[Vinnie R.]

Good idea - I'll start a thread on the RWA forum  for those who have technical questions about what
is under the hood, mod potential, etc.

And here it is: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=124280.0

I hope to see some of you there.

Vinnie

[OzarkTom]

My buddy Rex just called. He received his new issue of the Absolute Sound today. Rex hasn't read all 10 pages of the Sony review, but Steven Stone sums up that the Sony is a Best Buy.

And that is what Vinnie reports on his thread.

Maybe this is TAS review. Title is a game changer.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/sony-hap-z1es-hdd-audio-player/?page=3

[stargazerang]

Hi stargaze,

Voltage is not switchable in its stock form.
2-prong IEC.

Hi brj,

Good idea - I'll start a thread on the RWA forum
for those who have technical questions about what
is under the hood, mod potential, etc.

Thanks,

Vinnie

Hi Vinnie

Thanks for the reply

Is it possible to change the voltage by replacing the transformer. Any pictures you took on the power supply?

Thanks

[steve in jersey]

Very interesting thread . Depending on which thread or which forum you view discussions on this player, the
focus of talk goes in different directions.

Over on Audio Asylum (& there is another thread over here) there has been more talk about how the player
might be able to be modified then what the current capabilities of the stock player might be. I'm unfortunately
no longer in that "tax bracket" that I able to consider buying a $4k or better(after mods) player.

The only experience many people may have is with later generation Sony players where the solid tech of the 1st generation ES players was long abandoned for "more ergonomic friendly" consumer electronics yversions. I can remember being (somewhat surprised &) impressed which how good SCD-1 sounded when I first heard it.
 not the equal of many of today's hi-end players , on a "rainy day" it could sound close enough to be an
insignificant amount of differences. Sony's ES offerings are technologically & philosophically of the same Company.

It seems a lot of people are  very wary of what the DSD Remastering engine might be doing to their PCM
files. I have to mention a comment I find to be pretty funny.  One person was worried about the PCM files
being artificially processed. The truth of the matter is "any" processing you do in the digital domain is
already "artificial". Is it going to be processed the same way PCM files are usually handled ,of course not.
It's no longer a PCM file. If you absolutely prefer the "characteristic sound" of PCM, (more pronounced leading
edge transients) you may not like the more analog transient response of a DSD file. For certain genres of music the more pronounced leading edge is not the correct response. As I've said no particular processing
is any more artificial than another. It's just a different way to get things back to analog with (hopefully) more
of the sound character we're looking for. All these points are moot of course as DSD Remastering is user
selectable. I have a feeling I may prefer a large portion of my Orchestral music Remastered. Large scale
dynamic acoustic music benefits greatly from a bit more "dryness" than some producers deemed necessary
to defeat some of the "air" that mask some of the stage positioning of instrument locations.

Yeah , this player sounds very interesting to me. A question for some users. How much bigger does the DSD
Remastering make the PCM files . In other words , if I chose to DSD Rm 1 of my ,typical dBPa rips that is about 730Mb in size , will it be 2gb or 3gb iin size, larger ?

Thanks, for all the discussion so far (a special thanks to Stercom who has really peaked my interest. I too was
a huge vinyl fan, but it's been years since I packed up my VPI table & the vinyl is all gone. I think my Metrum Hex DAC is terrific but if I can get a good price for it I will try to swing for the HAP)

[fiveoclockfriday]

A question for some users. How much bigger does the DSD
Remastering make the PCM files . In other words , if I chose to DSD Rm 1 of my ,typical dBPa rips that is about 730Mb in size , will it be 2gb or 3gb iin size, larger ?

I do not have one of these players, but it's my understanding that the DSD remastering is done on the fly as you play a file. I don't think it actually saves a new version of the original file anywhere.

[smargo]

It seems a lot of people are  very wary of what the DSD Remastering engine might be doing to their PCM
files. I have to mention a comment I find to be pretty funny.  One person was worried about the PCM files
being artificially processed. The truth of the matter is "any" processing you do in the digital domain is
already "artificial". Is it going to be processed the same way PCM files are usually handled ,of course not.
It's no longer a PCM file. If you absolutely prefer the "characteristic sound" of PCM, (more pronounced leading
edge transients) you may not like the more analog transient response of a DSD file. For certain genres of music the more pronounced leading edge is not the correct response. As I've said no particular processing
is any more artificial than another. It's just a different way to get things back to analog with (hopefully) more
of the sound character we're looking for. All these points are moot of course as DSD Remastering is user
selectable. I have a feeling I may prefer a large portion of my Orchestral music Remastered. Large scale
dynamic acoustic music benefits greatly from a bit more "dryness" than some producers deemed necessary
to defeat some of the "air" that mask some of the stage positioning of instrument locations.

so remember when you download a file its already in its native format - from hd tracks - native downloads - hirez downloads - a cd, etc  to your computer or external hard drive

all the dsd remastering does is upsample the music file to dsd - but you have the option of leaving the remastering on or not - (It doesnt change the original quantity of the file)

files downloaded to the sony that are in dsd - obviously do not need the upsampling turned on

you have to experiment (if you want to) if a music file benefits from the upsampling or not - its totally and 100% up to you

its not the last component you will ever get - you know in the future there will come along something that you have to buy - we should all know this by now

so just take this component on its own terms - and you will enjoy it immensely

[Stercom]

Thanks, for all the discussion so far (a special thanks to Stercom who has really peaked my interest. I too was
a huge vinyl fan, but it's been years since I packed up my VPI table & the vinyl is all gone. I think my Metrum Hex DAC is terrific but if I can get a good price for it I will try to swing for the HAP)

steve in jersey -  I owned a Metrum Octave DAC MK1. The Octave MK2 and the Hex are quite a step above what I owned. Just say'in please listen to the HAP-Z1ES in your system before selling the Hex!!

[steve in jersey]

You're right (as I also had an Octave for a while)'

I'll sit on making any moves for a while . It does sound nice being able to listen to DSD files (even if they were generated from PCM)  Oh well.

Thanks for the concern. (The Hex is sounding exceptionally nice tonight playing back some of my Anthology of the RCO Live ,Vol. 6 recordings.)

[Afterimage]

It says it can hold 1 TB in the internal drive.  If my math is right, that is approx. 19,000 uncompressed songs (5 min long).   Or in album terms 1900.  Do I have that right?   Since I only have about 500 disc, no way I would need to attach an external hard drive, the Sony can handle it alone.   

[Stercom]

It says it can hold 1 TB in the internal drive.  If my math is right, that is approx. 19,000 uncompressed songs (5 min long).   Or in album terms 1900.  Do I have that right?   Since I only have about 500 disc, no way I would need to attach an external hard drive, the Sony can handle it alone.   

Here is a handy chart about uncompressed music files sizes. The type of file matters but I'd say you are fine with the 1TB drive.

File Type            MB of Storage per Minute of Music (stereo)    
16-bit/44.1kHz       10MB   
16-bit/48kHz          11MB   
24-bit/48kHz        16.5MB   
24-bit/96kHz          33MB   
24-bit/192kHz        66MB   
DXD                     127MB   
DSD64                   42MB   
DSD128                 84MB   



   

[steve in jersey]

Stercom,

I know this is off topic , but if you don't already have these box sets they contain some absolutely fabulous sounding recordings in them . They are must haves for the classical music lover

The Decca Sound Box Set
The Mecury Living Presence Box Set
The RCA Living Stereo Box Set

Rip all the discs to PC  in WAV using dBPa & you have hours of Orchestral music recorded with tubed microphones & very different & more intimate hall perspective then you are likely to hear in most modern recordings. The mastering of all the sets is first rate ! (Ok, I'll tie this into the thread)

These sets should shine when played back on the HAP - Z1ES. The thing that floors me is these recording stand on their own as very good sounding , not as historical documents. Given their age I can't help but shake my head at many of the recordings !

There are discs in these sets that vinyl collectors pay hundreds of $$$ for. They sound pretty close to what they sounded like spinning on my VPI. ( I said close !?!)

[Stercom]

Stercom,

I know this is off topic , but if you don't already have these box sets they contain some absolutely fabulous sounding recordings in them . They are must haves for the classical music lover

The Decca Sound Box Set
The Mecury Living Presence Box Set
The RCA Living Stereo Box Set

Rip all the discs to PC  in WAV using dBPa & you have hours of Orchestral music recorded with tubed microphones & very different & more intimate hall perspective then you are likely to hear in most modern recordings. The mastering of all the sets is first rate ! (Ok, I'll tie this into the thread)

These sets should shine when played back on the HAP - Z1ES. The thing that floors me is these recording stand on their own as very good sounding , not as historical documents. Given their age I can't help but shake my head at many of the recordings !

There are discs in these sets that vinyl collectors pay hundreds of $$$ for. They sound pretty close to what they sounded like spinning on my VPI. ( I said close !?!)

Ha, Ha. Oh yeah. Teb B was gracious enough to rip my SACDs for me and the Living Stereo sound especially good on the HAP-Z1ES. The 200G vinyl Living Stereo reissues are well......really, really good. 

[bob53]

Has anyone else taken note with the striking similarities of the upcoming PS Audio Directstream DAC and the Sony HAP-Z1ES? Both use a FPGA as a DSD DAC, both convert all music to DSD via this FPGA, and both upsample (granted the PS audio upsamples to 10X vs the Sony 2X but it is debatable if this is better). I used to own a bridge-enabled PWD MkII and liked the sonics/hated the bridge. Since the bridge is still effectively a beta product and will not be updated with their upcoming product, it would seem that Sony's HAP-Z1ES may end up being a better product for those of us who want to enjoy the music and not tinker.  Further, as Sony's engineers created SACD, I would expect they would be in the ideal position to write software for the FPGA.

For those who must have a network streamer (not sure why you need this), I understand that the Sony is not an option. OTOH, the Sony takes a much simpler approach and uses a HD instead of network/wifi as a data source, and this probably has many design advantages (less complexity, less jitter?). I suspect once the HD is swapped out for a SSD, the Sony will get even better with respect to reliability and probably sonics.

While I too share some trepidation of Sony in light of their tepid and sometimes fickle support and utilization of their technologies, the HAP sounds like it could be a product that may keep up with products costing many times more (time will tell). Sony has the advantage of being a much bigger company than the little guys (PS audio for example) and can leverage it's economy of scale to produce a comparable product for much less $$$ - the PS audio product costs 3x as much because they are going to sell many times less and need to turn a profit. As the HAP Z1 is otherwise self contained, sony support is less of a concern for me. The only two concerns I have are that the firmware fails to be updated with changes to internet music databases for song identification (e.g. Gracenote) and fails to update their smartphone/tablet remote apps to keep step with operating system upgrades. Not sure this is enough of a potential problem to avoid purchasing one... 

Curious what other peoples thoughts are on these topics?  What have others compared the HAP to sonically as a source? I'm very curious how similar the HAP sounds to the upcoming PS Audio product.

Bob

[smargo]

While I too share some trepidation of Sony in light of their tepid and sometimes fickle support and utilization of their technologies, the HAP sounds like it could be a product that may keep up with products costing many times more (time will tell). Sony has the advantage of being a much bigger company than the little guys (PS audio for example) and can leverage it's economy of scale to produce a comparable product for much less $$$ - the PS audio product costs 3x as much because they are going to sell many times less and need to turn a profit. As the HAP Z1 is otherwise self contained, sony support is less of a concern for me. The only two concerns I have are that the firmware fails to be updated with changes to internet music databases for song identification (e.g. Gracenote) and fails to update their smartphone/tablet remote apps to keep step with operating system upgrades. Not sure this is enough of a potential problem to avoid purchasing one... 

Curious what other peoples thoughts are on these topics?  What have others compared the HAP to sonically as a source? I'm very curious how similar the HAP sounds to the upcoming PS Audio product.

Bob

your trepidation with sony in general is valid - as i have owned a few players from them over the years - mainly sacd players - and was not that impressed sonically or in their technical support. I just dont feel the same this time with them. maybe because they have made something very friendly that answers my needs to enter into the digital download realm and because its gotten a lot of positive press and the fact that it sounds good - no matter what i throw at it. (again upsampling and dsee can be turned on or off at your discretion)

as far as the updating of firmware - although what you say is valid - i for one dont care at the moment - because everything works so seamlessly in the sony - there are no glitches that they even have to offer firmware at the moment . i might change my tune in the coming months - but for now all is well.

the unit sounds very good - its prob not the best digital device out there - but it sounds very good to me (very satisfying) and i have owned dacs and cd players over the years - from cambridge - arcam - bryston -wadia - ava - ps audio - audio alchemy (remember them) - oppo - shanling - marantz -ah tjoeb - sony - cyrus and i forget what else - (mainly pieces that range from $700 to $2500)

i guess with any component until you take the plunge and hear it in your system for at least 2 weeks - your just speculating

im not saying its the greatest sound i have ever heard from digital - but it more than satisfies (musically and less fuss) and is certainly the equal of many dacs and cd players that are in its price range.

[steve in jersey]

It has been my experience (& that's worth about the cost of half a cup of coffee) (day old coffee) Companies
take into consideration what the specific control functions in place do & will assign new functions access on existing controls that can be accessed with additional physical gestures on certain "buttons". It's written into
the firmware update. If this is insufficient, they will release new versions of the Apps (& of course explain to
you in the "prelude" of the firmware if a newer version of the App wil be needed before the firmware update
will start) (always read all the "stuff" before starting any firmware updates, anywhere !)

There are numerous ways to make sure your music is correctly "Tagged" before you load it into a player.
I don't download individual "songs" so I don't know what is available for ID purposes from these sites. What
free music tagging services are available online or how well they work I'm not really sure. dBPA has an
excellent (not free) program called "Perfect Tunes" that will access several different music ID databases
 & then show the results so you can choose the ID that best matches what the music may be. I look at tagging
features inside of a player as a perk for something that could/should have been done before being loaded into
a "player". Who knows though , the Gracenote database function could be exceptional, but as I've mentioned
there's really no reason you should have to depend on it

As you said , minor concerns ! (so why does it take so long to compose a reply) (I have to learn how to type 1
of these days, & then get a real keyboard for this iPad). My brain could'nt actually be slower than my hand
could it ?

[flinn]

Hello to all from a new member. I came across this forum while trying to solve a problem. I set up my player last evening and connected to my home wireless network, which uses an Airport Extreme. I began transferring about 7000 tracks with a wired connection to a macbook. Everything is transferring fine and the I played the DSD tracks included with the player,and a few that transferred.  I am very pleased with the sound right out of the box. The information which accompanied the product leaves a lot to be desired, as does the online information.  To me, it's sparse and somewhat confusing.    My problem is with the remote app. I am unable to connect with my iPad air or my iPhone.  I have tried deleting and re-downloading the app, and restarting the iPad, but no connection. I shows my player on the App with an IP address underneath which  looks correct, but will not connect. I also  turned off both "Standby" options in the Settings, because Sony's online Troubleshooting guide seems to say this can prevent a connection.   I am wondering if the fact I am transferring files by a wired connection is the problem. I would appreciate any suggestions from anyone with respect to what could be tried. It seems you really need the app to do any kind of organizing or deleting of the files.  I emailed sony support and will see if they have any suggestions. Thanks. 

[steve in jersey]

Is the Sony connected to your home network . The iPad app "sees" the player on your network . In  other words the connection between your iPad & the Sony is'nt like that of a normal remote control through an IR
on a unit. The connection is made through your local intranet.

The iPad APP scans your network for an address that Sony player will give it. An easy way to think of it is the
Sony has to stay connected to your network at all times. So here is a "flow chart"'

 iPad > Network > Z1. (Or is your problem something else ? I did'nt see any mention of your network so I made a guess)

I'm not quite sure what the troubleshoot guide is talking about. Was this just a general guide or was it referenced specifically to the controller app setup ? Your network has to "see" your Z1 , I'm pretty sure if the Z1 is'nt on (or at least in standby mode)your network(which is your router)is not able to see the Z1. You can't
setup up something that's not there. You are not going to hurt anything if leave the player on to try to setup the app. PC off >Z1 on & connected to router, try it now. I'm assuming the player setup is done !

[Stercom]

It shows my player on the App with an IP address underneath which  looks correct, but will not connect. I also  turned off both "Standby" options in the Settings, because Sony's online Troubleshooting guide seems to say this can prevent a connection.   I am wondering if the fact I am transferring files by a wired connection is the problem. I would appreciate any suggestions from anyone with respect to what could be tried.

I bet you are right about the wired connection being the problem. I transferred all my files via wired LAN cable directly from the router and after the transfer was completed started using my iPad to control the unit. I'm guessing it won't allow you to access the files while the transfer process is occurring since it needs to organize the drive and then access GraceNotes before it is finished. Since its showing your player in the App I doubt its your network. I would suggest letting the transfer process finish, disconnect the LAN cable, reboot the HAP-Z1ES and then try using the iPad/IPhone App again.

[Stercom]

I've owned the HAP-Z1ES for a couple of months now. The thing I like the most is not only the sound quality, but the ease of use and stability of the unit! It boots up almost instantaneously. I'm guessing the operating system resides on a SSD. People on other boards have indicated they swapped out the internal hard drive and the HAP-Z1ES copied over the operating system and even the hi-rez music samples that came with the unit. That indicates there is another source of internal storage - which is probably the SSD I'm referring to.  Also, the iPad app runs over the network so I can literally be in another part of the house - turn the HAP-Z1ES on, select a song and have it playing by the time I sit down to listen. No big deal, but just shows how fast it boots up and how easy it is to use. I owned an Olive 4HD (which is basically the same thing as the HAP-Z1ES) but it took longer to boot, longer to find songs and just didn't seem as stable. The Olive would "crash" every so often and I would have to reboot. The Sony has never done that. (Disclaimer: I haven't used any of Olive's current music servers so they may be better).  For songs I have multiple copies of, but are in different formats, I can jump easily between the DSD and FLAC versions, for example, of a song to compare sound quality. The hi-rez rips are obviously the best sounding but its fun to compare. Finally, I should mention the internet radio function. Like everything else, it worked the first time I tried it, it found a slew of stations, organized them by type of music and sounded excellent. I know all this functionality is available with other products but the HAP-Z1ES puts it all together "under one roof"...........and it actually works, is easy to use and sounds good!

[Flashman]

I've owned the HAP-Z1ES for a couple of months now. The thing I like the most is not only the sound quality, but the ease of use and stability of the unit! It boots up almost instantaneously. I'm guessing the operating system resides on a SSD. People on other boards have indicated they swapped out the internal hard drive and the HAP-Z1ES copied over the operating system and even the hi-rez music samples that came with the unit. That indicates there is another source of internal storage - which is probably the SSD I'm referring to.  Also, the iPad app runs over the network so I can literally be in another part of the house - turn the HAP-Z1ES on, select a song and have it playing by the time I sit down to listen. No big deal, but just shows how fast it boots up and how easy it is to use. I owned an Olive 4HD (which is basically the same thing as the HAP-Z1ES) but it took longer to boot, longer to find songs and just didn't seem as stable. The Olive would "crash" every so often and I would have to reboot. The Sony has never done that. (Disclaimer: I haven't used any of Olive's current music servers so they may be better).  For songs I have multiple copies of, but are in different formats, I can jump easily between the DSD and FLAC versions, for example, of a song to compare sound quality. The hi-rez rips are obviously the best sounding but its fun to compare. Finally, I should mention the internet radio function. Like everything else, it worked the first time I tried it, it found a slew of stations, organized them by type of music and sounded excellent. I know all this functionality is available with other products but the HAP-Z1ES puts it all together "under one roof"...........and it actually works, is easy to use and sounds good!

Stercom, I'll bet there are many people in the same boat as you.  I myself have been down the path of separates, was an early adopter of Olive (Vinnie Rossi of Red Wine Audio -- one great guy -- modified my Olive Musica, putting in a larger hard drive and enabling it for battery operation), have gone the tube route, the vinyl route, tried esoteric cabling, etc.  Don't get me wrong; I've had lots of fun along the way, half of which is doing the research (I love reading Six Moons and believe Srajan Ebaen is the poet laureate of audio reviewing) and coming upon interesting people, novel products, etc.  But I am at a stage in my life where I want simplicity, ease of use (especially for my wife), and great sound.  I don't want to muck around with computer audio, with software add-ons, expensive cabling, endless discussions of whether this or that computer can be a music server, etc.  And I don't want multiple boxes in my living room, where my wife and I and our guests will listen to two-channel stereo.  From what I have read from you, Smargo and others, this might be close to the Holy Grail.  It has its own ecosystem, which may not be for everyone (Steve Jobs proved that some folks really do want a controlled, predictable experience), pristine sound from what I can gather, streaming Internet radio that actually sounds good and built-in storage that will suffice for what I need.  And quite frankly, while it might not qualify as a bargain in some people's books, it's a steal considering lots of ultra-high end music servers that I have been looking at.  I am a U.S. expat who has been living in France since 2011 and I will probably come home next year, at which point I will pull the trigger.  Heck, I might even go for the matching integrated amp from Sony, which one reviewer actually said was the hidden gem of these two units, though trying to compare a music server and an integrated amp is kinda silly.  I will continue to track this thread for information but I am 99 percent convinced this is the way to go for me and my wife, whose Luddite status won't be challenged by the Sony.     Thanks for your postings, and that of others!