[Vapor Audio]

Well, not completely different ... but definitely a departure.

The top is a Sundog Black, but modified so there is a bandpass network on the woofer, making it a midrange.  The stand houses an 8" subwoofer and passive radiator, and is powered by a Behringer iNuke 1000DSP.  The Behringer gives plenty of DSP power to integrate and turn this into a true 3-way speaker, crossover between the Sundog and sub-stand is in the 230hz range.  Turning it into a 3-way increased sensitivity to 89db and also greatly increased the performance in terms of clarity, transparency, and made it sound like a MUCH larger speaker. 

In short this effort is a great success, and we'll look into ironing out the design and making it a permanent part of the lineup.  As a finished product the iNuke would be loaded with a few presets the owner could choose from for easy room tuning, or plug it into your USB and have full control of the DSP functionality.  The bandpass on the Sundog could also be done with a line-level passive crossover that will even further increase performance. 

[AluminatiSound]

Holy smokes!!!

Best,
Matt

[dragoonxp20]

Those stands look so nice.

[Guy 13]

Hi.
Definitely different.
Any specs?

Guy 13

[Pete Schumacher]

Hi.
Definitely different.
Any specs?

Guy 13

Sensitivity: 89dB (powered woofer in stand)
Response: 20Hz -50KHz  The monitor portion is within a +-1.5dB window from 250Hz to beyond audible.  The I-nuke amp allows tailoring of bass response to match room characteristics.
Weight:  Monitor portion - ~30 pounds.  Bass bin stands - ~80lb

[Guy 13]

Sensitivity: 89dB (powered woofer in stand)
Response: 20Hz -50KHz  The monitor portion is within a 1.5dB window from 250Hz to beyond audible.  The I-nuke amp allows tailoring of bass response to match room characteristics.
Weight:  Monitor portion - ~30 pounds.  Bass bin stands - ~80lb

Hi Pete.
Thanks.

Guy 13

[LateApex]

Love it.  Fantastic design.

Cheers,

Paul

[gregcss]

Looks neat. What veneer is that?

[Pete Schumacher]

Looks neat. What veneer is that?

I believe Brazilian Rosewood.

[SoCalWJS]

That's very nice looking Pete!

Where is it going to fit into your lineup? How's the soundstage?

Hey - are you planning on demoing at THE Newport Beach this year? Would be nice to listen to these if you take them. 

[Vapor Audio]

That's very nice looking Pete!

Where is it going to fit into your lineup? How's the soundstage?

Hey - are you planning on demoing at THE Newport Beach this year? Would be nice to listen to these if you take them.

Where it'll fit in the lineup is unsure, since it would have to compete against something else we already make price-wise.  However it's a unique enough solution to justify that I think.  Another interesting part of this are all the options - we could do the same thing to pair with a Breeze, Cirrus, Arcus, etc.  Each one would be customized to match the look and visual weight of the upper half, and the Behringer would be pre-loaded with presets to best optimize the combination. 

Drivers used for the sub section, and how many of them are used could also change for different applications.  For a sub-stand to pair the the Arcus for instance, the single 8" sub would never have a chance of keeping up with the output the Arcus is capable of.  A different solution would be required, but we already have one in mind. 

Soundstage - I'm going to give you a lot longer answer than you probably asked for    Soundstage is not something you design for.  All of our speakers image as large as your room will allow, and are incredibly transparent.  But it's not because of a specific decision made during the design process.  Instead soundstage is something that just happens if you do everything right.  If you choose drivers with predictable behavior both in and out of passband, low distortion, and low energy storage ... put them in a cabinet with 0 resonances and edge diffraction ... and then blend it together with a crossover using quality parts that sums flat and gives and even power response, and has little phase shift - you end up with a speaker that images like crazy.  And while you doing voice the crossover for soundstage, you voice for tonal accuracy, if during voicing the soundstage isn't as immersive as it should be you know something somewhere isn't optimized.  And a huge part of that isn't just size and dimensionality of the soundstage, but also precision and stability of images inside that stage.  Movement of images inside the stage, especially front to back movement, and lack of focus of the images are both clues that you have more work to do.  And the funny thing about it is they're somewhat independent of the crossover, even when the crossover is 'off' I can tell if the cabinet is adding anything (any cabinet contributions are out of phase/time and will hurt imaging), or if crossover components are holding things back. 

So that's a long way of saying that yes, this speaker images like crazy.  It is quite impressive in that regard, it gives the impression of being a large full-range floorstander but still maintains the disappearing act of a small monitor. 

[Vapor Audio]

More added on soundstage - you can tell a lot about tonal balance by soundstage depth.  If you have good depth but little if any front to back layering inside that depth, that tells you the speaker has a British BBC style FR curve.  Vocals that always sit against the back wall means that the vocal range is depressed slightly.  However if the soundstage has ability to either focus against the back wall or anywhere forward of there up to a plane even with the speakers, then you know the more FR is more level ... it typically takes +/- .5db from 300-1500hz in order to make that happen.  Very few speakers do that because it's walking a fine line, .5db too much somewhere in that range and the soundstage can jump forward into your lap.  Or if you use cheap crossover components the same can happen, also if drivers used aren't extremely linear and low distortion.   

So most designers go the safe route and let the soundstage sit against the back wall all time.  It's cheaper and easier. 

But I believe the soundstage should be able to move back and forth, and have that layering in depth.  It requires a careful balance, and voicing with a lot of varying recordings, but the result is a much more 3-dimensional soundstage.  The trick is if you allow as a designer for the soundstage to come forward, for it to remain totally stable in that position.  Nobody likes a soundstage that unpredictably jumps forward into your lap, but being forward and staying that is what close-mic'd recordings SHOULD do.  It gives the impression of dynamics intended with close mic'ing, and also makes them feel more intimate as intended. 

All of these things are a way I think we differentiate ourselves from most other speakers on the market.  But it's also something that can ONLY be achieved with careful voicing by human ears.  If there's a measurement that can tell you all those things, I'd love to see it!

[Vapor Audio]

Here's a better picture of the whole setup

[Rocket]

Hi Ryan,

It looks like another really good product from Vapor Audio.  Do you have a projected cost?  What drivers are you using in the top cabinet?

Regards Rod

[8snaces]

IMO - this is a brilliant design that offers many options with good flexibility.

I have a small-medium sized den that the Breeze or Sundog Black's would work well in, but I may be moving soon.

If this option was available as an add on, I could add the bottom sub at a later date if needed for a larger room.

I like the voicing of the Vapor line, and having this added sub-bass unit would be great.

Very nice forward thinking that I hope becomes available for most of the Vapor monitor's.

[rajacat]

Did you replace the fan in the iNuke or just disconnect it?  Do you think the SQ of the Inuke is good enough for a mid woofer? The built-in DSP certainly is handy.

[Pete Schumacher]

Did you replace the fan in the iNuke or just disconnect it?  Do you think the SQ of the Inuke is good enough for a mid woofer? The built-in DSP certainly is handy.

That is something we plan on addressing by replacing the fan.  While the iNuke runs extremely cool, no fan is not really a good option.  It can certainly get by with a quieter fan.  We've even contemplated a custom  chassis.

As for "midwoofer" duties, the iNuke seems more than capable.  250Hz is well within its abilities. 

[SoCalWJS]

Pete -

Thanks for the response and your thoughts on Soundstage. Makes sense for the most part. I know of several Speakers that I have come to think of as "Forward, "Neutral", or "Recessed" in nature of their basic soundstage presentation. Never tried to look at that specific frequency range to see if it matches up. I'll have to start looking more closely.

I've always thought very highly of speakers that are all of the following: Full Range, Deep Soundstage, no serious peaks or dips in FR, and the ability to "disappear" with a decent or good recording. There are so few that can do all of these.

If you've achieved all of them at a reasonable cost and put it in a beautiful package - 

Very nice looking speaker!

[Vapor Audio]

I'm Ryan ... the good looking one, not Pete 

[SoCalWJS]

I'm Ryan ... the good looking one, not Pete 

I glanced up and saw Pete's more recent post and..... and.....and.... 

....shoulda quoted your post so I could keep these things straight. Too complicated for me.