[jsalk]

First, a little background...

Almost a year ago, a good friend asked us to build a pair of stand-mounted monitors using the Seas Exotica 8" high efficiency woofer and tweeter.  When I first fired them up, I recall immediately thinking I was listening to something really quite special.  But the drivers were quite expensive and the design only played down to 51 hz. 

I liked them so much, though, when we left for the Rocky Mountain Audiofest last October, I decided to take them along.  Needless to say, the reaction to them was very positive.  So we added them to our web site.  Of course, $6000 is somewhat pricey (although certainly worth it for the right application) for a speaker that only plays down to about 51 hz. But based on the feedback we received at RMAF, I felt the need to develop a 3-way model using these drivers.

Where to go from here...

The question is, what would we use for the woofer section?  If we used a high efficiency woofer (so as not to lose any sensitivity), the cabinet would be very large and the resulting speakers would still not play all that low. So, while certainly workable, it just didn't seem like the optimum solution.

At the time I was thinking about all of this, Brian Ding at Rythmik told me about a new dual 8" subwoofer design he was coming out with.  I thought this new design might play high enough to use in this application and provide bass down into the mid-20's or below.  If so, I thought that this might be the perfect solution. So we waited through months of production delays (always the case for new products) for the drivers and amps to become available.  Brian was kind enough to ship us some early units right off the production line so we didn't have to wait any longer than necessary to begin our testing.

We started with the basic Exotica 2-way (using the same Dennis Murphy crossover used in the Exotica 2-way).  But we didn't need it to play to 50 hz.  So we removed the front slot port and went with a sealed cabinet for what would become the midrange section of this new design.  This took the F3 from 51 hz up to about 110 hz, which means we would be relieving the woofer of some bass duties and increasing power handling in the process.

We then measured the roll off of the Exotica woofer and developed a complimentary cross to the dual 8" woofers.  Following that, we adjusted the phase and gain for the best possible crossover to what would become our woofer section.

We were able to tap off the speaker binding posts to generate the input signal for the servo amps (a separate amp for each driver).  So no separate preamp input would be required for the woofer section.

What we ended up with was a passive design for the tweeter/midrange section and a sealed, active, servo-controlled woofer section with 400 watts of power applied to each of the 8" woofers. 

Axpona  was coming up, so we decided to build a production cabinet and see if we might be able to preview this new design at the show.  Of course, we were still fine-tuning and didn't yet know if this would end up being a product we would release or not.  And since I don't like to talk about designs before they exist, I didn't want to say much more than we MIGHT have something new for the show.

As is often the case with products that are show-bound, we finally finished the first production pair of cabinets the day before we were leaving for AXPONA. So we still had nothing to announce.

Final assembly started the next morning and was actually taking place as we were beginning to pack the trailer.  We were able to get all the final assembly done in time, but didn't really have a chance to give them a good listen in their new cabinets.  So we brought a pair of SoundScape 8's for backup.

When we got to the show, we set up this new model in order to run it through its paces.  Right from the start, I knew it would remain in place for the duration.  And the reaction to them was universally positive.

I will take some pictures of this first pair when we get them unpacked.  And I would be happy to answer any questions as well.

That's the story and I'm sticking to it.

- Jim

[martyo]

Thanks Jim. We always appreciate "the story" behind the development of your speaker products. Sure sounds like a winner.
There were a couple different price tags posted on the forum, is there a price yet?

Good luck!!

[jsalk]

The base price will be $11,995 per pair.

- Jim

[Ern Dog]

Hi Jim,
How would you compare the sound of the SS8's with the new Exotica 3's? 

Thanks,
Ernie

[robcentola]

Sheeesh, now my dream speaker is torn between this and the SS8. What to fantasize about? What to save for? Oh my.....

[ernest787]

Sheeesh, now my dream speaker is torn between this and the SS8. What to fantasize about? What to save for? Oh my.....

seriously!

Can't wait for people to start purchasing these and posting impressions, especially compared to the SS8s

[mresseguie]

Well, my only experience with SS8s was at Axpona (oddly similar to my experience listening to the Exoticas and the STs) , but I was able to come to a couple conclusions.

First allow me to declare a preference for soft dome tweeters over ribbon tweeters. I didn't know this until this past weekend. I got to listen to so many different speakers from so many manufacturers that I am certain of my preference. I am still unable to find an adjective to describe ribbon sounds vs domes....perhaps 'surgical', or 'scalpel-like' (analytical??--Did I really say that?) rather than a soft enveloping sweetness?? [I know..."scalpel-like?!? WTH is he saying?] Whatever the adjective, I know what I prefer now.

It's possible I prefer 'standard' midrange cones over Accuton mids, but I want to spend more time comparing before I stand up and unequivocally declare a preference.

I was in the Salk/AVA room a total of 6 or 7 (8?) times during the three-day show, so I got to listen to all three speakers, but most of the time was spent on the Exoticas. I love the sounds that emanated from the Exoticas. Had I not heard the Exoticas first, I suspect I would not have noticed that anything was 'missing' from the SS8s. I think (want to believe??) that the bass was just a little better/faster in the Exoticas. I felt warm pleasure flow over my mind. Was I sitting in front of speakers or was I immersed in music? [I know I was immersed.] When Frank switched out the Exoticas to the SS8s, I detected a shift in the mid- and higher frequencies that resulted in a less warm feeling. I knew in a matter of seconds that I wanted Frank to switch back to the Exoticas.

Okay, I'm no expert audiophile reviewer, but you get what you paid for my opinion.

I think it was Saturday when I walked up to Jim to say, "I get it now. Now I know why so many people love your speakers, Jim."

[ltr317]

Well, my only experience with SS8s was at Axpona (oddly similar to my experience listening to the Exoticas and the STs) , but I was able to come to a couple conclusions.

First allow me to declare a preference for soft dome tweeters over ribbon tweeters. I didn't know this until this past weekend. I got to listen to so many different speakers from so many manufacturers that I am certain of my preference. I am still unable to find an adjective to describe ribbon sounds vs domes....perhaps 'surgical', or 'scalpel-like' (analytical??--Did I really say that?) rather than a soft enveloping sweetness?? [I know..."scalpel-like?!? WTH is he saying?] Whatever the adjective, I know what I prefer now.

It's possible I prefer 'standard' midrange cones over Accuton mids, but I want to spend more time comparing before I stand up and unequivocally declare a preference.

I was in the Salk/AVA room a total of 6 or 7 (8?) times during the three-day show, so I got to listen to all three speakers, but most of the time was spent on the Exoticas. I love the sounds that emanated from the Exoticas. Had I not heard the Exoticas first, I suspect I would not have noticed that anything was 'missing' from the SS8s. I think (want to believe??) that the bass was just a little better/faster in the Exoticas. I felt warm pleasure flow over my mind. Was I sitting in front of speakers or was I immersed in music? [I know I was immersed.] When Frank switched out the Exoticas to the SS8s, I detected a shift in the mid- and higher frequencies that resulted in a less warm feeling. I knew in a matter of seconds that I wanted Frank to switch back to the Exoticas.

Okay, I'm no expert audiophile reviewer, but you get what you paid for my opinion.

I think it was Saturday when I walked up to Jim to say, "I get it now. Now I know why so many people love your speakers, Jim."

Makes sense to me.  That immersion is an emotional connection to the musical reproduction of the system.  It's a connection similar to what you hear at a live concert, and one of the main things I'm looking for when I review an audio component.  The AVA/Salk room, as well as several other rooms, had the "immersion factor."

Cheers,
Paul Mah

[audiotom]

Great to hear Jim!

This sounds like a very engaging speaker

I love when you unveil something unannounced at a show
Will these be going to RMAF?

What is the sensitivity and ohm?

[fsimms]

The best way to compare speakers is the way that Jim and Frank did at Expona.  Yet, even with that advantage there can be other variables.  One of the biggest ones is synergy.  One speaker may respond best with one system over another system?  I have been optimizing my system for 6 months to sound best with my new amps.  I have been Changing tubes, preamp gain, RCA vs. XLR cables and such.  Different speakers or amps could be better with a different configuration.  On my system these changes produce very dramatic differences. 

Bob

[Austin08]

I agree with Bob.

And in addition. The SS8 is allowing me to hear every change I have made to my system. Things become so much easier to fine tune the sound to my liking. So far, adding BAT VK32se preamp make the biggest improvement after the Salk in my system. Everything are just richer and more alive than before.

[DMurphy]

"Well, my only experience with SS8s was at Axpona (oddly similar to my experience listening to the Exoticas and the STs) , but I was able to come to a couple conclusions.

First allow me to declare a preference for soft dome tweeters over ribbon tweeters. I didn't know this until this past weekend. I got to listen to so many different speakers from so many manufacturers that I am certain of my preference. I am still unable to find an adjective to describe ribbon sounds vs domes....perhaps 'surgical', or 'scalpel-like' (analytical??--Did I really say that?) rather than a soft enveloping sweetness?? [I know..."scalpel-like?!? WTH is he saying?] Whatever the adjective, I know what I prefer now.

It's possible I prefer 'standard' midrange cones over Accuton mids, but I want to spend more time comparing before I stand up and unequivocally declare a preference.

I was in the Salk/AVA room a total of 6 or 7 (8?) times during the three-day show, so I got to listen to all three speakers, but most of the time was spent on the Exoticas. I love the sounds that emanated from the Exoticas. Had I not heard the Exoticas first, I suspect I would not have noticed that anything was 'missing' from the SS8s. I think (want to believe??) that the bass was just a little better/faster in the Exoticas. I felt warm pleasure flow over my mind. Was I sitting in front of speakers or was I immersed in music? [I know I was immersed.] When Frank switched out the Exoticas to the SS8s, I detected a shift in the mid- and higher frequencies that resulted in a less warm feeling. I knew in a matter of seconds that I wanted Frank to switch back to the Exoticas.

Okay, I'm no expert audiophile reviewer, but you get what you paid for my opinion.
Cheers,
Paul Mah
[/quote]

I must say that I have never heard a dome tweeter that was as accurate in reproducing the sound of a live orchestra as the RAAL.  I'll go out on a limb and say that any preferences you heard for the Exotica were based on the midrange reproduction.  The Exotica tweeter is very smooth, and has a very controlled off-axis response.  But it can't match the extension or dispersion of the RAAL.   A quick A-B between any dome and the RAAL on program material that is rich in very high-order harmonics (cymbals, picollo, triangles) will reveal that in a second.  "Analytical" often translates into "Accuracy", and "warm" often translates into "something's missing,"  or perhaps something different in the midrange, not the tweeter.   In any event, I'm looking forward to hearing the new 3-way Exotica's at the Capital Audio Fest in July.   Jim and I will be sharing a room.  Of course, the Exotica's will be up against some very stiff competition--my $275/pr towers.   Not sure how good they sound, but  they come with a backup camera and GPS.   

[Austin08]

...... Not sure how good they sound, but  they come with a backup camera and GPS....

 

[mresseguie]

Dennis,
I dare not argue with you on the RAILs vs domes. I'll take your statement as a suggestion that I spend more time with a RAAL equipped speaker.

At that low price, I'll take ten pairs. 

I hope I get a chance to hear your speakers someday.

[Mudslide]

Dennis,
I dare not argue with you on the RAILs vs domes. I'll take your statement as a suggestion that I spend more time with a RAAL equipped speaker.

At that low price, I'll take ten pairs. 

I hope I get a chance to hear your speakers someday.

You may be in luck.  Where are you in Oregon?  I have a pair of Dennis' Philharmonic 2's with the RAALs (sorry, not the new affordable jobs).  And I'm with Dennis on this.  I've directly compared RAAL equipped speakers with many, many domed speakers of various stripe.  I'll never go back to dome...or to state it more accurately, I'm a nutty fan of the RAAL tweeters...especially WHEN PROPERLY INTEGRATED.  And that's Dennis' forte, btw.  The RAAL has clarity, accuracy and ease of presentation throughout its range and up to HF audio heaven.     (You likely will get near unanimity on that around these parts.)

All that said, I haven't heard the Exoticas which I expect are fabulous speakers.

[PMAT]

Initial impressions are just that. When I worked in stereo in the eighties we would put a new speaker together with the best front end in the store and get all bubbly and worked up on the "new" sound. We would use the speaker selector to put them up against everything in the store. After a few weeks it would all sort itself with a new pecking order. Sometimes the "new" ones would gather dust after that. Speakers that sounded so clear at first often were too fatiguing in the long run. I'm only saying this because in a show everything might be the new speaker to you. Hard to sort out in a short listening session for us regular Joes.

[mresseguie]

Mudslide,

I'm in Corvallis. Where are you?

Michael

[kingpin31]

First allow me to declare a preference for soft dome tweeters over ribbon tweeters. I didn't know this until this past weekend. I got to listen to so many different speakers from so many manufacturers that I am certain of my preference. I am still unable to find an adjective to describe ribbon sounds vs domes....perhaps 'surgical', or 'scalpel-like' (analytical??--Did I really say that?) rather than a soft enveloping sweetness?? [I know..."scalpel-like?!? WTH is he saying?] Whatever the adjective, I know what I prefer now.

I must admit that I was a big "soft dome tweeter" fan myself before I got my Veracity STs.  I'm not saying I would never buy speakers with anything else than ribbon tweeters ever again but the blend is so nice on the Veracity STs that I don't think it would be a major consideration, now.  In the past, I've had "not so good" to "bad" listening sessions with speakers which had a ribbon tweeters but realized that the blend - not the tweeter - just did not work for me.  With the RAAL, I have precision and incredible musicality but without harshness or fatigue and it's very enjoyable.

Now, Jim, when are you finally coming over to Europe (preferably southwestern France...) ?!  I want to hear these new Exotica 3 as well as the SS8 !!!

[Mudslide]

Mudslide,

I'm in Corvallis. Where are you?

Michael

If the east winds ever blow you over to Lincoln City, perhaps you can audition some speakers, especially Philharmonic Audio Phil 2's....see how you like the RAALs.   

[JonnyFive]

Why does the Exotica 3 use a dome tweeter versus a ribbon?  At 1.5 times the prices of the SS8s, wouldn't you be taking a downgrade to the high end performance?