

http://www.gracekellymusic.com/default.aspx?matrix=1