Are cables important?

tantus · « **on:** 18 Feb 2003, 06:45 am »

Some say yes, yet others say no. What in your opinion on the subject?

JohnR · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Feb 2003, 07:09 am »

I'm not so sure it's a question of whether they are important, it's a question of *how* important.

Personally, I make my own cables from limp spaghetti, sprayed with gold fleck paint and lifted off the floor with used coffee cups from Peet's (Starbucks cups don't sound as good).

bubba966 · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Feb 2003, 07:14 am »

Everything in the chain is important. I'm talking about everything between your breaker box & your listening position.

Having quality components along every step of the way will help improve your setup. You don't need to go overboard with it all though. You'd be very surprised what just changing the duplex AC outlet in the wall will do for you. And you don't need to get the super expensive audiophile outlet for an easily noticed improvement. A $10 outlet will go far.

My experience with cabling has shown that a decent cable with a good high quality connector will make substancial imrovements. That applies to all cables. Power, Speaker, Digital, Analog, etc.

nathanm · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Feb 2003, 04:07 pm »

They are important indeed. Without them the electricity would have no way to get to the speakers.

audiojerry · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Feb 2003, 04:27 pm »

Well, I guess that settles it.
Nothing else needs to be said on this topic.

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Feb 2003, 04:35 pm »

Quote from: nathanm

They are important indeed. Without them the electricity would have no way to get to the speakers.

There are wireless speakers out there!

nathanm · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 Feb 2003, 05:02 pm »

Yes, but do they have a built-in CD player?

Still need that interconnect!

Anyway tantus, my opinion is that you should take care of other issues first and then fine tune with cable options after you are already happy with the sound you're getting. One advantage of these pricey cables is that they usually have nice connectors, and that's what separates them from the molded plastic stuff from Radio Shack etc. But you don't NEED to spend 300 bucks to get a good plug. (you need to spend 300 bucks to get flexo sleeving and personalized shrink tubing!

)

Find speakers that have the tonal balance you like and play around with speaker positioning and presence of objects in your room until you are rockin'. Then if you still wanna option other cables the door is open for you.

If I may use a food metaphor; If the main dish is not to your liking then it doesn't pay to fret about a dash of spice vs. two dashes of spice and a sprinkle of salt.

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Feb 2003, 09:45 pm »

Well gentleman: How would the folks on Audiocircle feel about me sending out a set of the interconnects that I make as DeZoral did for it's line filters? If it's O.K. with the facillitators of the forum, and all involved, it's O.K. with me.
The analog interconnect is a microphone cable from Belden. The Belden# is 8422. It has a twisted pair and a braided ground shield. No fancy jacket covers. One side of the twisted pair is "hot" and the other side of the twisted pair is tied at both ends of the braided ground shield. Capacitance is 100 pf per meter. I recommned it to all the DIY guys here: it's one of the most neutral analog interconnects out there. The connectors are gold plated and are pretty heavy duty.
Will two pair of one meter interconnects be sufficent?

Carlman · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Feb 2003, 10:01 pm »

Dan,
Sounds similar to Kimber PBJ in concept, design, and results. Which is good because, that's what I'm using throughout my system. If you start a new thread with the title 'free interconnect trial' you'll probably get a lot of positive responses... including one from me. That is.. if you want a PBJ comparison which is the best I can offer. The lengths sound right for most applications.
Thanks,
Carl

PS, as to the original post, yes, no, maybe.... and it depends. It's part of 'tweaking' which is something that requires experimentation for a desired result. If you don't hear an improvement, it wasn't worth it... hey... that should be my signature!

KevinW · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Feb 2003, 11:48 pm »

Cables *definitely* make a difference in your system. Just like any other component, you will want your cables to be of relatively similar quality to the rest of your system. For example, you don't want $10 cables to connect $1k components. Also, cables definitely have a sonic signature that may or may not have "synergy" with the rest of your system and your musical tastes. Trial and error is the only way to know that for sure, so cables with a return policy are nice. You can also fine tune and tweak the sound by swapping cables, and a good salesman will be able give you some inkling how their cables will affect your sonic signature.

I'm going to go out on a limb, and recommend spending 15-20% of your total system cost on cables. This is based on my personal experience of the relative cost-benefits of the various cables that have moved through my ever-evolving system. I have noticed a benefit in that price range, and going over it results in diminishing returns. Of course, some cables represent better cost-benefits than others... You would be doing pretty good with any of the manufacturers represented here.

I can't wait for people to debate those numbers above... I'm bracing myself for lots of fun.

In fact, I think I can already predict some of the responses! (wish there was an emoticon for putting on flame-proof underwear)

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Feb 2003, 12:36 am »

Well Kevin, do you have your fireproof suit on? and do you have a net to fall into as the tree limb your standing on breaks?
If I used the 15% to 20% figure you gave for a ratio between hardware and cables, my cables would have to be one heckuva lot more expensive than they are now. Then again; I'm not a retailer. I'm in the direct mail business. I guess that might give me a whole other perspective.
Kevin: I have had a number of people send me samples to demo. All have been returned. None have even been remotely considered. No matter what the price. Half the reason I offer the Belden 8422 is I have run in to too many situations where the "designer" cables have been so audibly inferior that I when I replace them with the Belden 8422 customers and friends simply say to me: Dan I'll send you check when I sell these high priced cables. I'm not waiting for any checks in the mail Kevin. Funny thing though, the only people who get pissed at me when I do this are retailers.

Marbles · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Feb 2003, 12:47 am »

Quote from: Dan Banquer

Well gentleman: How would the folks on Audiocircle feel about me sending out a set of the interconnects that I make as DeZoral did for it's line filters? If it's O.K. with the facillitators of the forum, and all involved, it's O.K. with me.
The analog interconnect is a microphone cable from Belden. The Belden# is 8422. It has a twisted pair and a braided ground shield. No fancy jacket covers. One side of the twisted pair is "hot" and the other side of the twisted pair is tied at both ends of the braided ground shield. Capacitance is 100 pf per meter. I recommned it to all the DIY guys here: it's one of the most neutral analog interconnects out there. The connectors are gold plated and are pretty heavy duty.
Will two pair of one meter interconnects be sufficent?

Hey that's OK with me....

I'm happy when ANY vendor wants to do that.

nathanm · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Feb 2003, 01:13 am »

Well, I hope Belden doesn't find out that audiophiles have started liking their cables! HAR! HAR! Goodbye reasonable prices!

KevinW: I myself don't know much about cables, but I will say that those Jena Labs ones ya'll carry are kinda cool looking, if a bit bulky and possibly impractical. I speak of those giant ones that look like OreIda Waffle Fries. Over-the-top designs appeal to me in a perverse way.

Perhaps a demo shootout is in order? Dan provides his Belden Econo-Performers and Kevin provides the Jena Labs Estrogen-Fortified Waffle Fry behemoths? It could be interesting... and cheaper to ship compared to the DeZorel trial I'd wager.

Just a suggestion!

Marbles: "vendor"

Brad · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Feb 2003, 01:28 am »

Dan B,

When you sell your interconnects, what do you sell them for?
I think the trial is a terrific idea.

1m is fine for me.

Thanks for the offer - I'm sure you'll get a lot of responses.

-Brad in Houston

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Feb 2003, 01:42 am »

O.K. guys;
Who wants to be the first one here? All I ask is that once one person is through they ship it to the next person. I am presently planning on shiping two pair of one meter analog interconnects unless I hear differently. Unfortunately for Marbles the cable jackets are a dull gray. No whorehouse red or pimp orange. Sorry
BTW I sell them for $49.95 per one meter pair. $10.00 for every additional meter. Big BUCKS!!!!!

nathanm · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Feb 2003, 01:58 am »

Cripes, at that price they must be TOTAL JUNK! That's like...relatively affordable. Nobody will buy that. Please Dan, stick a chunk of cocobolo in the middle and say it uses F.A.S.T.v2 Technology(tm) in a Proprietary Impedance-Matching Network. Then add gold cones under the cocobolo wood for special V-DAMP-HX(tm) isolation purposes.

But seriously folks; I agree, Dan's cables are frumpy-looking. (kinda like Cardas cables, except those are expensive) I suggest neon blue Flexo PET personally.

Brad · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Feb 2003, 02:19 am »

Dan,

I'd volunteer to go first!
Let me know who to ship them to next.

I just priced the 8422 at about $65/100ft.
By the time you add connectors and labor, I don't see how you maintain the audiophile recommended 3000% markup

Maybe we can order some whorehouse red tech-flex before they get to Marbles

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Feb 2003, 02:28 am »

Ok Brad, since you're in Houston and I'm in Dallas, I volunteer to be next in line.

Carlman · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Feb 2003, 02:42 am »

I'm in NC, and you can count me in. Please let me know when this will start.
-Carl

duff138 · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Feb 2003, 03:31 am »

I'd like to try out Dan's interconnects. I'm in NH, and since Dan's right in MA I can be last on the list so they'll be nice and broken in by the time the make it back to New England.