[hcsunshine]

hi y'all, I own the music hall mmf-2.2 TT and am using the cartridge that came with it, the music hall tracker. I'm thinking of switching out the cartridge with a better one. one person (on another forum) suggested the clearaudio concept V2 cartridge ($250). is this a good idea? would it make my sound better? does anyone have experience with this cartridge and if so, how do you like it? can anyone think of a better bang for the buck in a cartridge at the $250 level? I don't want to spend more than this as it's "only" a $450 TT. any replies welcome. thanks, john.

[Wayner]

I believe that the biggest percentage of a turntables' sound is from the cartridge. I have 8 tables and have basically made them sound almost all the same by putting the same cartridge on them. I think the cartridge idea is a great direction for you to change the presentation of your table. The trick here is to find one that is compatible with your tonearm.

[hcsunshine]

thanks for the reply. actually, the person who recommended this cartridge had this exact TT, so I think it will fit. does anybody have experience with the clearaudio concept V2 cartridge that can comment on it's sound?

[neobop]

hi y'all, I own the music hall mmf-2.2 TT and am using the cartridge that came with it, the music hall tracker. I'm thinking of switching out the cartridge with a better one. one person (on another forum) suggested the clearaudio concept V2 cartridge ($250). is this a good idea? would it make my sound better? does anyone have experience with this cartridge and if so, how do you like it? can anyone think of a better bang for the buck in a cartridge at the $250 level? I don't want to spend more than this as it's "only" a $450 TT. any replies welcome. thanks, john.

Hi John, welcome to the monkey house.

There might be a better choice.  What phono stage do you have and what's the rest of your system?  Are you looking for specific qualities?  For example, with a mellow sounding system you might want a cart to liven it up a bit, or it could be the opposite - need to tone it down.  Maybe it's neither one.  I think it's better if we get an idea of those answers before making recommendations.
neo

[yeldarb]

LP Gear has a hyper elliptical stylus upgrade for the Tracker cart.  I was pleased with the improvement in sound.  Look at the turntable listing for the reference number.  Less than a Benjamin and an easy step up.  I installed it on an Ed's red body (same cart).

[hcsunshine]

Hi John, welcome to the monkey house.

There might be a better choice.  What phono stage do you have and what's the rest of your system?  Are you looking for specific qualities?  For example, with a mellow sounding system you might want a cart to liven it up a bit, or it could be the opposite - need to tone it down.  Maybe it's neither one.  I think it's better if we get an idea of those answers before making recommendations.
neo

hey neobop, I won't characterize my system, but I do want a neutral sound, one with adequate bass, mids and treble. an accurate reproduction of the music if you will. I have a musical fidelity V-LPS 2 phono stage going to an emotiva XSP-1 gen 2 pre amp going to emotiva UPA-1 amps to 2 way speakers (with a RAAL 70-20xr ribbon tweeter and a paper coned scan-speak illuminator series 7 inch mid woofer. the cabinets are also rear ported.) though, I will say both the pre amp and speakers are very revealing. (it's about a $4,400 system for my analog stage so far) thank you and looking forward to your replies.

[Minn Mark]

hc,
I recommend you speaking with Galen at Galen Carol Audio. He's been in the analog business many years, absolutely no sales pressure, and has always given me excellent advice. A great business owner. Highly recommended.

Good luck with your eventual choice.

Mark

[neobop]

John,
Interesting system.  Are those DIY speakers?  They look like they might be killer.  I'm curious about the crossover.

Anyway, yes, IMO you'll benefit from a cart upgrade.  Do long range plans include a table upgrade?  If so, you might want to keep that in mind with cart selection.  Chances are the Clearaudio MMs will be compatible with most, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend the Concept V2.  For $250 I think you can do better, but it would entail a used V1 (any upscale CA model) and an upgraded stylus.  The Concept doesn't have the wood top and is no different than a Concept V1.  If you can find a used one, especially in need of a stylus/cantilever, you'll be way ahead.  I bought a Virtuoso like that for $200 and you have a lot of options for upgrading the stylus.  You also should consider the stylus upgrade for the Tracker that Yeldarb mentioned.  It's nice to have a backup and you never know.
http://www.lpgear.com/product/LPGRX9HE.html

There are other carts you might want to consider like the DL-110 ($140).  Lots of love for this guy - a little sweet and romantic, but it's not excessive.

Your table is said to be a little forward in the upper midrange and lacking in deep bass.  I suspect that if you added some mass to the underside of the plinth and changed out the feet, it might be much better, but I never played with a 2.2.  With that sound in mind, you might want to be cautious of carts with a tendency towards brightness.  The AT7V ($160) would be a good choice IMO.  There's also much love for the Nagaoka MP-150 ($274)
Ortofon 2M Blue might work, but I don't know.

This is what I'd be interested in getting:
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/cartridges-pickering-xsv-3000sp-excellent-shape-with-case-2014-06-14-analog-92322-cedarpines-pk-ca

Order that Tracker stylus at the same time and have some fun, but maybe you don't have the time or inclination to mess with it.  It's not like you can buy an original replacement stylus.
neo

[hcsunshine]

the speakers I have are actually selah audio verita monitors, put together by rick craig. IMO they sound pretty nice. I will contact him for yours and my own info regarding the crossover, as I was wondering about the crossover myself in recent times. my table MAY be a lil forward in the upper midrange (but is not a problem) and I believe it has adequate bass. (I'm comparing it to the rega RP1 that I used to own that had an ortofon OM-5e cartridge that had very poor bass. that's also why I want to stay away from any ortofon cartridges.) in addition to that, just personal preference, I'd rather go with a brand new cartridge instead of a used one. also, i really don't like to buy a new clearaudio concept V2 based on just one person's review, and am still looking for another reviewers opinions on this cartridge. i will also see what galen at galen carol audio has to say on Monday when i call him. thanks, john (long range plans do not include a TT upgrade, at least for now)

[neobop]

Regarding the sound of your table, I was going by what I've read.  That's all.  The mod I suggested should improve performance regardless.

Galen sells Clearaudio and Denon and I believe he'll give you 10% off with a trade-in on CA.  Audio Technica is the OEM for CA MMs and the 7V is a steal in comparison.  To get a wood body you'd have to go to the V2 Performer -that's $400 or more, but more importantly the 7V is a better cart IMO.  All the CAs except Maestro have straight aluminum cantilevers with bonded tips.  The AT95 and aftermarkets are the replacement stylus for all the CAs.  The 7V has a tapered cantilever with a nude square shank .2 x .7 elliptical.  The generator is similar to a Signet cart of yesteryear and the 7V has found a home in some high end systems. 
http://www.lpgear.com/product/AT7V.html

Just wanted you to have this info if you're buying new. 
Good luck,
neo

[Jeff K]

the speakers I have are actually selah audio verita monitors, put together by rick craig. IMO they sound pretty nice. I will contact him for yours and my own info regarding the crossover, as I was wondering about the crossover myself in recent times.

Good luck getting x-over info from Rick. Even though I think he's one of the most honest and best designers in the business, I've never know him to give out any specifics. He doesn't even divulge the cross-over frequencies. His stock answer to any inquiry that I've ever made or heard is, "It's proprietary."

His products are also among the most reasonably priced. I have Selah Galenas (Fountek ribbon, 7" SS Revelator, 10" Aurasound) and would not hesitate to purchase my next set from him, but I love these so much I doubt I ever will.

[hcsunshine]

Regarding the sound of your table, I was going by what I've read.  That's all.  The mod I suggested should improve performance regardless.

Galen sells Clearaudio and Denon and I believe he'll give you 10% off with a trade-in on CA.  Audio Technica is the OEM for CA MMs and the 7V is a steal in comparison.  To get a wood body you'd have to go to the V2 Performer -that's $400 or more, but more importantly the 7V is a better cart IMO.  All the CAs except Maestro have straight aluminum cantilevers with bonded tips.  The AT95 and aftermarkets are the replacement stylus for all the CAs.  The 7V has a tapered cantilever with a nude square shank .2 x .7 elliptical.  The generator is similar to a Signet cart of yesteryear and the 7V has found a home in some high end systems. 
http://www.lpgear.com/product/AT7V.html 

Just wanted you to have this info if you're buying new. 
Good luck,
neo

i gotta say, "wait a minute here" because: i had an audio technica table, i believe the AT-LP60 and it sounded like crap. maybe you're saying that the 7V cartridge is way better than the one in the AT-LP60? things just got way more confusing for me:(

[neobop]

Good luck getting x-over info from Rick. Even though I think he's one of the most honest and best designers in the business, I've never know him to give out any specifics. He doesn't even divulge the cross-over frequencies. His stock answer to any inquiry that I've ever made or heard is, "It's proprietary."

His products are also among the most reasonably priced. I have Selah Galenas (Fountek ribbon, 7" SS Revelator, 10" Aurasound) and would not hesitate to purchase my next set from him, but I love these so much I doubt I ever will.

You could always open it up and figure out the crossover.  If you do maybe it's better to keep it to yourself.  Seems like Rick really knows what he's doing and he's using some of the best drivers you can buy.  I went to his site and the specs are impressive.
neo

[neobop]

i gotta say, "wait a minute here" because: i had an audio technica table, i believe the AT-LP60 and it sounded like crap. maybe you're saying that the 7V cartridge is way better than the one in the AT-LP60? things just got way more confusing for me:(

Back in the day Japanese companies like Technics (Panasonic), Pioneer, Kenwood, Sony etc. made everything from cheap entry level stuff to top flight statement pieces.  Audio Technica is the same only specializing in transducers - carts, microphones and headphones.  The LP-60 happens to be an entry level type, sporting a $20 cart.  From what I've read, LP60 performance is unfortunate. 

AT also makes some excellent carts.  They've also made carts for other companies like Linn and Clearaudio.  Maybe you missed it the first time around, but all the Clearaudio MMs are made by AT including the Maestro.  Remove the stylus from any Clearaudio and you'll find an AT stylus/magnet assembly.  All Clearaudio MM specs are virtually identical to the AT-95.  When V2 first came out, some had stronger magnets for greater output.  If you go to Clearaudio site you'll see they are now scaled back to AT95 specs.  I think Clearaudio makes the wood tops or outer bodies.  You could buy an AT95SE or VL or SA and probably outperform the Concept V2.  I say probably only because I haven't made that comparison. 

The 7V is a different generator with a higher class stylus.  While the 95/CA is neutral sounding, I think the 7V will be slightly warmer with better resolution than a stock Concept. 
neo

[Jeff K]

You could always open it up and figure out the crossover.  If you do maybe it's better to keep it to yourself.  Seems like Rick really knows what he's doing and he's using some of the best drivers you can buy.  I went to his site and the specs are impressive.
neo

Rick has nothing to worry about from me.   I can judge roughly from test tones, but I'm not smart enough to look at inductors, caps, and resistors to determine slopes and frequencies.

[yeldarb]

I have a Denon DL-110 and compare it frequently to an Ed's Red with the LP upgrade stylus.  Both are very good; the LPG may be more balanced.  The Denon just kicks more butt.  It is hard to put into words, the difference.  Sort of like my old Dynaudio monitors vs. my Tekton Lores.  The Denon is more lively but may not be more accurate. 

Denons are still available for $140, but haven't seen any cheaper.  And when the stylus is done, a retipping is $$$.  And I have heard the AT95.  I think the upgraded Tracker is better.  YMMV.

I also have an AT 92 with an upgrade HE stylus.  Very smooth and detailed, but it is in an old linear tracking Technics.  The 92 comes with a bracket for "normal" mounting, but it may "ride low" and drag on some tonearms.  For a plug and play arrangement, it is very nice. 

[neobop]

I have a Denon DL-110 and compare it frequently to an Ed's Red with the LP upgrade stylus.  Both are very good; the LPG may be more balanced.  The Denon just kicks more butt.  It is hard to put into words, the difference.  Sort of like my old Dynaudio monitors vs. my Tekton Lores.  The Denon is more lively but may not be more accurate. 

Denons are still available for $140, but haven't seen any cheaper.  And when the stylus is done, a retipping is $$$.  And I have heard the AT95.  I think the upgraded Tracker is better.  YMMV.

I also have an AT 92 with an upgrade HE stylus.  Very smooth and detailed, but it is in an old linear tracking Technics.  The 92 comes with a bracket for "normal" mounting, but it may "ride low" and drag on some tonearms.  For a plug and play arrangement, it is very nice.

I had a DL160 - nice sounding cart.  I gave it to a friend.  He liked it more than I did.  He said it's a cart he could be happy with even if it was the last cart he ever owned.  How's that for an endorsement?

An online store called Comet Supply sells or sold grey market Denon carts at a substantial discount.  I think the 110 sold for around $90.  To view the carts or order you have to register with Comet and log in.  There was often wait time involved and I don't know if this is an ongoing thing. 
The price of the 110 brings up the question of retipping  when the needle is worn.  Soundsmith prices start at $150 for a new aluminum cantilever + elliptical tip.  Maybe someone else can do it cheaper, but for $140 you can buy another one.  Denon is famous for the quality and polish of their diamonds and the tip should last a long time.

I have an AT92E as well, but I've never used the body.  The generator is the same as the AT95, but comes with a sharper elliptical tip and compliance is higher.  This is of the same AT series (3400) as the 95, Linn K9 and all the Clearaudio carts.  To replace the stylus on CA (Clearaudio) choose a 3400 series stylus and cut away the plastic wings then pop it in.  For details or questions see the AT95 - Clearaudio thread below.  BTW, the AT92E is $21 at B&H and the stylus will outperform the stock CA in all but the Maestro, on an arm of moderate mass. 
neo

[hcsunshine]

so, I gather that the 7V is a good cartridge. so exactly what is it called? the clearaudio 7V or the audio technica 7V or what?

[hcsunshine]

hi y'all. I just spoke with galen of galen carol audio about putting a new cartridge on my music hall mmf-2.2 TT. first he said that most people when upgrading with this table would just get a whole new TT and go that route. I told him that folks on this forum were suggesting the audio technica 7V cartridge. he said he would not steer me away from that, but also didn't know if it would be a step sideways. he suggested a grado cartridge. I think I am gonna stick with the cartridge that came with my TT for now, as it sounds pretty good to me. thanks for all y'all's help. john (I was looking for maybe just a lil more clarity and accuracy and possibly a lil more bass) happy listening!

[neobop]

hi y'all, I own the music hall mmf-2.2 TT and am using the cartridge that came with it, the music hall tracker. I'm thinking of switching out the cartridge with a better one. one person (on another forum) suggested the clearaudio concept V2 cartridge ($250). is this a good idea? would it make my sound better? does anyone have experience with this cartridge and if so, how do you like it? can anyone think of a better bang for the buck in a cartridge at the $250 level? I don't want to spend more than this as it's "only" a $450 TT. any replies welcome. thanks, john.

Minn Mark gave you a lousy suggestion, calling a dealer.  Galen politely blew you off.  Of course he wants to sell a table.  AT isn't one of his lines so he planted the seed of doubt without actually saying anything negative.  That's an old salesman trick and it worked didn't it? 

Do you know how to mount and align a cart?  Maybe we assume too much.

You started this thread asking about the Concept or alternatives.  Grado is an entirely different sound, characterized by a lush midrange (vocals), boomy bass depending on model, and a mellow high end.  If Galen suggested it, I'm sure he sells it.....

If you're keeping the tracker get the stylus for $65.  Link is above.
I think I'm done with these kind of threads.  What a waste of time.
neo