[Devil Doc]

I don't have an answer to all those questions (!), but I do know that Doug Sax is no fool, and takes his craft very seriously. When all the world was going one way, he was going his own. He has no need for free wire from any company, and does not choose the tools of his trade on that basis. He is known for the quality of his work, which is second to none---State of The Art. In fact, he advanced the state of the art in the 70's with his series of direct-to-disk LP's, still the most alive sounding recordings I've ever heard. He IS a little nutty, in the way that many gifted artists and engineers are. He is not going to risk his reputation by using pieces of gear that do not provide him with the most transparent view of the sound he is manipulating---he is THE mastering engineer in the world!

And you know this how?

Doc

[rbbert]

gearslutz.com had quite a thread (involving a few actual mastering engineers and a lot of wannabe's) on "audiophile" cables in the recording studios.  More than a few recording studios (including many of the most highly regarded ones) had cables from Transparent, JPS, Shunyata, Audioquest and others.  To be sure, Mogami and Canare were well represented as well.

[bdp24]

And you know this how?

Doc

Okay, I don't know it. Not only that, it's not true. Feel better? Do you even know of Doug Sax, his work ethos and standards, or even his work? Read any of his interviews? I already know the answer; If you did or had, you wouldn't ask. You can be as much of a skeptic or cynic as you like, it doesn't change the truth. If you really want the answer to your question, and are not being disingenuous, do your own homework, don't copy others' .

[Guy 13]

Okay, I don't know it. Not only that, it's not true. Feel better? Do you even know of Doug Sax, his work ethos and standards, or even his work? Read any of his interviews? I already know the answer; If you did or had, you wouldn't ask. You can be as much of a skeptic or cynic as you like, it doesn't change the truth. If you really want the answer to your question, and are not being disingenuous, do your own homework, don't copy others'.

Hi bdp 24
Are you saying that to make Devil Doc happy
or for him to get off your back
or you really think what you wrote?
 

Yes, I am trying to be funny.
Funny or not, it's the intention that count.

Guy13

[bdp24]

Hey Guy, how ya doin'?. I wasn't trying to be funny, but I was, of course, kidding. it's just a shame when the exhaustive, serious work of the likes of Doug Sax goes unappreciated by some guy who can't be bothered to do even a little research on his own, he just wanting an easy answer. A sign of the times, I suppose. And that's how I took the question---not calling for proof of my statement, but actually not acknowledging Doug's years of hard work to advance the art of mastering by not being familiar with Doug or his work. We have all benefitted from that work, and then this presumably lazy sod (I'm not British, but I do admire their attempt to maintain a high standard in the use of the English language) shows Doug no respect. Why I oughta..... It would be like someone here stating that Roger makes the finest transformers available in any power amplifier, and then some guy asking: "And you know this how?". The question needing to be asked, and of the dubious Doc, actually is "And you don't know this because?". On a related note, I just received an email from The Tweek Geeks. In that email was an announcement of the new power cord by Bybee. Price? $1500! Wonder if Doug Sax has one yet?

[fastfred]

I don't have an answer to all those questions (!), but I do know that Doug Sax is no fool, and takes his craft very seriously. When all the world was going one way, he was going his own. He has no need for free wire from any company, and does not choose the tools of his trade on that basis. He is known for the quality of his work, which is second to none---State of The Art. In fact, he advanced the state of the art in the 70's with his series of direct-to-disk LP's, still the most alive sounding recordings I've ever heard. He is a little nutty, in the way that many gifted artists and engineers are. He is not going to risk his reputation by using pieces of gear that do not provide him with the most transparent view of the sound he is manipulating---he is THE mastering engineer in the world!

And you know this how?

Doc



Okay, I don't know it. Not only that, it's not true. Feel better? Do you even know of Doug Sax, his work ethos and standards, or even his work? Read any of his interviews? I already know the answer; If you did or had, you wouldn't ask. You can be as much of a skeptic or cynic as you like, it doesn't change the truth. If you really want the answer to your question, and are not being disingenuous, do your own homework, don't copy others'.



I totally agree with bdp24 on the subject of Doug Sax. If he’s on the album credits you can expect the best sonics. The “Mastering Labs” if on a list of album credits, is usually an indicator of a quality recording, as well, even without Doug’s name. I believe that calling someone out to defend themselves on their description of & obvious admiration of, as well known a  mastering engineer as Doug Sax is disinjenous at best, in my opinion obnoxious. (not to mention against forum rules)
In my opinion Doc you owe bdp24 an apology.

There were 2 other topics related to this one that were quarantined a few days ago. Roger asked that we exercise restraint when posting in the Music Reference Circle. It’s in light of this that I wrote the above.


                               ……………………………………. fastfred

p.s. to Guy 13 it’s not funny!!

p.p.s. ….. I’m a junior member here on Music Reference Circle. How does one get to be a full member? The reason I ask this question is because of some observations I’ve made participating in other forums. Usually member status depends on how active a person is on the forums. In other words post count. Single word posts shouldn’t count. I joined Music Circle in Aug. 2012, with 52 posts to date.

[Guy 13]

And you know this how?

Doc



Okay, I don't know it. Not only that, it's not true. Feel better? Do you even know of Doug Sax, his work ethos and standards, or even his work? Read any of his interviews? I already know the answer; If you did or had, you wouldn't ask. You can be as much of a skeptic or cynic as you like, it doesn't change the truth. If you really want the answer to your question, and are not being disingenuous, do your own homework, don't copy others'.



I totally agree with bdp24 on the subject of Doug Sax. If he’s on the album credits you can expect the best sonics. The “Mastering Labs” if on a list of album credits, is usually an indicator of a quality recording, as well, even without Doug’s name. I believe that calling someone out to defend themselves on their description of & obvious admiration of, as well known a  mastering engineer as Doug Sax is disinjenous at best, in my opinion obnoxious. (not to mention against forum rules)
In my opinion Doc you owe bdp24 an apology.

There were 2 other topics related to this one that were quarantined a few days ago. Roger asked that we exercise restraint when posting in the Music Reference Circle. It’s in light of this that I wrote the above.


                               ……………………………………. fastfred

p.s. to Guy 13 it’s not funny!!

p.p.s. ….. I’m a junior member here on Music Reference Circle. How does one get to be a full member? The reason I ask this question is because of some observations I’ve made participating in other forums. Usually member status depends on how active a person is on the forums. In other words post count. Single word posts shouldn’t count. I joined Music Circle in Aug. 2012, with 52 posts to date.

Hi fastfred.
There are many different types of humor, mine is special to me,
please get use to it, because there are lot more to come.
I agree with you, post with one word or just a smiley
should not count for one post, but you know what?
I don't make the rules here.
Maybe you should ask JonhR if he can change the rules ?

Guy 13

This post should count for one,
I have more than one word in it with a smiley.
3163 and counting...
 

[G Georgopoulos]

Hi fastfred.
There are many different types of humor, mine is special to me,
please get use to it, because there are lot more to come.
I agree with you, post with one word or just a smiley
should not count for one post, but you know what?
I don't make the rules here.
Maybe you should ask JonhR if he can change the rules ?

Guy 13

This post should count for one,
I have more than one word in it with a smiley.
3163 and counting...

I bet most of your posts are with more than one smiley..

[Guy 13]

I bet most of your posts are with more than one smiley..

Hi Georgopoulos.
You should know about the number of smilies in put in my posts,
because you've been following my posts for a long time...

Guy 13 
...and there we go again, one more post.

[Devil Doc]

I don't owe anyone an apology and let's leave it at that.

Doc

[bardamu]

Hello,
Guy is a funny guy. BUT the future of high end audio isnt that bright. I mean the future of audio isn't very nice too.
People who just down open a drink and listen to music with a proper sounding set are a dying race.
You spend time on the internet and in the background there is some music playing.
Most of the people in the audio business are looking for your wallet just like the people who did sell you these subprime mortgages.
Every time they will come up with new gadgets and invade internetsites like this with their hidden marketing strategies.
Of course there are exceptions . Will not name them nor will i name the ones that are on the wrong side.
Sincere greetings, Edward
p.s yes Seth is on the right side

[watercourse]

I've got an offer for you Roger.

I've got a Furutech 32mm 6.3A slo-blo I used in my Pass amp which takes a 5A fuse, and a Synergistic Research SR20 20mm 315mA slo-blo that I used in my DAC that takes a 250mA fuse. The inrush current on both of these solid state units blew their fuses with the same nominal rating, so I worked with both manufacturers to replace them with the next higher rating. I use them in the AC line input.

You're welcome to try them out and let me know if you hear any differences. I have found distinct characteristics with each brand fuse, but I'll let you be the judge. Note that I hold no opinions about whether they should have any sonic impacts or not from an electrical or circuit design perspective, I'd be speaking out of school if I did. However, I know from empirical experience that they do.

[Freo-1]

Here is the bottom line:  Tuning fuses are "JUNK SCIENCE", period.  There is absolutely zero basis from an engineering perspective to promote these products.  The claims regarding improved performance are somewhere between disingenuous and out nonsense from an engineering perspective. 

Political correctness does not apply with this subject.  Any item that has the potential to damage equipment and provides no true improvement does not deserve respect.  Audiophiles who push this junk science are doing themselves and the community as a whole a disservice.   

Roger pointed out earlier that an isolation transformer is an example of the type of item that could provide a measurable improvement. 

[jtwrace]

Here is the bottom line:  Tuning fuses are "JUNK SCIENCE", period.  There is absolutely zero basis from an engineering perspective to promote these products.  The claims regarding improved performance are somewhere between disingenuous and out and out nonsense from an engineering perspective. 

Political correctness does not apply with this subject.  Any item that has the potential to damage equipment and provides no true improvement does not deserve respect.  Audiophiles who push this junk science are doing themselves and the community as a whole a disservice.   

Roger pointed out earlier that an isolation transformer is an example of the type of item that could provide a measurable improvement.

Well said.

[Guy 13]

Here is the bottom line:  Tuning fuses are "JUNK SCIENCE", period.  There is absolutely zero basis from an engineering perspective to promote these products.  The claims regarding improved performance are somewhere between disingenuous and out nonsense from an engineering perspective. 

Political correctness does not apply with this subject.  Any item that has the potential to damage equipment and provides no true improvement does not deserve respect.  Audiophiles who push this junk science are doing themselves and the community as a whole a disservice.   

Roger pointed out earlier that an isolation transformer is an example of the type of item that could provide a measurable improvement.

Again, well said !

Guy 13

[Diamond Dog]

Most of the people in the audio business are looking for your wallet just like the people who did sell you these subprime mortgages.
Every time they will come up with new gadgets and invade internetsites like this with their hidden marketing strategies.
Of course there are exceptions . Will not name them nor will i name the ones that are on the wrong side.

Oh come on. This kind of post gets smeared onto this forum WAY too often. Drive-by,anonymous slander ( of course, never naming any names ) of "most of the people in the audio business " who are out to fleece the poor moneyed dummies who seem to be too stupid to make their own value judgments.  Congratulations though on lowering the bar still further by drawing a parallel between the audio industry and the rogue elements of the financial industry who have literally sent people out of their homes to live in their cars. This is epic hyperbole and is an insult to the many who have suffered terribly through this economy. This thread is about whether people should be spending a few bucks on a bloody tuning fuse for God's sake. Get a grip... and some perspective.

While we're at it, do you think there's any correlation between the "Good Guys" who are not " On The Wrong Side" and the guys who made whatever is on the
rack of the paranoiacs who post this kind of stuff? I'll put money on it. Cuz these posters are always labouring under the assumption that they are the cleverest monkeys in the cage, flinging their poo at the ones they feel are inferior.

Are there certain elements in this industry - and any industry - which need to be afforded some healthy skepticism ? Of course. But there are also a majority who, just like you and me, are just trying to make a living without holding secret meetings among themselves to plot new and ever more nefarious tactics to get at those audiophile wallets and empty them right out in return for a handful of nothing.

So go ahead, name some names...because maybe then Admin would put this shit-show thread where it belongs once and for all.

D.D. 
 

[macrojack]

Diamond Dog - The pickpockets work the areas where there's money and where people are not expecting the vulnerability that the thieves introduce. Audiophiles represent just such a neighborhood with their demonstrated, indeed insistent, gullibility and their vain pursuit of status and ego gratification.

I'm not sure who's to blame in all of this but I am sure it is happening.

[kevin360]

Here is the bottom line:  Tuning fuses are "JUNK SCIENCE", period.  There is absolutely zero basis from an engineering perspective to promote these products.  The claims regarding improved performance are somewhere between disingenuous and out nonsense from an engineering perspective.   

I respectfully disagree. Please, recall Scotty's terse, but powerful comment:

The problem with a fuse is that it behaves as a non-linear resistor whose resistance varies as a function current induced temperature changes.
Scotty

That's a very succinct summary of the problem with fuses. In some cases, for them to offer protection, they are forced to operate into their thermally reactive region. In some cases, that can have a sonic impact. This is the kernel of truth lying beneath the hype.

In such cases, the solution is less likely an 'improved' fuse than it is an alternative device. There are other types of protection devices, some of which are resettable. In some cases, an acceptable solution is to discard the protection altogether – as with fuses which protect the drivers comprising one's speakers.

Think about the problem with fuses as similar to that with MOVs, except that the latter can fail disastrously when forced to operate in a continuous manner as a voltage clamp (a reason to avoid 130V MOVs).

Getting back to the fuses, I could not agree more with the criticisms of Tuning Fuses based upon their operation as protection devices. Extremism is rarely, if ever, accurate. It's also completely unnecessary.   

[kevin360]

Diamond Dog - The pickpockets work the areas where there's money and where people are not expecting the vulnerability that the thieves introduce. Audiophiles represent just such a neighborhood with their demonstrated, indeed insistent, gullibility and their vain pursuit of status and ego gratification.

I'm not sure who's to blame in all of this but I am sure it is happening.

it would be awfully naive to not expect a fox to raid the hen house. On the other hand, it's not all bad news. Sure, there are charlatans, but most of their wares are innocuous enough. Such things can provide improvements via psychological means, which are no less real. The fuses which spawned this thread can not be classified as innocuous.

Of course, it is happening. This is one of the reasons why we need to educate ourselves.

[Diamond Dog]

Diamond Dog - The pickpockets work the areas where there's money and where people are not expecting the vulnerability that the thieves introduce. Audiophiles represent just such a neighborhood with their demonstrated, indeed insistent, gullibility and their vain pursuit of status and ego gratification.

I'm not sure who's to blame in all of this but I am sure it is happening.

Thanks for your reply.

As I said, there are always elements in any industry who deserve to be considered with caution. I'm not taking some Pollyanna position of saying the the Holy Hobby is as pure as the driven snow. I find the paranoia and hyperbole exhibited in the post ( for example ) which I mentioned to be extreme and all too common on AC. Anyone who thinks that most of the audio industry is crooked should just move on to and take up another hobby before it slowly drives them mad. If you think the table is rigged, feel free to push your chair away, get up and leave. It's no wonder threads like these swerve in and out of the weeds of Quarantine until they finally get binned. They get used as a soapbox by people with agendas to push and it's always the same "they're out to get us and our money" nonsense proposing the existence of some industry-wide conspiracy to feed on the weak and the lame, excluding, of course, the few, the proud, the brave who, in the face of insurmountable odds, manage to fight the good fight in an industry more corrupt than Serpico could have withstood. You know, the guys that built my stuff, 'cuz I would never fall for any of the evildoing that is woven into the very fabric of audio, right? Malice and derision gets directed towards the dummies who "spend too much" on "the wrong things" according to the panel of self-appointed experts who always have the inside track, be it some tweak or cables or the"wrong" amplifier or speaker design or whatever else is the hobbyhorse du jour. Most of this has little to nothing to do with audio when all is said and done.

As to who's to blame, it's certainly not the vast majority of people in this industry who are just doing a job. Why should those people get tarred with the same brush ? If audiophiles are supposedly insistently gullible and locked in a vain pursuit of status and ego gratification ( and by the way, I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in finding that categorization to be both incorrect and offensive ), a fair number of them also seem to struggle with paranoid delusions of persecution and an unending compulsion to proselytize on behalf of their One True Faith. And it would be nice if they would get over it.

And by the way, "most of the people in" ANY "industry are looking for your wallet", bardamu. What happens beyond that is pretty much up to you.

D.D.