[Don_S]

I used up my last flood lamp this morning--real quickly.  Installed it, turned on, and flash--gone. 

I guess it is time to switch to the low-energy versions. I need 65W flood lamps that can be used with a dimmer switch. I will avoid the CFLs because of the mercury content.  I am not sure they would work with a dimmer but that is a moot point. 

Recommendations for type and brands would be appreciated. My house has a total of 7 floods so price is also a concern. I do only plan to replace the current bulbs as they burn out.

Thanks for any information.

[ctviggen]

When you say "floods", what exactly do you mean?  Lights on the outside in cone-shaped housings?

Personally, I'd buy LED.  See if you can get them locally for a discount.  Here in CT, Home Depot (but no where else I've found) has them for a reduced price.  The nice thing is -- assuming the listed years of life are correct -- you won't have to replace them for many years (20?).   Also, the wattage will be around 10 or so. 

[Wayner]

Here we go again....

The "flood" lights are called Par lamps. They can be used indoor or out. I'm assuming that you have a bunch of recessed "cans" in your ceilings inside your house, like in the kitchen, living room, etc. Most cans are designed around either a Par 30 or Par 38. The "30" means the diameter, and to figure that out, you take that number and take it times 1/8" (.125"). So, a Par 30 lamp is 30 X .125" = 3.75" in diameter. A Par 38 would be 1/8 (.125") X 38 = 4.75" in diameter. They do make a Par 36, but that is usually a low voltage lamp.

I've been slowly replacing my incandescent with 10.5 watt Par 30, Long Neck LEDs. I have 3 Toshiba brand in my vinyl room now. Yes, they are dimmable, but the dimming range is short, and then you will loose the light all together as you bring it to about half way down.

So look for a replacement lamp that is designed to fit your fixture housings.

The lamps also come in various Kelvin temperatures. That means the color temperature, like cool, cool white, warm white, etc. If you want to match the general color of a warm incandescent, look for something around 2700 K to get the color of the lamps "off glow" to match.

Wayner

[Photon46]

I wonder how much specific brand recommendations mean. I imagine the companies marketing them use whatever Chinese factory offers the cheapest deal and move to a different manufacturer whenever it's advantageous to the bottom line. I swapped out 6 halogen floods in ceiling cans last year, paid about $160 for the set. One has already burned out and required replacement. Hope that's just an anomaly and not indicative of a problem using them in cans. They generate a surprising amount of heat, don't know if the heat retained by close fitting cans affects longevity.

Also, even though the led lights I bought had the same color temperature as halogen, their spectral balance is a bit different. If you compare the appearance of a light neutral grey under halogen and the led floods there is an obvious difference in appearance.

[S Clark]

My house has 64 recessed can floodlights... if I counted correctly.  I may have missed a couple.  Some of the old GE bulbs were in place when we bought the house 25 years ago.  They still seem to outlast Sylvania.  All of the ones purchase in the last ten years don't seem to be nearly as dependable.  They are on dimmers that help with amperage spikes which can burn out cold bulbs. 

[Don_S]

Thanks for the information.  I should have mentioned they are interior floods.  One is in a recessed can and 6 are in the same track light. Thanks to Wayner I now know they are called Par 30s and I would want 2700K versions.

Photon46, what type/brand do you use?  Interesting since one burned out early and they seem to run hot.  I thought LED bulbs would be cool. Are you using LED?  Heat is definitely a factor in my room with the track lights. It is the hottest room in the house and I can feel the heat build from the track lights in the summer.

I am aware that Home Depot carries them as well as Lowes. But for the prices asked I was hoping to get more brand specific recommendations or warnings.

S Clark--Sylvania was the brand I just installed that lasted a microsecond. 

[Wayner]

I would not recommend Osram/Sylvania to anyone, as their QC is very bad. Their professional LED stuff is very difficult to work with. I've had these Toshiba lamps for about 3 years now, with no trouble. They do have die-cast aluminum heat sinks on the back sides of them.

PS, high output LEDs put out lots of heat, from the drivers mounted in the stem of the lamp, so keep that as thought.

Here is a project I designed for Mount Olympus High School:





Wayner

[jea48]

Thanks for the information.  I should have mentioned they are interior floods.  One is in a recessed can and 6 are in the same track light. Thanks to Wayner I now know they are called Par 30s and I would want 2700K versions.

Photon46, what type/brand do you use?  Interesting since one burned out early and they seem to run hot.  I thought LED bulbs would be cool. Are you using LED?  Heat is definitely a factor in my room with the track lights. It is the hottest room in the house and I can feel the heat build from the track lights in the summer.

I am aware that Home Depot carries them as well as Lowes. But for the prices asked I was hoping to get more brand specific recommendations or warnings.

S Clark--Sylvania was the brand I just installed that lasted a microsecond. 

Don_S,

I just recently picked up a bunch of GE 65 watt BR30 130V flood lamps at the electrical wholesale house for $1.85 each.  ( GE #24705 65BR30/FL/PROLINE 130V)

I built my new house in 2007 and have yet to burn out a single 65BR30 130V lamp. My mains voltage averages 120V to 122V. Yes wattage is slightly less than 65 watts. I also use dimmers. I like incandescent lighting on dimmers better than LED or CFL.

[Photon46]

Don_S, I'd have to get up on a ladder & pull a lamp out to see what brand is in there. It's one I purchased from Home Depot, but I forget who the manufacturer was (it's been a couple years since I put them in.) Yes, they are LED lamps. LED lamps do run very cool compared to Halogen/tungsten, but they still generate some heat. A close fitting can fixture concentrates what heat they do make and if the lights are left on for an extended period of time, things get hot around the base.

[Don_S]

Yea,  I am really tempted stay old-school.  Me and Tom (Edison) forever. I do not understand the heat from the LED bulbs.   I get that what power they draw ends up as either light or heat but they do not draw that many watts so they can only produce a limited amount of heat.

I suspect LEDs still put out less heat (BTUs) than a standard incandescent bulb. Maybe the heat on the LEDs is concentrated in the base and incandescent bulbs radiate it from the front. The perception difference between intensity (temperature) and quantity (BTUs).

I need to pick up one or two LEDs and try them.

Don_S,

I just recently picked up a bunch of GE 65 watt BR30 130V flood lamps at the electrical wholesale house for $1.85 each.  ( GE #24705 65BR30/FL/PROLINE 130V)

I built my new house in 2007 and have yet to burn out a single 65BR30 130V lamp. My mains voltage averages 120V to 122V. Yes wattage is slightly less than 65 watts. I also use dimmers. I like incandescent lighting on dimmers better than LED or CFL.

[JLM]

You get what you pay for.  Cheap LED's have much shorter lives due to poorer heat sink designs on individual the LEDs and poor quality.

Another option is construction grade (or 130 volt) incandescent bulbs.  They're rated to last 2 - 3 times longer than 120 volt incandescents but have somewhat reduced output.  We installed 13 of them over 8 years (very intermittent use) and haven't had one burn out yet.  We've replaced some with CFLs (compact fluorescents) and some with LED as technology/prices/usage has dictated.  We bought ours at Home Depot, don't know where you'd find them now (try electrical supply shops).

[NIGHTFALL1970]

Don_S,
I recently replaced every bulb in my house with LED and highly recommend them.  The best (in my opinion) are Cree (home depot) and Philips.  For a Par30 I think you should go with Philips.  They feel heavy and well made.  I can touch any of my bulbs after hours of use and feel no heat.

-Nightfall1970


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-65W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700K-BR30-Dimmable-LED-Flood-Light-Bulb-E-423798/203408017

[Quiet Earth]

Screw these new light bulbs, I don't want 'em. (Screw the light bulb.....get it? That was a joke. Sorry about that....  ).

But seriously, I don't like the way fluorescent lighting looks in my house. LED lighting is even worse. And why do we have to make light bulbs more complicated than they used to be? I'm not buying any of them until I run out of my regular stash of incandescents. I have some new old stock incandescents and some "incandescent replacement" bulbs,,, whatever that means. G.E. Halogen Technology. Looks like a light bulb to me. 

I just want a regular light bulb so I can see when it gets dark. Is that too much to ask? I like the old ones better.

[jea48]

Yea,  I am really tempted stay old-school.  Me and Tom (Edison) forever. I do not understand the heat from the LED bulbs.   I get that what power they draw ends up as either light or heat but they do not draw that many watts so they can only produce a limited amount of heat.

I suspect LEDs still put out less heat (BTUs) than a standard incandescent bulb. Maybe the heat on the LEDs is concentrated in the base and incandescent bulbs radiate it from the front. The perception difference between intensity (temperature) and quantity (BTUs).

I need to pick up one or two LEDs and try them.

Don_S,

Like I said in my post you can buy indoor 130V BR30 65watt flood lamps still cheap at the present time.

Not sure why Wayner  recommends PAR lamps for indoor use. The price is considerably higher than indoor BR lamps.

 I built my new house in 2007. I have  20 + recessed can lights installed outside around the house  in the underside of the soffits. LOL, at the time I didn't want to spend the extra money for PAR flood lamps so I just stuck in the indoor 130V 65watt BR30 flood lamps. Seven years and only one has burned out.   

By the way you can buy indoor BR lamps in a spot or flood light pattern.
Examples incandescent of BR lamps.
http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/IncanFlood

Examples of  BR and PAR lamps.
http://www.thefind.com/homefurnishings/info-130v-flood
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As for the heat an LED light generates, it's not so much the LED as it is the electronic step down transformer built into the unit that causes most of the heat. Same for CFL lamps.

I hate CFL lamps because it takes about 2 minutes, inside heated areas, to reach its full brightness.  They are worthless, imo, in a non heated garage.

[Don_S]

jea48,

Thanks for the info.  I just checked the empty box for the bulbs I am using.  BR30s.  I never bought them by number designation so I was not paying attention.  I just knew what I wanted when I went to the store. Yea--those look right---give me a 6-pack. I will stick with the BR30s. I do not see any reason to change to PAR30s.  Still debating the incandescent vs LED issue but I am sorely tempted to buy another 6-pack of incandescent bulbs and let the LED market "mature".

[Wayner]

If you will recall my first post, I said that (in the case of recessed cans) that you have to buy the lamp that actually fits the recessed can. A Par 30 long neck is about 4.6" from screw base contact to glass face. A BR 30 is 5.38" long from screw base to glass face. A BR lamp would stick out of my recessed cans by about 3/4 of an inch and look absolutely stupid.

If you are going to mount in a track light, then it probably doesn't matter. You can also get stung with Par lamps because they are not all the same length, either. Some vary even by manufacturer.

I purchased my LEDs on sale at Menards for $11 each. That price is not far from the cost of an incandescent. The operating cost of the LED will be way less. While I myself like the looks of incandescent lamps and their ability to dim really low, the times are changing. In some rooms, I don't really need to have dimmers, tho most of the rooms here do have them. The kitchen is one of those rooms. My house is 21 years old and I have 6 Par lamps in the kitchen, one I think I have changed since I built the house. When They go out, I will replace them with LEDs.

In my theater room, I have some very nifty wall sconces that I run plain old 40 watt incandescent in and I usually have them dimmed way down at night, so that I get a "fire glow" appearance from them. You can't do that with LED lamps, you will simply loose the light.

In my opinion, the correct approach to modern lighting is a blend of appropriate lighting sources that match the task of what you would like to light. Some lighting is for "twinkle" effect, other types of lighting is for task, while other requirements like cleaning require general, broad lighting.

CFLs do have a use, like in table lamps. CFLs are meant to be left on for longer periods of time, so they are not meant for a place like the bathroom, where the lights may be turned on and off many times per day. This is hard on the CFLs built in starter and shortens the lamp life. They also do not belong screwed in upside down (base up) in a ceiling fixture, as the lamp will eventually cook the ballast and cause premature lamp failure.

Wayner

[JLM]

This isn't going to turn into a solid state (LED) versus tube (CFL/incandescent) debate is it?   

All bulbs are available in a warm to cool color range.  In some places (like bathrooms for us old geezers who make late night visits) having a slower warm up is nice.  And like any fluorescent, CFL's don't work in the cold and don't like being turned on/off excessively.  Lifespan varies by brand, CFL are getting better to compete with LEDs.  All new incandescents are being filled with halogen to use less electricity.  Otherwise just pick for lifespan (hard to reach installations, hours of use, first cost, cost of electricity).

[jea48]

If you will recall my first post, I said that (in the case of recessed cans) that you have to buy the lamp that actually fits the recessed can. A Par 30 long neck is about 4.6" from screw base contact to glass face. A BR 30 is 5.38" long from screw base to glass face. A BR lamp would stick out of my recessed cans by about 3/4 of an inch and look absolutely stupid.
Wayner

Hi Wayner,

The GE 65BR30 lamps measure just a hair over 5".

I have 45 recessed  HALO 6" Diameter cans installed in the ceilings of my house. I spent the extra money and bought the sealed air tight units. For the recessed trim I bought the HALO 6" 30WAT with the white ring and white baffle / reflector. The trims are also air tight.
The lamp socket snaps into the trim. With the 65BR30 lamp installed the lamp is recessed about an inch looking from the floor to the ceiling.  (Too lazy to drag out a later for a more accurate measurement.)

As you know the standard HALO (6") can comes with an adjustable lamp socket holder plate for lamp height adjustment. And as you are aware the baffle trim with an open back is used. Personally I prefer the clean look of the HALO 30WAT trim. They are pricey though. Even at wholesale….
Jim

[Quiet Earth]

I imagine that some day the Halogen filled incandescents will also be banned, and then all we will have is LED or fluorescents to choose from.

[wgscott]

If you want to have some fun, try the Philips Hue lights.  I have six in my living room.  You can write your own HTML control pages or shell scripts so you don't have to be limited to what their dumb iOS control app offers.  You can set the color, or the color temperature (whiteness) and how bright they are, etc, as well as on and off.  Here is a nice review:  http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/in-living-color-ars-reviews-the-hacker-approved-philips-hue-leds/