Omega vs Decware vs Cain&Cain

Inscrutable · « **on:** 26 Aug 2004, 02:13 pm »

Lions, and Tigers, and Bears ... Oh My!

I am sampling the world of hi-eff and single-ended flea amps. Until I decide if it is my cup of tea, I will probably buy/sell used. What I'm wondering is just how many different models, or how high up the food chain, I'll need to go to really get a good idea of their strengths and my preferences and happiness.

I can find staunch supporters and afficianados of all the mentioned brands (and of course we may be a bit biased toward Louis because of his familiarity and contributions here). Any inmates with personal experience with more than one of these?

As of this minute, I can close a good deal on a pair of Super 3's and a pair of Abby's. I'm also considering DIY'ing the HDT's. I'm even flirting with getting all 3 for my own shootout ... although this could turn into a shootING with my wife

I guess I'm a little concerned that if I 'cheap-out' on the Super 3's, and I don't happen to like them, I may not have really learned anything. By the same token, I'd hate to pass-over them unnecessarily for something more expensive.

FWIW, I've bought a Decware Zen SE84B, and I'm thinking of calling Don Garber about a Fi-X. I understand there may be significant synergy issues (obviously, Steve must prefer to pair his own amps and speakers ... and Terry says that Don's amps are the best for his (at least in my price range))

That's probably enough rambling for now. Any clarity will be appreciated.

J@ck · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Aug 2004, 02:32 pm »

You can find a review for Super 3R and Abby in the Omega forum here.
The HDT seems promising but there are too few people actually heard/own it. I have read some extreme reviews about HDT, some said it's great (most in Decware forum), and some feel it is plain and not exciting(in AudioAsylum).
There are also other choices, like the Reference 3A speakers, Lowther products(I forgot the name, but there is a pipe like lowther speaker design sounds very good) are very interesting too.
You could also try some of the David Berning's or bottlehead's amps, they are all very good.
I am using Super 3R now and I am pretty happy with it. I am thinking to get a new bottlehead's SEX amp to drive them. I am using a restored Fisher 400 with Super 3Rs now.
Happy hunting.

Carlman · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Aug 2004, 02:39 pm »

I hope you don't mind that I would like to sponge off of your experience. I hope there's not a shooting... I have been 'cut-off' from any hi-fi spending for a while... and I agree things have gotten crazy. So I can't contribute other than what I already have or am borrowing.

I'd be interested to see how the Minimax 8w tube amp compares in all of this... Would you care to hear it? I think high-eff speakers would be a better match than the NHT's.

You're looking at everything I would've wanted (and then some) to hear for a low-power/high-eff small room system. So, I think it's a great line-up. I hope others chime in with more experience and interest.

-Carl

Marbles · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Aug 2004, 02:45 pm »

The nOrh high effeciency speaker looks interesting as well.

100 dB sensitive transmission line with Super Horn

Transmission line loudspeakers are not very common. They are expensive and complicated to build. Our new loudspeaker uses a 8 inch full range Fostex driver and matches it with a custom designed horn tweeter. The overall sound is amazingly smooth and dynamic. The 100 dB is the ideal loudspeaker for anyone who has low powered amplifiers -- particularly single ended tube amplifiers. The 100 dB is probably one of the most reasonably priced loudspeakers to achieve this level of performance and sensitivity on the market. The price of the 100 dB is $1295.00 per pair shipped.

Hantra · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 Aug 2004, 03:19 pm »

Abbys are very nice. I can recommend them highly. They, along with the Carolina Audio Jordan speakers are the best high-sensitivity speakers I have heard at their price point.

If I could do BEN's in my room, I'd have a pair. As good as the Abby is, the BEN is just simply earthshatteringly good!

lcrim · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 Aug 2004, 05:31 pm »

I have the Decware Select (SE84CS) and use it to drive Parker Audio 95 MKII's. The Select and the earlier 84B are happiest with low impedance drivers like the 2 ohm drivers in the Parkers.
Louis @ Omega does make the TS33 that can be set up as a 4 ohm load specifically with the Decware Zen amps in mind.
The Abbeys are absolutely terrific speakers (I would love a pair myself) but with these flea powered SET's synergy is everything and there are better pairings than with the 84B.
Good luck

Inscrutable · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Aug 2004, 10:44 pm »

Larry,

Quote

the earlier 84B are happiest with low impedance drivers

that's what i'd heard, too ... which kinda goes against the layman's grain of what's 'easy' to drive

Quote

The Abbeys are absolutely terrific speakers (I would love a pair myself) but with these flea powered SET's synergy is everything and there are better pairings than with the 84B

Yeah, Terry said in my range, the Fi 2A3's can't be beaten

B,

Quote

Abbys are very nice. I can recommend them highly. They, along with the Carolina Audio Jordan speakers are the best high-sensitivity speakers I have heard at their price point

yeah, I heard the Abby's in Vegas paired with Art Audio, and I was impressed. I may be mistaken, but I thought the CA Jordans weren't all that efficient? I've also found a pretty good deal on a black pair of those. Their footprint (width) might end up being a problem for me.

Marbles,
Yes, that nOrh does look interesting. Anyone hear it?

Carl,
You are welcome to live vicariously thru me at any time ... I've certainly done enough of it with others myself

I'd love to hear the EE with these when they come in, and whatever I end up with for amps I'd be glad to cart over to your place as well.

Jack,
I'm disappointed to hear about the spotty HDT reviews. If I diy'd I'd have way less than $1k in the Zen/HDT combo.

Quote

There are also other choices, like the Reference 3A speakers, Lowther products

Yes, I heard Royal Virtuoso's in Vegas, and was very impressed. Still, they're only 92dB, so not really SET-friendly. But I bet they sing with 15 good watts. I am not aware of any Lowther-based products in this price range?

You have Super 3R's - what would you say about the difference from the base Super 3's? The wiring and posts are the major upgrades - which I assume I could add myself? And I haven't even looked at DocB's site for an amp. Duh!

Hantra · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Aug 2004, 11:00 pm »

Quote from: Inscrutable

I may be mistaken, but I thought the CA Jordans weren't all that efficient? I've also found a pretty good deal on a black pair of those.

Hmm. . .Well, I suppose I just assumed they were pretty efficient. Come to think of it, I haven't seen any numbers on them.

They do sound great though! I think Scott's driving a pair with 20 watts.

B

Inscrutable · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Aug 2004, 11:04 pm »

B,
I could be off the charts, but I was thinking they're actually in the mid-eighties. Not really SET-friendly, unles it is a $$$$ one.

Hantra · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Aug 2004, 11:09 pm »

Yikes!

I had no idea. . .

Inscrutable · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 Aug 2004, 11:24 pm »

B,
I checked his site ...it's 88dB ... not as bad as I remember, but not 2wpc friendly

J@ck · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Aug 2004, 03:32 am »

I don't have a chance to listen the Super 3s for long, so I couldn't tell you the difference between Super 3s and 3Rs.
The Super 3 is around 93db too, a 2 ~ 3 watt amp should drive the Reference 3A's 92db loud enough for a small to medium room.
The Lowther design I was talking about is the Rethm speakers. They are a bit out of your budget but they are very nice speakers.

Tbadder1 · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Aug 2004, 03:56 am »

Well, I heard the Abbys and the Omegas but not the Decwares. I've owned the Moth Cicadas (still have them, anyone want to buy) and assorted lowther drivers and cabinets. I own the Zu Druid Blacks, and this is how I rate them.

1) Zu Druid Blacks
2) Cain and Cain Abbys
3) Moth Cicadas
4) Omega Super 3s

In a month or so I'm going to write a very long review of the Blacks. I think they're outstanding. Sealed cabinet--ten inch driver with super tweeter, superior construction materials. They don't look as good as the Abbys, and the Abbys are excellen, can't make a mistake buying them, but the Zus are the rock blockin' beat imho.

I think the Cicadas and the Omegas are stirctly 2nd/bedroom system speakers (fine ones, but not in the league with the other two).

If the Zus are a 10, then the Abbys are an 8.5, and Cicadas a 6 and the Omegas a 5.

Inscrutable · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Aug 2004, 08:52 am »

Jack,
Yes, I've heard two Rethm's (2nd, and 3rd), and I might have mentioned that if I found a great deal they'd be on my list. I think the smallest (3rd's) list at $2500. But again, the Decware Zen probably won't like them too much.

Tbadder1,
Thanks for the input. I'd not seen the Zu before. Found a review on Soundstage, and they sound interesting, albeit out of my range right now. I like the red finish in the article, but I guess you have to have the right room decor ... or wife

J@ck · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Aug 2004, 05:22 am »

I am using the super 3Rs with a subwoofer, a CSS sub, the result is wonderful.

http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=CLARUSX10200

They both are very very fast, and this is the main different I found between Super 3 and Abby.
I have tried the Moth speaker before too, but I don't like it much. The sound can be sharp and lack of bass easily. I would prefer a true lowther speaker.

Inscrutable · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Aug 2004, 09:42 am »

Well, I've gone off the deep end, and bought all of these:

Abby's
Super 3's
Fi-X integrated
Decware SE84B

We'll see how it shakes out. Of course, I'm prejudiced for the Fi/Abby combo, but at less than 1/3 the $, it'll be interesting how the Dec/Omega stacks up.