[John Casler]

The VMPS woofer Challenge    

Well the madness has begun.

Not long ago I posted that I envisioned 3 pair of LARGER SUBS "stacked" atop each other (3 on a side) for my system.

Well the first 3 subs are here, and the fourth will arrive in a few days.

At this very moment, I only have the two new LARGERS hooked up and breaking in a bit.  

At this point it is basically to the level of what I was looking for, but I "WILL" go with the 4 to break the record for "most LARGERs in one room at one time, in a musical 2 channel system".  

If I feel it nessessary, (I would need challengers) I will then put the VMPS Woofer record into the Clouds (see my AVATAR to the left) by going with the last two (6 LARGERS in all)

If anyone cares to try and break the record let me know, I could be talked into even more.  I have alread planned to place the 4th pair to "flank" the bottom pair.

In recreating the size, power, impact, and weight of a "LIVE" performance the hardest thing is to produce and move the air in the lower registers.  Even the two LARGERS shows me this.  Four will be even better and Six will approach the grandiosity of most any Concert Hall or Symphonic Shell in the world.

And let it not be "misunderstood" my goal is "musicality", not BAAAABOOOM!  

And I might add that I certainly know of "single box" high x-mass Subs that come to the table with plenty of "FirePower" for similar cash.

FFFFFFtttttt! you can hav'em.

Anyone who has ever heard the Woofer Towers of Arnie's old IRS system knows that bringing the drivers up to ear level adds a whole new dimension to woofage

So as I stack these the drivers to approach ear level, the sound and music should be incredible.

Challengers are Welcome  

Woof! Woof!

[zybar]

John,

You must post pics - please!!

Hmmm, if I buy two more Larger subs and stack them, that would give me four.

What am I saying?  

Somebody smack me.  

George

[nathanm]

I did stack my two largers one time.  (A VMPS Full Stack? )It wasn't bad but I preferred them one in each corner instead.  It definitely looked pretty bad ass though!  Perhaps too much so for my tiny room.  I'm sure if you have got a big space it would make sense.  You hear more of the upper rolloff area of the crossover when they are higher up.  I didn't care for the somewhat disjointed sound betwixt the mains and the subs in that configuration.  You guys with larger rooms have got it good!  I'd need a flatbed trailer full of fiberglass to even out my bass if I played them wide open without EQ!

[woodsyi]

John,

I think you are going nuts.  All the shaking in your brain is loosened a screw or two.

On the business side, Big B and I have solved the logistical problem of cabinet upgrade and FST upgrade.  Now I have a dilemma.  Would you take the one LSW in light oak finish back and sell me two in African Ebony to match the RM 40's?  It's only been a couple of months.

[ctviggen]

My problem with four woofers (two, I wouldn't mind trying) and trying to recreate the sound of a real concert/performance is that most real concerts are way, way too loud. Even with hearing protection, I'll still have ringing in my ears after seeing a concert.  I wouldn't mind having some more low bass, but I really don't want my system to reproduce the volume produced at a live event.

[woodsyi]

I totally agree with you.  My ears were still ringing the day after a Simon and Garfunkle concert.  I had figured I wouldn't have to put ear plugs in for the old duo.  Wrong.  I got "stuck" in front of the mega stack of speakers.  I got blown away by the sound of silence!

[John Casler]

John,

I think you are going nuts.  All the shaking in your brain is loosened a screw or two.

On the business side, Big B and I have solved the logistical problem of cabinet upgrade and FST upgrade.  Now I have a dilemma.  Would you take the one LSW in light oak finish back and sell me two in African Ebony to match the RM 40's?  It's only been a couple of months.

I recently "tightend" all my screws, but I'll check.  

As far as the African Ebony Subs, they are currently not available in that finish.  The LARGER only comes in Lite and Dark Oak, Piano Black and I think we might have a few Cherry.

[John Casler]

John,

You must post pics - please!!

Hmmm, if I buy two more Larger subs and stack them, that would give me four.

What am I saying?  

Somebody smack me.  

George

Hi George,

I'll post some pics when the other sub arrives.

I can see a couple more LARGERS in your future.  I think that K2 will push 2 ohms a channel

[nathanm]

My ears were still ringing the day after a Simon and Garfunkle concert.

Wow, there is something fundamentally wrong with that sentence!   Yikes!

And what was it again, like $350 to see their show?   Yeah now I'm broke AND I have tinnitus, thanks sound crew!

[John Casler]

My problem with four woofers (two, I wouldn't mind trying) and trying to recreate the sound of a real concert/performance is that most real concerts are way, way too loud. Even with hearing protection, I'll still have ringing in my ears after seeing a concert.  I wouldn't mind having some more low bass, but I really don't want my system to reproduce the volume produced at a live event.

Hi Bob,

I certainly agree with things being too loud (I must be getting old), but I think most hearing damage is actually caused by frequencies above 100Hz (except for huge SPL's like in an explosion)

What I am finding, is what I have been reading lately about even distribution of bass frequencies throughout a room is affected by the height of the driver.

I have also found that the bass at "lower listening" levels is far more involving and has a more lifelike size and depth (3-D depth)

I think part of this is also why I'm not a big fan of "down firing" woofs, except for the very lowest of frequencies (below 40Hz)

[doug s.]

john,

i agree about the irs' woofer towers - the only bass i've ever heard that's competetive w/a pair of vmps larger subs.  

since ya have four largers, please do try a pair of 'em in the back of yer room, wired outta phase, as well as what yure wanting to try.  my intuition tells me that this would really help w/room loading/distribution...  i'd love to hear some feedback from someone who's actually tried it!    

doug s.

btw - any chance that mr cheney will offer larger subs in original dimensions, if requested?

[sbcgroup1]

Well, I'm just using one of the big subs because it fits best that way. I may add another one way down the road...

Anyways, I want louder bass. I'm getting clipping with my cinenova and am contemplating running another cinenova channel into it. I thought I would get a sub with one 4 ohm input, but I think they only come with 2 8ohm inputs...so less wattage = sux. Any ideas how to really push this thing lots more??? Jumpers?

-Ed

[doug s.]

if ya have a larger sub w/separate inputs for each driver, connecting them together will give a 4 ohm load.

doug s.

Well, I'm just using one of the big subs because it fits best that way. I may add another one way down the road...

Anyways, I want louder bass. I'm getting clipping with my cinenova and am contemplating running another cinenova channel into it. I thought I would get a sub with one 4 ohm input, but I think they only come with 2 8ohm inputs...so less wattage = sux. Any ideas how to really push this thing lots more??? Jumpers?

-Ed

[woodsyi]

Ed,

2 Cinenova grand 3's and 1 Parasound 1500a give you 8 channels of amplification.  If you run a 5.1 system and biamp the RM40's you only get 1 channel left for you sub.  Sounds like you need to call John and get another amp! FYI, I am running 500 W into each 8ohms tab on a Larger.  No clipping.  I did not have any clipping when I ran 800W into 4 ohms driving both woofers either.  So, the solution is to get another amp or trade in your grand 3 to 5's.

[John Casler]

Well, I'm just using one of the big subs because it fits best that way. I may add another one way down the road...

Anyways, I want louder bass. I'm getting clipping with my cinenova and am contemplating running another cinenova channel into it. I thought I would get a sub with one 4 ohm input, but I think they only come with 2 8ohm inputs...so less wattage = sux. Any ideas how to really push this thing lots more??? Jumpers?

-Ed

Ed,

Sounds like you are only driving one woofer, as Doug said the binding posts need to be strapped.  I think the instructions on the bottom should tell you how to do this.

The CineNova will blast you out of the room, unless you are getting cancellations with the RM40s.

I'm running TWO!! Largers off of one CineNova Channel (1000wpc@ 2 ohms) and haven't seen the amp clip so, I think your probably "overdriving" the single 12" driver.

Make sure all speakers and subs are properly phased.

Corner placement of the sub will also add to overall performance for HT dynamics.

As I posted you already, make sure and remove a marble sized peice of putty, and let the sub break in for 50+ hours before blasting it (although B has probably already given it a pretty good workout before it left)

DO NOT RUN A SUB IF THE AMP IS CLIPPING!!

[sbcgroup1]

Strapped 'em last night. So far so good. Will test them further with my reference Texas Chainsaw Massacre DVD tonight after I am able to get to that damn OSD screen to further tweak the pre-pro.

I'm posting pics in the gallery section of this site today...

-Ed