[Folsom]

It's very difficult for me to take anyone here seriously that hasn't been willing to try one. I know the buy in for trial sucks, and that's why we read reviews. Now, who you trust for reviews is your choice.

I'm not saying fuses do anything, but I can tell you I'm not going to use an Ace hardware one in any of my conditioners. Basically because of what Scotty has said. Besides that, I can also use something that's not a fuse. However if the "audiophile" grade ones are a cheaper, easier, alternative to certain types of breakers/interrupters/etc, it might be the best option.

Roger, you yourself have mentioned that any resistance in the AC path is a bad idea. I agree with you there to a point of minimal resistance, but I have to point out the irony of a rejection of high end fuses for certain applications, given the nature that Scotty has brought into the topic.

Anyway, I'll take the people that have tried them as a better opinion for now.

[AJinFLA]

The problem with a fuse is that it behaves as a non-linear resistor whose resistance varies as a function current induced temperature changes.
Scotty

Where does this "problem" show up in the electrical output of the DUT?

Cheers,

AJ

[Tyson]

Why not just bypass the fuse entirely, if its so bad?  Oh wait - hahahahahaha

[JohnR]

Hah hah!

[OzarkTom]

Why not just bypass the fuse entirely, if its so bad?  Oh wait - hahahahahaha

I have known some that has used a solid copper bar. Bet that voids the warranty.

[Roger A. Modjeski]

Question: If one uses a much thicker and/or longer power cable than the standard 14 gauge 5 FT cable supplied with many components these days, wouldn't the thicker/longer power cord act a bit like a larger capacitor (than the standard cable)? Wouldn't this possibly help consistent power delivery to the machine's power supply? Excuse my ignorance, if this seems like a stupid question. Safety issues aside, if a fancy fuse (prior to the power supply) uses a more conductive filament than a standard fuse, couldn't it possibly help the machine's power supply operate at a slightly more optimal level. Again, I'm just posing questions that seem logical from my limited knowledge base.

This is the kind of question that moves us forward. It has been said, there are no bad questions, only bad answers.

The capacitance of a power cord cannot help provide consistent power as it does not work like the capacitor in a power supply that is storing DC. Even if it could it is very small by comparison.

The difference in conductance of the premium fuse is vanishingly small compared to the other resistances in the circuit. I would be more concerned with the fuse holder's resistance. I ran the numbers in the Audiogon forum post. I found the effect of the fuse to be more than 100 dB down. Perhaps that is not enough for some.

The main resistance in any device is in the primary and secondary of the transformer. In a CD player this might be 20 ohms. In a power amp 5 ohms, in a really big power amp 2 ohms. I have measured some primaries below 1 ohm but those are in really big amps. The effect of the fuses resistance, change in resistance, inductance must be considered in light of what it is powering. Its a pit like pissing in the ocean. Yes you add to the volume of water.. but not much. When analyzed many technical claims fall into that category.

If we are concerned about reducing resistance we should look to other things that matter more. A dedicated line back to your main panel can help. Get the electrician to use the heaviest gauge wire within reason. While he is at it run two circuits. One for the power amp and one for everything else. Ask him to find the lowest resistance breaker he can. Run it in conduit (flexible or rigid) which will provide shielding from other things happening in you home.

If resistance is your concern the improvement will be equivalent to swapping out dozens of fuses. A even larger improvement will be that as the power amp draws more current with the music it will not be moving the voltage on the socket that powers your front end and preamp from the other line. Even better, have the electrician put the power amp run and the front end run on different phases.

[RDavidson]

Glad to put my ignorance to use for the betterment of all.
Thanks for the detailed answer, Roger.

One more question : As there are many of us in this hobby who can't rewire their rental homes, would a power regenerator be a sensible purchase? I guess this would at least provide power isolation from the rest of the home(s) wiring, even though power delivery to the regenerator itself wouldn't be improved (per your suggestion earlier involving dedicated lines).

[Freo-1]

Where does this "problem" show up in the electrical output of the DUT?

Cheers,

AJ

You beat me to it!

[Photon46]

I don't understand corner traps at all. At the corner there is a node in a standing wave where there is virtually no air motion to be trapped.

I think the people who design room treatments don't know much about sound waves, which is unfortunate.

Roger, I thought I'd take the opportunity to include a link to a slightly lengthy article addressing your doubts about corner traps. While it is true there is little molecular motion at a room's node junction/wall surface, there is corresponding pressure buildup that can be dealt with through frictional membrane trapping. The standard low tech panel of compressed fiberglass jammed in a corner isn't able to affect frequencies much lower than 300 hz., but in combination with a tuned membrane, one can start affecting double digit frequiencies with a corner trap.

http://www.moultonlabs.com/more/taming_the_big_wave/P1/

[demodisc9]

This reply has not so much to do with audio fuses (or any other for that matter), but it does seem to be related to Don Quixote. In the event it is not obvious, the tone of this particular thread caught my attention.

The future of high end audio dies on a daily basis, when individuals simply choose to listen.
Investigate your room, buy a good chair (or not) and enjoy the music.
 
I cannot speak for others, but it does become very apparent when one cannot enjoy that singular pleasure.

With respect to "tweaks" in general, I would not be without Audio Points by Star Sound (0 - zero affiliation) and a good chair.

A good evening to all.

[fastfred]

This reply has not so much to do with audio fuses (or any other for that matter), but it does seem to be related to Don Quixote. In the event it is not obvious, the tone of this particular thread caught my attention.

The future of high end audio dies on a daily basis, when individuals simply choose to listen.
Investigate your room, buy a good chair (or not) and enjoy the music.
 
I cannot speak for others, but it does become very apparent when one cannot enjoy that singular pleasure.

With respect to "tweaks" in general, I would not be without Audio Points by Star Sound (0 - zero affiliation) and a good chair.

A good evening to all.

.............................You Are correct sometimes I do get up on my high horse. It’s because when I scan the audiophile press in general, editors & reviewers seem to be lamenting the immenant death of the hi/end.They then publish ridiculous reviews like tuning fuses, & the ones I’ve included below. Essentially contributing to their own demise.

As I said  in the original post if a neophyte audiophile was approached with some of the mumbo jumbo I’ve heard over the years he would probably head for the nearest Bose Boutique…………

One of my motives in starting the thread is my disappointment at being unable to find an honest review magazine. (another reason for the death of the hi/end) I know this when I’m listening to music I’m much more serene. I'm looking for a review journal where there are more music reviews, more reviews of the basics, turntables, amps, pre/amps, speakers, & less reviews of voodoo, & pseudoscience.  Not one person who has responded to this thread has listed their favourite audio magazine, which I was hoping would happen. There must be one reputable journal out there.

I too have a few pet tweaks (for want of a better word) which I think enhance the sound of my system. I believe that wire can influence the sound of a system as well. For better or worse that's up to you. Where I draw the line and feel obligated to speak up. Is when I encounter cable products which cost more than an amp or pre/amp & products such as tuning fuses, & another example I find to be particularly offensive is manufactured by a German company (Stein Music) which cites quantum physics in it's design. The reviewer claimed that it changes the compliance of the air in the room. Here are some reviews of products, from that company, reviewed in PFO since 2012. Please note my complaint is with the reviewer & the review, not necessarily the product.

( http://positive-feedback.com/Issue61/steinmusic.htm )

and.

( http://positive-feedback.com/Issue59/stein_music_harmonizer.htm )

ps. go to a parallel universe ( Debunking Tuning Fuses et al ). a new topic on this site.
Roger & Ben ( Music Reference.com ) have made some interesting points!

[Roger A. Modjeski]

Fred,

Thanks for the links to the most ridiculous reviews I have read to date. I note that they are both by the same reviewer. Positive Feedback must get their reviewers right out of THE ASYLUM. These guys make no sense at all.

I agree that magazines like PF and their reviewers do significant harm to the industry.  As I have mentioned previously, Stereophile is doing the best job by including good measurements. However some of their reviewers do believe in silly things and have said great things about bad amplifiers.

I would be happy to be involved on the technical end of a magazine that brought some sanity to the industry while making a complete lampoon of the silliness.

[xsb7244]

There is one magazine.  Linear Audio Magazine.

[fastfred]

Fred,

Thanks for the links to the most ridiculous reviews I have read to date. I note that they are both by the same reviewer. Positive Feedback must get their reviewers right out of THE ASYLUM. These guys make no sense at all.

I agree that magazines like PF and their reviewers do significant harm to the industry.  As I have mentioned previously, Stereophile is doing the best job by including good measurements. However some of their reviewers do believe in silly things and have said great things about bad amplifiers.

I would be happy to be involved on the technical end of a magazine that brought some sanity to the industry while making a complete lampoon of the silliness.

I know it may seem to some that I have it in for PFO. I used to think Positive Feedback ( print version ) along with Listener were 2 of the best audio review journals
out there. I know they can do better the evidence is in print. It's just that all this daft shite seems to be showing up on PFO. I will keep on the lookout for more articles like this.

There is one magazine.  Linear Audio Magazine.

Yes Linear Audio is a good magazine Jan Didden is the driving force behind this both print & online technical Journal.  I have 5 print issues. The approach is technical oriented, lots of diy & schematic info, Nelson Pass contributes, there are reprints of articles by the likes of Peter Baxandal, Richard Burwen. For a non technical person like myself they can be a dry read.  I’m sure Roger & Ben would be interested in this magazine, there are lots of good articles.

( http://www.linearaudio.net )

Roger mentioned the work of Sterophile magazine’s technical editor John Atkinson as being reliable & reputable. I like Art Dudley, from his listener magazine days. To be honest I prefer the small journal format of the old TAS, Sterophile, and listener.

[Roger A. Modjeski]

I discovered Linear Audio magazine a few months ago and contacted the editor. It appears to be good, I wonder what his circulation is. From the samples I see online it appears to be at a higher technical level than the general reader would understand.

[G Georgopoulos]

I discovered Linear Audio magazine a few months ago and contacted the editor. It appears to be good, I wonder what his circulation is. From the samples I see online it appears to be at a higher technical level than the general reader would understand.

The baby of jan didden,well yeah ee grade magazine,who reads magazines nowadays there is the
internet and forums,people just get creative..

[demodisc9]

A couple of items:

fastfred - No sense of the high horse from me.

kevin360 - Love the dog, ours passed on a bit more than a year ago.

Guy 13 - I should have been wearing the earmuffs for the last 30+ years.

What I have learned - I will be a Jr. member for a very long time.

What I know - A good chair and a pint will sometime trump the music, but just sometime.

A good evening to all.

[kevin360]

I read about Jan Didden & Linear Audio for the first time on 6moons.com, not a bad magazine.

Oh, the sweet irony...
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/net/net.html

It's very difficult for me to take anyone here seriously that hasn't been willing to try one.

As someone who spent a couple of decades earning his living by repairing equipment which had gone awry, I tip my hat to my sacrificial little friend - the fuse. I can't tell you how many times a well chosen fuse has limited the collateral damage of a destabilized circuit. A fuse must perform two tasks. The HiFi Tuning Fuse appears to concentrate all of its efforts on one of them, to the detriment of the other. Do you not find it at all disturbing that there is absolutely no published data regarding their 'fail' characteristics?

I don't have to strap paper wings to my arms and defenestrate myself from the 32nd floor to know that such wings will not enable me to fly. To imply that one cannot reason away certain ideas as folly is an insult to the human capacity to rationalize.

[kevin360]

kevin360 - Love the dog, ours passed on a bit more than a year ago.

He (Pico) passed 13 months ago (at 13 years) - still miss him dearly. He was unique.

[fastfred]

Oh, the sweet irony...
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/net/net.html

In my defence, ( http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/musicreference/rm10.html ) I can't be everywhere, the fact still remains tuning
fuses are a bogus product. PFO isn't the only guilty party publishing reviews like this. I already knew that. Is that your point?