[ctviggen]

Hi Ed,

I do believe that my RM40s are getting better.  Last night, for instance, the bass really seemed to be better than when I first got the speakers.  As for trying it without the RM30C, my system wouldn't let me do this the last time I tried.  I could select "no center channel" but then it would give me an error of "invalid crossover configuration."  Unfortunately, I haven't had time to do any more testing, and won't for a while.  I have my RM40s out quite a bit from the wall (I'll post pictures soon -- your room looks great, by the wary).  I tried some minor amount of moving the speakers and moving away from the "back" wall made them sound better to me (although this reduces the bass).  However, I have a huge RPTV and matching stand between the speakers.  I have a CD I can send you that's made for burning in speakers -- it has a flat frequency response from about 10Hz up to 20 kHz (or higher?).  You just don't want to be in the same room while it's playing!

[sbcgroup1]

Bob-

I probably want to come over and listen to your setup...did you post pics yet? I've been so busy with work, I haven't been keeping up with the posts...  Do you have extensive room treatments?

Anyways, the speakers sound infinitely better now than when I first set them up. I'm at the point now where I need to listen to someone's setup that sounds better than mine (with better positioning, treatments, equipment, etc) to know where to adjust from here. Also keep in mind that my speaker placements (such as the rears, etc, are limited due to the fact that it is my living room and not a dedicated listening room. However, some of the suggestions you and John have made will definitely play on my mind. One thing I have to do is get decent speaker cables for my rears.

Anyways, the ribbons are breathtaking and have totally gotten me into listening to 2 channel music again (when my wife isn't hogging the system watching Steven Segal flicks...lol).

Right now, my settings are around 1:00 for mid and treble pots on the 40's for stereo listening. I think I want to back off slightly on the treble because it's a little bold. I've come to the realization I prefer 2.1 listening to multi channel audio. I also like the idea that the "sweet spot" isn't so damn narrow that you have to be within .0001 inches of a certain position or it will sound like crap. What's the point of that? I'll never go back to those "boxy" all driver configurations again.

What do you think the main difference is between our BCSE 40's and the RM/X?

-Ed

[zybar]

Ed and Bob,

Let me get my new speakers dialed in over the next few weeks.  After that, you can both come over and give a listen.

I hope to hear both of your systems in the near future as well.

George

[jermmd]

Ed,
I need the center channel mainly for watching movies outside the sweet spot.  I agree with George that when in the sweet spot the speakers image so well that there is no need for the center channel.

George,
Let me know if you guys set something up.  I'd like to come over too.

Bob,
Hopefully we'll get together next week.  If Ed's available then the more the merrier.

Joe M.

[zybar]

George,
Let me know if you guys set something up.  I'd like to come over too.

Joe M.

Joe,

You always have an open invitation.  

George

[Marbles]

Ed,
I need the center channel mainly for watching movies outside the sweet spot.  I agree with George that when in the sweet spot the speakers image so well that there is no need for the center channel.

Joe M.

Joe, I've run some experiments and even outside the sweet spot you don't really need a center channel for movies, at least in my setup I don't.

Now HI-Rez audio is another story.  You need one for SACD or DVD-A.

[ctviggen]

Ed,

My speakers are sounding good, but I haven't had time to do anything but a minor amount of putty removal (no tweaks at all to the center channel and only putty to the RM40s) and mess around with positioning.  I still think the system sounds great, although some putty removal is still in order and I still think a bit of positioning might be good.  I'm transferring jobs, so I'm taking next week off.  As for a system that sounds better, George's has to sound better -- his room is better and treated and he has better gear.  My room isn't treated at all (although I've found out that it's very close to a "golden ratio" room).  That's on my list of things to buy, but I want to pay off my speakers first.  

Joe, I'll be at home doing various things all next week, although Wednesday my GF is taking off.  That's the only day that's not good.  The other days, I'll be working on my truck, my car, finally programming my Pronto again, putting in an outlet, etc.  So anytime is good.

While I think that not having a center channel is a possibility, having it is good -- it kicks out the bass.  When I put on a movie or the Blue Man Group DVD, I can't believe how much bass comes out of the RM30C (and I haven't adjusted the putty at all -- and it definitely needs it, as it's a bit boomy).

[sbcgroup1]

George:

Sounds like a good idea. Honestly, with your ear, experience, and extensive expenditures in audio, I think you should become a speaker and amp designer yourself. Have you ever thought about it? "Audio By George."

Bob-

I totally agree that my center channel is essential w/Dolby Digital movies. The dialogue is so important to me (and having complete control of it) that it led me to push for getting a 30C. On the other hand, I have not done extensive listening matrixing the CC to the 40's. But, unless I'm missing something, why the hell would you want to matrix a dedicated digital CC feed? The only time I've ever really listened to a Dolby Digital feed  w/o a CC w/VMPS, was thru 2 RM/X's. I felt it really lacked dialogue big time. Everything was way too mixed together and not separated enough.

As far as multi-channel audio, I don't have much experience with SACD, etc. All I know is that when I matrix a CD with PLIIx, it sounds WAY inferior coming thru the CC. Right now, I am in love with 2.1 channel CD playback for audio listening purposes. The larger sub really helps compliment the 40's with the really natural low end it produces. Sounds like a live concert sometimes...

-Ed

[ctviggen]

Hi Ed,

Do you have the larger between the two speakers?  I've tried to use my sub with my Linns (not my RM40s, though), and I have the sub too far over to a corner.  I can hear where the sub is, and it drives me crazy.  So, I've set up my system to run the RM40s full range during stereo and with a 60Hz crossover (for now--I plan on doing additional testing) for movies.

[jermmd]

I have my sub against the side wall of my room (to the left of both speakers) and I absolutely can not localize the sound even crossed over at 80 hz.  I only occasionally listen to music (2 channel) with the sub on though.

My 2 channel listening bypasses my outlaw 950 unless I'm feeling lazy and use the CD changer for music.  Generally my CD changer is used as a catalog/CD holder and I play the CD's on my Xindac CD player to my Philly 7A Preamp to my amp to my speakers.  There is a notable loss of bass with this arrangement but the sound is otherwise incedibly good through the RM30's.

Joe M.

[ctviggen]

Maybe I'll have to retry listening to music with my sub (not a VMPS -- an SV sub).  I have this week off, so I can try again.  The only bummer is that the preamp I have uses one crossover setting for any speaker you put on the crossover.

[Brian Cheney]

The standard 80Hz HT characteristic for the .1 channel is not good with fullrange speakers like ours.

You can add a series inductor to your sub to lower the effective xover frequency.  If the sub is 8 Ohms, try 18mH in series with the input.  If the sub is 4 Ohms, 9 mH is the correct value.  Use 16 gauge or bigger coils.