[thunderbrick]

I'm guessing the latter.  In the same room ML Quests were fatiguing,  Maggie 1.6s sounded bass-shy but amazing, and the 20.1s are my last-ever speaker. 

Right.   

[audiotunesx]

I would like to move up from my 3.6Rs to at least the 3.7s, but have heard so much about how even the 20.1s are in a different league, so why not go to the 20.7s?  Question is--would the large jump in resolution be offset by not having enough room size?  There would be 2 feet from side walls to center of panels, 4 feet out from back wall, listening 10-11 feet  away, no obstructions, with 2-3 feet behind me.  The larger panels, only 5 inches wider, would sit in the same place as the 3.6Rs now sit. Ceiling is 8 feet and flat.  Power is ARC REF 250s, pair of REL Stratas behind.  There's plenty of sound in the room now, but I am tempted by what I am reading about the 20s being much more than a little better.     

I have 1.7's in a 12 x 18ft room with a ML Grotto i.  The room sounds full with just that.  I think the room may handle 3.7's, but I doubt I would get imaging and sound-stage under control with speakers as large as the 20.7's.  Nonetheless, you may be able to control the bass with 4 corner bass traps. 

[Brian Walsh]

In a room that's 11'x17', no way 20.7s would work, for the above mentioned reasons as well as some lack of integration at what would be short listening distance.

Elizabeth, I agree with the remarks about your room being too narrow for 20.7s. The length is good.

[mr_bill]

I would like to move up from my 3.6Rs to at least the 3.7s, but have heard so much about how even the 20.1s are in a different league, so why not go to the 20.7s?  Question is--would the large jump in resolution be offset by not having enough room size?  There would be 2 feet from side walls to center of panels, 4 feet out from back wall, listening 10-11 feet  away, no obstructions, with 2-3 feet behind me.  The larger panels, only 5 inches wider, would sit in the same place as the 3.6Rs now sit. Ceiling is 8 feet and flat.  Power is ARC REF 250s, pair of REL Stratas behind.  There's plenty of sound in the room now, but I am tempted by what I am reading about the 20s being much more than a little better.     

PM Sent

[SteveFord]

Here's something Wendell sent me, I assume it's from Audio Review:

For those folks looking for a User review.
Have had the new speakers for about 3 weeks. Sold Wilson WP7.
Amps: Krell 350Mcx mono's
Pre: Audio Research Ref 5
Music server: Windows 7, JRiver through PS Audio DAC
Room: 11x18x9 Bass traps are custom corner types but I decided to lay them down on floor behind speakers. side walls are all treated with custom high frequency panels. Walls are double thick sheet rock with cotton style insulation.
Placement: 2 feet from back wall, 11 inches from side walls. Tweeters on the inside. Speakers rotated toward listener. Speakers titled forward 1/4 inch at base.
Listening chair is 11.5 feet back from speaker.

So how does a big speaker like this sound in a small room. Simply amazing. If anyone thinks the 20.7 will not have bass then they have not heard them. I had the WP’s complemented by a Velodyne 18 sub equalized by an SMS-1 controller. While the MG bass does not go HT low, its is fast, tight and impactful. I miss nothing, and in fact have gained a more pure, faster impact. Sound stage is huge. The WP’s were pretty good here but when I close my eyes, these big speakers are not point sources like the WP’s were with left/right imaging. That may be due to room size. In fact the WP’s may be much more sensitive to a small room. The WP’s also had a very small sweet spot (but a very good one), the opposite is true of the MG’s. Highs are simply fantastic. The WP’s were tiring at times for long listens although very accurate. MG make you want more… I could go on and on. I have not heard many speakers, B&W 800D, 802D, Thiel, Burmeister, Sonus Faber. Each had a special sound, and each were good, but planars have bowled me over. Very happy and cannot see getting anything else.

hughp3
-------------------------------------------------------
The part in bold and italics is what jumped out at me.
 

[MGbert]

Here's something Wendell sent me, I assume it's from Audio Review:

For those folks looking for a User review.
Have had the new speakers for about 3 weeks. Sold Wilson WP7.
Amps: Krell 350Mcx mono's
Pre: Audio Research Ref 5
Music server: Windows 7, JRiver through PS Audio DAC
Room: 11x18x9 Bass traps are custom corner types but I decided to lay them down on floor behind speakers. side walls are all treated with custom high frequency panels. Walls are double thick sheet rock with cotton style insulation.
Placement: 2 feet from back wall, 11 inches from side walls. Tweeters on the inside. Speakers rotated toward listener. Speakers titled forward 1/4 inch at base.
Listening chair is 11.5 feet back from speaker.

So how does a big speaker like this sound in a small room. Simply amazing. If anyone thinks the 20.7 will not have bass then they have not heard them. I had the WP’s complemented by a Velodyne 18 sub equalized by an SMS-1 controller. While the MG bass does not go HT low, its is fast, tight and impactful. I miss nothing, and in fact have gained a more pure, faster impact. Sound stage is huge. The WP’s were pretty good here but when I close my eyes, these big speakers are not point sources like the WP’s were with left/right imaging. That may be due to room size. In fact the WP’s may be much more sensitive to a small room. The WP’s also had a very small sweet spot (but a very good one), the opposite is true of the MG’s. Highs are simply fantastic. The WP’s were tiring at times for long listens although very accurate. MG make you want more… I could go on and on. I have not heard many speakers, B&W 800D, 802D, Thiel, Burmeister, Sonus Faber. Each had a special sound, and each were good, but planars have bowled me over. Very happy and cannot see getting anything else.

hughp3
-------------------------------------------------------
The part in bold and italics is what jumped out at me.

Actually from that Asylum place.

http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=mug&n=208240&highlight=20+1+hughp3&r=&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fsearchtext%3D20.1%26b%3DAND%26topic%3D%26topics_only%3DN%26author%3Dhughp3%26date1%3D%26date2%3D%26slowmessage%3D%26sort%3Dscore%26sortOrder%3DDESC%26forum%3Dmug

MGbert

[SteveFord]

Ach, those nutty inmates...

[satie]

The main things you want the 20.7 for are slightly better top end, waaay better midrange dynamics, better mid clarity, much fuller bass and a whole other league of bass dynamics.

To compare to a very familliar box speaker, the Vandersteen 2 models have only a little less extension than the MG20.x and can provide as good dynamics through the bass. I had no problem fitting the Vandersteens into a small room by using their presence and treble controls, so I doubt you would have a problem using them in a 11X17 room, just make sure they are well away from the front wall - and I mean most of the way into the middle of the room, and give them more than 1' of distance to the sidewalls with the tweeters inwards. When setup this way you can control the bass quantity by moving the speakers further away from the sidewalls to reduce bass, or closer in to increase. Most planar guys in medium or small rooms get a feeling of being overwhelmed by bass from the MG20.x because they position them too close to the front wall and don't have any bass reflection management (bass traps) and are not used to the balance of box speakers.

That said, you need to bass trap the room extensively to prevent it "talking back" as Berni said.

Additionally, you are at the limit of the speaker's practical fit into the room.

You may also want to try a Rooze type setup. Look it up on the planar asylum.

[SteveFord]

One small correction, the top end is the same according to Mr. Diller.
What would be nice is a way to turn off a section of the bass panel on the big ones but then you're still left with the height issue in a smaller room. 

[satie]

One small correction, the top end is the same according to Mr. Diller.
What would be nice is a way to turn off a section of the bass panel on the big ones but then you're still left with the height issue in a smaller room.

Rather simple issue - I sit on a recliner that is raised on concrete blocks. There are obviously more aesthetically pleasing solutions, but that works.

[cityjim]

I wouldn't buy any larger than the MMG's for that small of a room.

cityjim

[Robin Hood]

I would like to move up from my 3.6Rs to at least the 3.7s, but have heard so much about how even the 20.1s are in a different league, so why not go to the 20.7s?  Question is--would the large jump in resolution be offset by not having enough room size? 

The main things you want the 20.7 for are slightly better top end, waaay better midrange dynamics, better mid clarity, much fuller bass and a whole other league of bass dynamics.

For me the 20.7 sound more than offsets room size.  I would rather take a great speaker in a less than ideal room, than a lesser speaker more suited to the room. The 20.7s sound magical to me and if you can afford them, they are unmatched. Another person may disagree and that's their prerogative, but to me the 20.7 perform to a much higher level than the 3.7i, albeit at 2.5 times the cost.

[rw@cn]

For me the 20.7 sound more than offsets room size.  I would rather take a great speaker in a less than ideal room, than a lesser speaker more suited to the room. The 20.7s sound magical to me and if you can afford them, they are unmatched. Another person may disagree and that's their prerogative, but to me the 20.7 perform to a much higher level than the 3.7i, albeit at 2.5 times the cost.

If you have the money, get the 20.7 and do judicious room treatments. Their physical size will be overwhelming in that room, but there are no other Magnepan speakers that are as good.

[cityjim]

 I hear what all you guys are saying and how great the 20 series is. There's no dispute there. But we hear the room while the speakers are playing. All I know is my 20.1R's would benefit from a much larger room. The best maggies I've ever heard were some SMG A's, probably several decades old now driven off a Denon receiver in a large room. It was the entry way to a high end shop's lobby. You could close your eyes and swear Sting was right there singing away. That system had a bottom of the line $250 Denon CD player for a source. The entire system was used sitting next to the cash register.

 Back on topic, 11x17 is nearly a walk-in closet. A set of 20 series in there is not optimum at all. I know we all think bigger is better and such. More horsepower, super duty this and that crap. All marketing gimmicks.

 Just because you have 20 series speakers doesn't automatically get you pleasing sound in a coat closet. It might please your ego but that's it. It's all about the room guys.

cityjim

[Robin Hood]

For me is not all about the room and it's not about ego, especially since Magnepan's most expensive speaker is less than $15,000. I feel that Maggies represent one of the best values in speakers period. That said there are only two current production Magnepan speakers that float my boat, the Mini Maggies and the 20.7s. I am not impressed with any of their other current speakers, but I freely recognize that other people may have different tastes.

The Mini Maggies were so special that everyone who first heard these "mystery speakers" were blown away for years to come and these small speakers were presented in a decent size room, not on the desktop.  And yes I recognize the obvious that the 20.7s will sound better in a larger room than a smaller room, but again I prefer to have a great pair of speakers and treat the room if or as necessary.

[steve in jersey]

Hmm...  Maggie's are just magical "nearfield" speakers. I don't know how many years ago it was posted, but
there was a pretty unusual placement suggestion over on the MUG board in the Planar Section on Audio Asylum in that the speakers were placed on the "Long" wall rather than the traditional "Short" wall
placement. The speakers appear to be facing each other w/ about 1/3 of the room spacing to the outside of each speaker (there is a bit of "toe'in" involved & Im not really sure about the spacing, but that's the idea)

It looks like a pretty bizarre setting, but who knows ! The thing you have to remember is that Planar speakers
don't really operate the same way dynamic speakers do !

Be brave & give it a try. Could be just crazy enough to work !

[SteveFord]

To bring this thread full circle (this is Audio Circle, after all) to the OP, did you buy the 20.7s after all and if so, how did it work out?
Just fine or trombone in the phone booth effect?

[Waker]

To bring this thread full circle….

According to the prevailing advice here that my room is just too small, I did not buy the 20.7s.  I have not purchased the 3.7i's, either--still have my 3.6R's.  What I did do was move them out farther from the front wall so they are now 5' out measured from the center of the toed-in panels--lens compresses the room a bit.  Yes, it is a game of inches--the results are dramatic in micro dynamics and imaging.  I just have to slide the couch back to maintain 9-10' of listening distance. 

I have also just finished an acoustic treatment for the left side of the room to match the pleated drapes on the right side.  I bought these room divider panels that have a woven jute material. They are 84" tall and have a plywood kick panel, each of which I have upholstered with 2" thick cotton batting, then covered with jute burlap.  The cotton is Applegate, from ATS acoustics.  The panels can be folded either way to add absorption, are free-standing, and don't look half bad, either.  See site "Oriental Furniture" for lots of ideas on room dividers, etc.  The results?  Bass is tighter, detail from left side is a bit better--nothing was made worse.  Even with what were bare walls on the left and heavy drapes on the right, the sound was not bad. It seems the dipole speakers are fairly forgiving in a small room.  Would I go to the 20.7's now?  No, I would rather have the 3 series farther out into the room.  Subs are behind Maggies, lots of gear between--probably detracts from the stage, but room is otherwise dedicated.  Thanks to all for your wisdom on room size.