[ctviggen]

I assume that you'd first have to determine what the problems are.  Or is this right?  If it is, what products do people recommend?  Once I determine what room problems I have, how do I know what to do?  Or, is it better just to order a room pack from Eighth Nerve and then maybe some bass traps (like realtraps) and then see what the room response is like?  

I guess that what I'm confused about is why should I determine what my room's modes are if I just buy general-purpose acoustics products anyway?  For instance, let's say that I have a few room peaks/dips in a frequency response.  What would be the use in knowing these if I buy products that aren't necessarily tuned to help at those frequency ranges.  In other words, what's knowing the frequency response of a room give me in terms of knowledge that I can use to buy appropriate acoustics products?

[WilliamL]

Bob,


Since Roop is your dealer for your VMPS speakers--and he is also an Eighth Nerve dealer, I will be able to help you through him. I usually work with Roop on Eighth Nerve sales to people who are already his clients (I have to be careful about stepping on dealer's toes.) I would take some pictures of your room and send them along to Roop and I,  or just wait till Roop gets up there. He is trained in the Eighth Nerve product enough that he should be able to tell you what you need; if not I will give the support you need.

My bottom line advice: Lets get your speakers set up and then see what your room issues are.

Best Regards,
Bill Laurent

[ctviggen]

That's definitely true -- my new speakers need some break in and set up, although I've been thinking about room treatments for a while.  I do think this room has better acoustics than my old room, but I'd still like to work on acoustics.  I'll see what Roop says when he comes up.  Unfortunately, I have no time for anything until after the end of August.  I may, however, take a little time this coming Saturday evening to modify the tuning of the RM40s.  I think they sound pretty darn good now, but I'm sure some tuning will help, especially with the bass.  But I'm also adding brand new wires and interconnects this Saturday, so I may not be able to anything but that (unbelievably, this process takes a few hours, as I have to unhook everything, take all my stuff out of my rack, and put it all back together -- NEVER buy a rack that doesn't have rear access!).

[warnerwh]

Just a sidenote: Room tuning can easily make a HUGE difference.  Don't go without it unless it's mandatory.  It's funny how people spend thousands on their systems and ignore the room.  A 2K system in a treated room can easily outperform a 10k system in an untreated room. No B.S.  It's amazing.

[John Casler]

I assume that you'd first have to determine what the problems are.  Or is this right?  If it is, what products do people recommend?  Once I determine what room problems I have, how do I know what to do?  Or, is it better just to order a room pack from Eighth Nerve and then maybe some bass traps (like realtraps) and then see what the room response is like?  

I guess that what I'm confused about is why should I determine what my room's modes are if I just buy general-purpose acoustics products anyway?  For ...

Hi Bob,

Yes and No

First off YES you can add room treatment "without" doing any type of "measuring" for some things

And NO your can't do some specific treatments without having an idea what you need.

First off if you have corners, intersecting room boundaries, or tri-corners then they can and should be treated, no ifs and or butts

Secondly you can treat all points of first reflection.  Again this is true all of the time.

Third, it generally helps to trap bass, the only catch is how much, what frequency, and how best to catch it for the best result.  Here it is helpful to have some measurments, even if very basic.

Fourth, treat areas of "mass" reflection and interaction.  These are found all over the room, but the best place to start is the front wall behind and between the speakers.  The reason that the best place to start is the front wall, is that the front wall is the one that reflects sound toward you in a "direct" way.  That is, it competes with the sound coming from the speakers to form audio perceptions, such as depth, phase, image and body.

Hope that offers some ideas.

[orthobiz]

I have been listening to my room for a few months, very echogenic with untreated hard sheetrock walls, carpeted cement floor.

Once I am used to the room, I am putting up a bunch of 8th Nerve products. One of my first purchases included the boxes for the wall corners and the triangles for the ceiling corners.

I will soon put everything up and report back here. Two questions for 8th Nerve, and I don't think I'm hijacking...

1) I have desks in two room corners. Should I put the absorbing boxes just above the desk height or leave the wall to wall corners untreated?

2) I bought the Music Direct LP shelves and put that in one of the corners, so I assume that corner is untreated, except at the ceiling, right? Not worth moving the shelf out of the corner a couple of feet just to treat that corner, right?

PS I want to do a Music Direct LP shelf review some day, it's great, but PM me before you buy for a couple of tips!

biz

[Ethan Winer]

Bob,

John gave you some great advice. Especially about having bass traps in all corners and mid/high frequency absorption at the first reflection points. All rooms need these as a minimum, no matter what is measured.

> What would be the use in knowing these if I buy products that aren't necessarily tuned to help at those frequency ranges. <

Exactly. The best treatment for all rooms is broadband absorption that's effective to as low a frequency as possible. It's a mistake to try to match room treatment to perceived peaks and nulls, because "perceived" changes as you move around the room. There's a lot about this on our web site, with detailed technical explanations about why tuned absorption is rarely useful.

--Ethan

[8thnerve]

1) I have desks in two room corners. Should I put the absorbing boxes just above the desk height or leave the wall to wall corners untreated?

2) I bought the Music Direct LP shelves and put that in one of the corners, so I assume that corner is untreated, except at the ceiling, right? Not worth moving the shelf out of the corner a couple of feet just to treat that corner, right?
 ...

1) Ideally, you want to put the Framed Response just above the desk height.  If the desk is all the way up against the corner, that creates a tri-corner, so it is especially important to have a product in that corner.

2) You might be surprised.  However I will admit that I too have a bookcase in one corner of my main listening room that is untreated.  Since the books are rarely flat across the front surface, the corner formed by the bookshelf and wall is usually not that distorted.  You may want to stand one of your Frames in that corner if you have an extra one.  Anything to reduce the overall acoustic distortion will help.

Nathan

[ctviggen]

Thanks for all the good advice!

What if the first reflection point (on the side walls) is such that the sound reflected therefrom (lawyerspeak) wouldn't hit you?  I believe this is my situation (though I won't know until I can mess around with my new speakers' positioning).  My situation is further exacerbated by a fireplace on the "right" side of the room at a reflection point.  Can I "balance" this with a treatment on the left side of the room?  I'll have pictures of my room the first week in September (my girlfriend has a digital camera, but she's using it until then).  

I have taken rudimentary readings with my new speakers.  My old speakers (Linns, which have a rear-firing woofer) caused a hump in the mid-bass region.  My new speakers (VMPS) do not cause this same hump and appear to interact less with the room, although they have much better bass energy at low frequencies. (Perhaps the hump with the previous speakers was caused by the crossover?  I think I still have data from a previous house, so I'll look this up.)  But, my test tones only go from 1kHz to 20Hz in relatively coarse steps.

[warnerwh]

Get yourself the Rives test cd that is already calibrated for the rat shack meter.  It's twenty bucks well spent and I can tell you can afford it.  Glad to see someone else is doing something with their room acoustics. This is a huge portion of the sound we hear and should be on everyone's list of necessities. Spending thousands on a system in an untreated room is just a waste of money most of the time when acoustics are not so good or worse.

[ctviggen]

I do have to say that I like the sound I'm getting in this particular room, and that's regardless of speakers (although the VMPS are far superior to the Linns).  In fact, if I didn't know that acoustics products would benefit me, I wouldn't be posting.  I think the sound really is that good.