[richidoo]

I read somewhere in the last couple months that it is (really) harmful to allow the needle to run in the gutter groove for a long period.  Something like the worst thing you could do to a TT. I do it all the time (oops) and I notice no negative effects to myself or the TT.
So is it true, and why?

A related question: Why isn't auto arm-lift included on new TTs today?

A barely related question: Who here has imagined contraptions to auto-lift the needle on modern TTs? Care to share? 

All opinions, serious and otherwise, are welcome.
TIA

[Charles Xavier]

Get a Q-UP

[Minn Mark]

Here you go:

http://www.needledoctor.com/The-QUP


I prefer not to let my needle play in the runout for any length of time. Seems my cleaning machine does a less-than-great job there so usually it is more noisy.  No comparison for a frame of reference. I have manual TT's, but one old one with auto lift/return. Don't seem to miss it when it's not there.

Happy hunting,

Mark

[skriefal]

I'm not aware of any reason why you should have any concern about letting the cartridge and arm spin in the run-out groove.  Sure, you are putting some wear on the stylus tip, but no more than would occur if the needle were traversing the modulated groove on the LP (and probably less).  So pick up the arm when it reached the run-out groove, but don't be too worried about it if you can't get to it immediately.

Why no auto-lift on new turntables?  The usual reason... cost.  And it is problematic to built in this feature on turntables with swappable tonearms.  Plus many vinylphiles believe that simpler is better.

[Quiet Earth]

I don't worry about it anymore. Every once in a while I am in another room when the record ends and it might spin the run-out groove for a minute or two. No big deal.

Most of the time I am sitting right there. Even so, I get up when I'm good and ready to get up. Don't sweat it.

[richidoo]

Thanks!

The Q-UP looks pretty cool. I'd worry about forgetting to reset it after each lift.   Maybe I need some memory pills? 

[WireNut]

 When I first bought my manual table about a year ago I was all worried about not having an auto-lift and started looking at the Q-up and no longer available Audio Technica arm-lift. Now I realize that if I'm gonna listen to vinyl, and that's all I listen to these day's, that I'm gonna get up and flip the LP over. It's become a no brain'er and just something I do, no worry's.
If I had the cash laying around I'd buy a Q-up if it fits my table.
Partsconxection sometimes sells them for $45.00, cheapest I've seen so far.

I also think manufacturers don't install them because of the complexity. Honestly, I like having a manual table now. Less is good  .

[bacobits1]

Expressimo still makes the "Lift" too.
http://www.expressimoaudio.com/lift.html

A lot of times there is no room to fit it.
That AT was one cool little piece.
I don't use anything here, If I'm playing vinyl I will be there in the room anyway.

[Wayner]

I have a semi-automatic table (Technics SL-Q2) for the times when I'm not paying attention.

[poseidonsvoice]

I read somewhere in the last couple months that it is (really) harmful to allow the needle to run in the gutter groove for a long period.  Something like the worst thing you could do to a TT. I do it all the time (oops) and I notice no negative effects to myself or the TT.
So is it true, and why?

A related question: Why isn't auto arm-lift included on new TTs today?

A barely related question: Who here has imagined contraptions to auto-lift the needle on modern TTs? Care to share? 

All opinions, serious and otherwise, are welcome.
TIA

Rich,

As you know, my equipment is all in a separate room with a separate entrance door. After a dozen or so albums of catapulting myself off the chair, through the door and into the other room to lift the arm of the Traveler, I just gave up and got a QUP. Best purchase in a long time. The time between the last track and hitting the run out groove is variable on records and as such unpredictable. The QUP takes care of that and is a cinch to set up. Resetting is just a click, just make it a habit:

1) Use records that have been cleaned.
2) Place record on table.
3) Place outer record ring with setting tool.
4) Place center clamp.
5) Turn on table.
6) Use cleaning brush and milty zerostatic device.
7) Clean stylus with zeroduster.
Listen to record
9) Reverse process after listening to record, but click the Q up unit as well.

I know it's a lot of steps but I realized with a rebuilt Sumiko Blackbird from Soundsmith, it's worth it. After about 10 or so records, I just check the tracking force to make sure it is stable. And every month or so, I clean the stylus with a liquid cleaner.

Of course you knew all that

Best,
Anand.

[macrojack]

Over the past dozen years I have seen many threads (here and elsewhere) discussing the mystery of why so few audiophiles remain committed to vinyl. Theories abound and discussions usually wander a bit. Many a preposterous theory has been offered up along with the more valid conjecture. Ultimately, it would seem that we have stumbled upon the correct answer just now. The digital guys have dropped, and avoided, analog due to a highly justifiable fear of The Run Out Groove. And really, who can blame them?

Wasn't the AT device called a Safety Raiser? Clever pun back then but Safety Razor, the foundation for said pun, has left our lexicon long ago. It referred to popular alternative to using the much more dangerous straight razor. Was it Gillette that invented that safety razor?

[Devil Doc]

Left your lexicon perhaps, but many folks still enjoy a wet shave with a safety razor and know full well the pleasure that can be had. And they know what a lousy shave those multiple blade monstrosities give. All the while picking your wallet for more and more and not giving a shave as good as was available nearly a hundred years ago. I guess, nearly the same could be said about vinyl.

Doc

[poseidonsvoice]

Over the past dozen years I have seen many threads (here and elsewhere) discussing the mystery of why so few audiophiles remain committed to vinyl. Theories abound and discussions usually wander a bit. Many a preposterous theory has been offered up along with the more valid conjecture. Ultimately, it would seem that we have stumbled upon the correct answer just now. The digital guys have dropped, and avoided, analog due to a highly justifiable fear of The Run Out Groove. And really, who can blame them?

Wasn't the AT device called a Safety Raiser? Clever pun back then but Safety Razor, the foundation for said pun, has left our lexicon long ago. It referred to popular alternative to using the much more dangerous straight razor. Was it Gillette that invented that safety razor?

Left your lexicon perhaps, but many folks still enjoy a wet shave with a safety razor and know full well the pleasure that can be had. And they know what a lousy shave those multiple blade monstrosities give. All the while picking your wallet for more and more and not giving a shave as good as was available nearly a hundred years ago. I guess, nearly the same could be said about vinyl.

Doc

A bit off topic but I just started using a safety razor with a wet shave. As an Indian, I get pretty hairy as you might imagine. So finding something that lets me shave every 3 days was awesome! And it feels great. The cost is a bit steep in the beginning but it pays off. I just returned from a trip to Singapore and purchased 200 blades for about U.S. $10. That will last me about 18 months. And yes, I use a preshave oil, a badger brush and then an aftershave. Since it takes about 20 minutes, I only shave in the evenings but the feeling is priceless!



King Camp Gillette indeed popularized the safety razor in 1901! It sounds like the safety razor was around since the mid 19th century but using a forged blade at the time.

I guess we can see why I have my neuroses with vinyl (see my post above!).

Best,
Anand.

[kevin360]

I'm just curious about the 'less is better' comments in regard to tonearm auto-lift. At least in my Thorens (had it for 33 years now), it is effected simply by watching the rotation of a shaft (okay, the speed at which the timing marks move). There is nothing physically connected to the tonearm for sensing the dive into the gutter. Deleting this feature has no impact on the TT's performance beyond a reduction in cost and ergonomics. I am a fan of KISS (no, not the band), but I think the concept can be applied illogically. I see no rationale in support of omitting auto-lift for the sake of performance.