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Assuming you're not likely to actually try to listen objectively to an alternative fuse to decide if there's a sound difference
how about you enlighten the grotesquely misinformed about some of the OBJECTIVE reasons why a change in material / construction of a fuse can't make a difference in the sound quality of a component?
It would seem obvious/logical to take a handful of these fuses and subject them to some objective destructive testing to see how they perform in their primary job. As anyone done this yet? Maybe I've missed it?Dave.
Your correct we don't listen blind
If you look at the opening post in this thread you can see it's really a lament on how the hobby has degenerated to the point where if you say you're an audiophile some people look at you as if you just left hanger 2 at area 51.
I don't want to read about Stein Music Harmonizers, I don't want to read about tuning fuses & bogus sales techniques mixed in with reviews of speaker cables, interconnect, & mains cables. What I want to hear is honesty in reviewing.
Give me the good old meat & potatoes of audio, power amps, integrated amps, pre/amps, phono pre/amps, turntables, cd, SACD, Multiformat players, Dacs, internet audio. Perhaps most important of all the music! Reviews of real music not audiophile records although I have some, they sound wonderful, they're wonderfully recorded
Remember when John Atkinson just couldn't take George Tice's Magic Clock nonsense anymore, and had to reveal it for what it was? Where's John on the Magic Fuses I wonder?
Perhaps you're only reason for being in this thread is to make prejudiced statements and semantic arguments without feeling the need to provide objective reasons for them. Saying that people are free to believe whatever they like about something so long as they don't claim some basis on objective truth, is in the end not really saying anything that meaningful at all.
Well, that makes both of us. Although for entirely different reasons. Unless you are suggesting your listening will be blind/controlled?Please do share your preferred objective listening method.I most certainly wouldn't try to prove a negative and on the same token, unburden you from the proof of plausibility that scam fuses "in the current path" might correlate to sound quality. Physics/EE type evidence within known perceptual thresholds would suffice, in lieu of straight up perceptual data. I'm definitely open minded about that sort of thing, as should you be.cheers,AJ
......and perhaps that's the whole point. You can't disprove what someone else senses or perceives. So what is the point of trying to make that person out to be a fool? I'll say this again, there are things in this world that science can not explain and may never be able to explain. Further, there are way too many factors involved to say that a tweak definitely (proven objectively) works 100% in all possible scenarios. I guess that's what makes them tweaks. If they worked 100% of the time in all possible scenarios, they wouldn't be tweaks now would they? That's not to say that I don't believe that some things in this hobby are ridiculous, but as AJ is basically saying, if it works for you (ie makes you happy) then what is the problem, other than the fact that maybe this person got hosed........but it's not your money or time or energy, so really, how can we arrive at a truly meaningful discussion here? I must say, out of all the info in this thread, the point made about Hi Fi Tuning fuses not being UL listed or certified in any way, is enough for me to snub them. That the rags love them (despite the fore mentioned fact) only points out that you should always do your own research and not just buy into what some dude, whom you don't know personally, says.
Hi Dave.At 50 USD a pop, who's ready (Read, financially wealthy enough) to make an expensive test like that?I would guess, not even the manufacturer himself is ready to do that test, otherwise they would brag about it in their advertising/marketing.They are more concern about sound quality, than safety.Guy 13
Quote from: jarcher on Today at 08:33 pmhow about you enlighten the grotesquely misinformed about some of the OBJECTIVE reasons why a change in material / construction of a fuse can't make a difference in the sound quality of a component?I think you're both missing the point!!! have either of you even read the opening post? The concern is audiophile fuses from 2 different companies being compared for their soundstaging & imaging ability, and the detail improvement when these fuses were in use. Essentially which company made a better sounding fuse. When the real problem is whether either product can do it's job as a fuse. The issue is promoting a product which blows up the equipment it's used in!!Roger originally broached the topic on another post titled Tuning Fuses he began the topic because of an amplifier repair which had come in. Where the owner of the amp had replaced all the fuses in his amp with tuning fuses. Needless to say the amp had Chernobled. So I'm wondering if noting the soundstage, the imaging, & the detail of the amp at the point of eruption is a subjective or an objective action. The gist of the post is irresponsible journalism. How's that for objective?
Playing the relativistic card doesn't really advance the conversation: i.e. do what makes you happy, YMMV, yada yada. I already know that. But in this case there are claims being made on scientific objective basis for & against these fuses with respect to sound quality, and I want to hear both arguments. But as for the arguments against, so far mostly on this thread I'm only getting invectives against the "snake oil salesman" and appeals to authority and science which are not being substantiated.
We're going have agree to disagree.
Anyone who can claim scientifically that these tweak fuses can or can't make a difference with 100% certainty either way, for or against, I'd love to see the proof. It wasn't just a relativistic card, I played. As I stated earlier, there are way too many scenarios, which means there'd be way too many testing methodologies involved to even attempt to go about such a study. Where would one start? As this scientific study is likely to never take place, maybe we should stop trying to make a "meaningful discussion" out of a moot point. So basically, what you're getting at is that you want people (the one's with stated science objectivity) to admit that they can't 100% prove or disprove their statement. And what's the point of that? It's all moot.
I haven't seen enough evidence yet that there is a widespread issue with these fuses not being sufficiently safe. The moderators one experience is concerning - but one case doesn't make a rule. How many of the boutique audio products including high power amps have UL listing or independent safety certifications? And we happily plug those things away and even leave them unattended. I had one personal experience of flipping the switch on a big Audio Research tube amp with a bad tube, and sparks and FIRE came out as it melted a resistor! And it had fresh standard fuses, which seemed to be no help. I've heard stories of Parasound Halo amps totally melting down when speaker wires were crossed - and those have standard fuses as well. Two (or more!) wrongs don't make a right, and I'd certainly feel more comfortable with a UL etc certification on an "audiophile" fuse, but I think you know where I'm going with this. Perhaps you are right and the topic of this thread is the SAFETY of "audiophile" fuses. I had assume that it was also about their potential affect on sound quality, positive, negative, or none.
