[avguytx]

I do like the looks of that series of the VMPS speakers and would fit right into the group of 100lb+ pairs of speakers I have around here.  haha.  I'm not a big fan of oak veneer so that would have to be redone at some point....maybe walnut, mahogany, or cherry.  Black satin finish would look better to me than oak; I've never been a big fan of oak.  But that's not a major deal.

Well, that's a 9.5 hour drive one way so not too crazy.  Maybe that price is negotiable.  There was another set listed similar to those up north in Indiana around $1400 a pair that were black which looked nice.  Seemed to have slightly different mids in them.  I may just wait until the new house is built before I go trekking off on an expense for speakers when the house isn't even done yet.  ha.  Unless it was some stupid crazy deal.   

[James Romeyn]

Yeah, ditto on the oak.  I presume all agree on this point.  Oak is very 70s, right? 

The assistant director for "In The Heat Of The Night" TV show bought ST/R pr for the front and Tower II pair for the rear, but the older square corner cabinets.  He wanted all walnut, we had walnut TII but only oak ST/R, so a friend/cabinet guy and I refinished the oak > walnut.  Brown cloth on all 4 cabinets, looked fantastic.  In fact, I'd say the walnut veneer we glued to his ST/R was the all time best looking walnut on any VMPS, huge gorgeous walnut grain, and the satin finish looked perfect.  IMO brown cloth on walnut is killer, soft and glowy, nice. 


The ST/R SE cabinets have solid wood quarter rounds on all 4 vertical corners.  I don't know, but doubt the veneer would wrap around that 3/4" round over.  Ideas, but I'm not a carpenter: maybe sand down the finish just enough to make it hold black satin paint.  Don't know how thick is the oak veneer, but obviously big trouble if you go too far!  MDF below the veneer except for the solid oak corners.  Just not really sure how great looks black satin over oak.  We used to sell it, but we did not have a lot.  It's beats the current clear satin, but IIRC it still looks kinda 70s/80s, if you know what I mean. 


Another idea, but again, I'm no wood authority: cut a vertical reveal line with a router on each side of the solid oak corners.  Sand down the clear finish enough so the corners can take black satin paint.  Sand down the clear finish on all the flat panels, then glue down walnut veneer on all flat panels.  Black cloth only in this case, of course, to work with the black corners.  Do a drawing first to make sure it looks OK.  Another option might be brown paint on the corners instead of black, or maybe even a walnut stain on the solid oak corners.  Yeah, of course, oak grain looks very different from walnut, walnut is closed gain, oak is very open....but maybe the contrast works OK because the oak corners are small in area v. the flat panels.  Again, you just gotta thoroughly test all these options before actually doing it. 

What we did at the plant was build speakers, then burn them in for a day playing music.  The one model I enjoyed hearing more than just about any other was this exact vintage ST/R SE.  I owned the earlier square corner, and this was hugely better.  (Strangely, not the case with the Tower II....I prefer the original square corner TII v. the later SE cabinets.  Strangely, against all intuition, the mirror image mid/treble array outperformed the vertical array.)

In rare cases for the ST/R SE, we'd run out of Asia-sourced Versa Tronics WCF 5.25" and substitute Brian's own design 5.25, stamped steel basket made by Gefco IIRC.  To this day, that is one of my all time favorite cone mids, poly/graphite cone, rubber surround, more dynamic than any other VMPS cone mid, but it lacks some of the WCF smoothness and musicality.  I'd take either mid in this speaker, very hard time picking one over the other. 


If you get that speaker and have any questions, calling me is probably best.  Gotta at least clean the pots, but the thing looks pretty stellar in the images.  It's a fair amount of work to strip and reload those suckers, seriously.  It took awhile even making them all the time.  If you do refinish it, talk to me about re-locating the PR, non-mirror imaged side firing.  I am almost positive those 2 mid bass could use more internal volume.  You could convert the pedestal base to internal volume, and non-mirror imaged side firing PR would tend to damp bass modes.  (Brian changed to side firing PR in his very last model the RM-50, after my prodding for years.  I can't recall if he mirror imaged the PR, but if he did, that's fail for performance.)


If the PR are side firing and not mirror imaged, both PR fire in the same direction, causing asymmetrical path length to the nearest boundary.  Below the Schroeder frequency (circa 250 Hz depending on the room), the less is boundary to bass driver symmetry (IOW the greater the randomness), the smoother is bass performance.  This explains why a distributed bass array defines the state of the art in bass reproduction in a domestic size room, at least if price is a consideration.  If price is not a consideration, a dual bass array may offer slightly better performance for several times greater cost. 

It's a snap to upgrade the tweeter xo, only one capacitor bank.  Just insure to match the L/R channels to at least one decimal (Brian did 2 IIRC).  It would cost a bit more to upgrade the mid capacitor bank.  I would toss the silly toggle switch, but it's serious resolder work.  If you toss the switch, single wiring simply requires an external jumper cable.  If you insist on keeping the switch (don't), Dremel small hole and treat the contacts with DeOxit ProGold.


You absolutely must confirm whether it's a kit or OEM.  If the former, I'll take 5-1 odds the xo is wrong, period.  If it's a kit, I really can't advise much.  One good clear HR image of the back side of the main xo cup with the switch tells me if Brian made it or not.  The owner can easily remove the 4 cup screws, pull the cup out, and photo the back side.  If the wires are not long enough, it's a kit, period, end of report, absolute proof.       

Again, that speaker, properly running, driven by the right single amp, in the right room, shall match or exceed the performance of some $10k+ new models, maybe some even in the $15k range.  If you do refinish it, I suppose you could and should add internal bracing at that time too, especially to the baffle (use poly ply, mix of ply and mdf). 

[Stimpy]

VMPS 626 Speakers (Set of 3)  (Brighton, Colorado)  -  $900 OBO

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VMPS-626-Speakers/323337090549?hash=item4b486475f5:g:ExgAAOSwdA5bQWH9








"These are classic speakers from the 1990s that have been sitting around not getting any love. They are the 626 non ribbon models. They sound amazing. Audiophiles or those just getting into it - this is for you.

Veritone Minimum Phase Speakers, or VMPS, was a loudspeaker manufacturer founded in 1977 by speaker designer Brian Cheney. Many VMPS speakers received favorable reviews from audio critics, such as the RM40, which was awarded Best of CES in the High-End Audio category in 2002. VMPS was in operation for over 35 years, from January 1977 to December 2012, when it closed soon after the death of company owner Brian Cheney on December 7, 2012.

Set of 3 speakers - MUST go together."

[HarleyMYK]

Non-FST RM40s for local pickup in Maryland (not mine)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192596666598?ul_noapp=true

[oldhvymec]

[quote author=James Romeyn link=topic=122314.msg1694272#msg1694272 date=1530372890


If I wasn't well beyond that performance level, I'd ship those here.  Unless you spend about $4k or more, the world's best value amp to drive VMPS (including that model) is Hypex NCore NC400 (post early-mid 2017 vintage) or any NC500 based amp.  Nothing extant provides similar combination of voltage, current, and low cost.  The first 2 items are mandatory for VMPS.
 

IMO, any NC500 or a new NC400 would outperform even Brian use of 2 Son of Ampzilla stereo amps powering VMPS (Brian used one channel of each amp).  And you'd likely never run out of power with such amp.  The best overall option is likely NC400BTLM/bridged tied load mono, 1200/800/400W @ 8/4/2 Ohm, 1 Ohm minimum.     
[/quote]

Hello Mr. Romeyn,

I would like to ask how do the NC400-500 SOUND? Do they sound good? I've listen to a few different Class D amps. Quite popular with people doing live performances. They are very light. They are LOUD. Then, when they "Record Live", or go into studio they ALL do amp swaps.LOL They dig out their Marshall, Fender, and only God knows what to make "Music". That's why I ask how do they sound?  I've alway been of the opinion, it's tough to reproduce sound, if you don't have something close to what made it, originally. Speakers too!! I think that's why Brian's round speakers stock was usually high sensitivity Hifi speakers, close to PA.

I ask Maestro Brian, in 2004, "Tube or SS", he said "YES", not one or the other just "YES". He could make almost anything work with his speakers. Just how good is the question.

I like my Ampzillas, 2000, I don't use them and haven't for a while. They are wonderful to listen to, BUT, I always wind up moving SS analog amps to a bass position (< 250), and sometimes to 12000hz and above, (if I use EL34, or 6L6 (?) tube gear) If it is, 6550, KT88, or VT90, stuff I just biamp not tri.

A guy gave me  3 INukes 1000, 3000, 6000 (4 button) to play with, all with dsp. LOUD! GEEZ LOUD! ALL Class D
Distortion levels were TO HIGH on the 1000, The 3000 was ok and the 6000 was as followed:
Distortion was in audible <10% (to me). at 113 db <250hz, 8 ohm load per rail. 4 ohm whole different story thing start changing. 17% at 121 db, and 23% at 127 db 2 ohm load.  I could hear the amp/amps tearing up the speakers (28 db ear protection on, and plugs). 12" Test stack of, 6, 12" 40 dollar 3.6 ohm DVC PA, drivers, in a 12 cu ft cabinet 84" tall, 2 inches thick all sides with bracing and 2 12" HE PR, 500 lbs or so. I wire for (test) loads of 1-24 0hm depending on drivers and application.  The drivers survived, but a thermal gun showed voice coil OVER HEAT, pretty quick.  I wouldn't hook them to anything with TRUE ribbons, especially the ribbons Lance has.
Your NOT gonna find them, in case of turning them into Christmas tree tensile, God forbid!
Point is, if it is NOT biamped there is a lot of distortion going into some very difficult drivers to find.

I went to a highly modded set of Adcom 565s (mono blocks), very close to 1000 watts RMS @ 2 ohm, per rail, AB nelson pass design.
I paid 700.00 for the that pair, and another 600.00, for PS caps (70,000 standard I add another 40,000 total 110,000). That lowered noise, increased treble and bass response. Closely matched sound caps with EVEN BETTER bi pass caps added for MUCH better 1k> response. Closely matched resistors (seldom done) to speed it up, quiet it down, equalize and lower rail heat.  Who knows peak to peak, maybe 2-3000 watts per rail. They did 132 db BUT 10-12% distortion 1-2 ohm load (they were at 3/4 throttle). 121 db wired at a 2 ohm load <2%. 4 ohm load <.5% at 119 db (again 3/4 throttle). Those amps can heat up a room, LOL BUT sound so good.
 
They (Nelson Pass design. BLUEPRINTED) come very close to matching the sound of my favorite amp, of ALL time, the Mcintosh MC240 with The Samra touch. Mike Samra. Great rebuilder, BUT VERY BUSY and a little slow due to health problems. Not much of a blogger but one heck of a TALKER. He'll can walk you through anything and WILL, if you are able.

I don't care what an amps is rated at, HOW DOES IT SOUND, and what does it cost?  The voice coils warmed up but NEVER supper heat. The electric company bill is not a current issue with me.  That's the difference to me, Will the amps TEAR up the speakers, and crossovers? You can spend a QUICK couple of grand on REALLY good, caps, coils, pots, wire, not to mention drivers.
 
I Read all the time about "drivers needed", why?  Usually bad power supply (wall socket, to power conditioner, if used at ALL), surge protectors are a REAL bad idea, (ALL JUNK from what I've seen). AND THE NUMBER ONE KILLER of ALL SS gear, LOW voltage. A cheap substandard amp, or receiver, dies even quicker. 25 year old XOs. If it's not, teflon, or some LONG lasting majical cap, 25 years is a long, LONG time for caps and the VERY BEST coils, to last.  Brian's had switches and pots, on the older stuff, ugly sometimes. With ALL that said VMPS is "The Best" of all time. IMO

I can FEEL and hear from 15 to 14000 hz STILL at 63. So my next question is "well beyond that performance level". Your referring to speakers?

My cousin bought STIII SEs (Krell guy). He had 75,000 it that system by the time he was done.  I think the speakers were the least expensive part, a CD player for 4-5000.00 dollars.  I bought Tower II SEs (Mcintosh and anything good). I paid a 2/3s less for the speakers, but very very close in SOUND reproduction (IMO), just for a smaller room. It kinda ticked him off when I picked a second pair of Tower IIs and a third. There are still very few IIISEs for sale. I was at 8,000. thousand on my system. I stacked one set UPSIDE down on top of the other, and on pair in the rear.  It sounded quite a bit better than the single set of IIIse.  Room size then was 20x30x9 foot lids.  We both upgraded to WCF with Phase Plugs and I worked the crossovers. We both REMOVED the WCF drivers and went back to graphite, left the crossover upgrades, (hand made paper and oil caps, in glass with haylar end caps, by Ike? killer caps)
That is GREAT sound, to ME!
Since then I built GR8 lattice towers (4 or 5 ribbon per) to accommodate my TIISEs, (I run a single set now), with a single VLA style bass box, pretty stunning, NOW!  It will give any speaker system a run for the money. IMHO This is the sound I like, Fast, DEAP, SHARP, No mud. It can bounce you out of your position. Sound comes from EVERYWHERE with crystal clarity at the perfect time. I'm prone to stand and move a lot in a room.
I like SALSA, American Blues, Older R&R, County Western, Jazz, Trip Hop, Hip Hop, Classical, POP,  and just about anything else.
BUT No! Yoko Ono, draw the line there. I can listen to Rose Ann, sing the national Anthem, and Hulk Hogan Rap, BUT NO, YOKO ONO.
 
Vinyl, CD, MP3, Reel to Reel, Cassette or The Music Channel all good. Once again NO YOKO ONO. No matter what recorded it.

What is the best NOW. for 6000.00 or less in a speaker? My problem is space.  I don't have the parking space NOW.
I've got Elixirs tipped up in my shop, for god sakes. I went to sleep with them last night, listening to landscapes. Heavenly!

I've had LOTS and got rid of, LOTS and LOTS more. I just keep coming back to VMPS and Infinity(RS) for commercial speakers.
Like I said before with exception to hand made speakers cabinets, I've found no better. Now, back to the laboratory.

Well that was a mouth full.

Regards

[oldhvymec]

REPOST

https://tucson.craigslist.org/ele/d/vmps-ff3-special-ribbon/6509742132.html

Does anyone know the impedance of this particular ribbon driver?  I would love to hear this speaker.
I bet these sound like heaven. This is one of the few VMPS speakers I've never heard.
I've heard a few of the Dyna ribbon models. Those spiral tweets would have to go too.
My 808s went through a few sets. I tossed all of them for 1" soft dome morels, much nicer on the ears,
and never blew, again. Over 20 years now.

Regards

[James Romeyn]

olshvymec
I'll reply later via PM.

[Stimpy]

olshvymec
I'll reply later via PM.

Hey James,

One of the reasons I started this thread, was to generate hits for the VMPS Forum.  As such, I certainly don't mind if you post "off-topic" info in my For Sale thread.  Info is info.  And when it pertains to VMPS, I really don't care where's it's posted, as long as I can read along too.   

Take care,

Stimpy

[Stimpy]

VMPS Large Center  -  (fremont / union city / newark, CA)  $500

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/d/vmps-large-center/6640979865.html






"Well maintained large center channel speaker. We have attached this link for more information.

http://pointillistic.com/vmps-audio/HT-LRC.htm

We have original box and Zu speaker cables. Local pickup only and exchange will be at the Fremont Police Department designated parking spaces on Stevenson Blvd. $500 or reasonable best offer. Cash or PayPal only.

If you are building a system, see our other listings for VMPS RM-2 (pair), VMPS QSO 626 (pair), HSU Research VTF HO with Turbocharger, Outlaw Audio 990 Preamp/processor, Outlaw Audio 755 Amp 5 x 200 watt."

[Stimpy]

VMPS RM-2 (Pair)  -  (fremont / union city / newark, CA)  $1000

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/d/vmps-rm-2-pair/6640979710.html





"These are a pair of well maintained high end speakers. We have attached this link with more information.

http://pointillistic.com/vmps-audio/RM2.htm

We have original boxes. Zu biwire speaker cables included. Local pickup only and exchange will be at Fremont Police Department designated parking spaces on Stevenson Blvd. Cash or PayPal only.

If you are building a system, see our other listings for HSU Research VTF HO with Turbocharger, VMPS Large Center, VMPS QSO 626 (pair), Outlaw Audio 990 Preamp/processor, Outlaw Audio 755 Amp 5 x 200 watt. $1,000 or reasonable best offer."

[Stimpy]

VMPS QSO 626 (Pair) With Stands  -  (fremont / union city / newark, CA)  $400

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/d/vmps-qso-626-pair-with-stands/6640982066.html





"Well maintained VMPS QSO 626 speakers with stands. Have two six inch woofers and one inch tweeter which have been used for surround speakers.

We have original box and Zu speaker cables. Local pickup only and exchange will be at the Fremont Police Department designated parking spaces on Stevenson Blvd. $400 or best reasonable offer. Cash or PayPal only.

If you are building a system, see our other listings for VMPS RM-2 (pair), VMPS Large Center, HSU Research VTF HO with Turbocharger, Outlaw Audio 990 Preamp/processor, Outlaw Audio 755 Amp 5 x 200 watt."

[James Romeyn]

The tower above with 6 neo planar mids: I don't know the impedance for that mid range array.   There are 2 versions of the neo planar mid, one is around 2 Ohm, the other around 4 Ohm.  That mid range array likely comprises 4 Ohm, two parallel banks of 3 in series = 6 Ohm for the mid planar array alone, lower when the xo is included.  The entire speaker's minimum impedance and phase angle are likely very difficult.   

The only tube amps I recall Brian using at shows were VTL (when David was FOB from Britain and Luke may have still been a teen) and 200W Atma-Sphere OTL.  In latter years Brian owned a CJ tube amp but I never saw it in use.  I presume tubes would help soften the neo planar mid range's large 1k Hz peak. 

All VMPS with cone mid employ QSO xo between the mid bass and cone mid range.  In all models treble drivers employ electrical first order xo.  Super treble drivers (when present) employ 2nd order electrical xo.  True ribbon mid range and planar mid range comprise 2nd order xo.  These speakers tend to be difficult loads to extremely difficult loads, with low minimum impedance and/or high magnitude of phase angle.  No VMPS speaker is a moderate nor easy load.  With such load, the greater the SS amp's current and voltage capacity, the better is audible performance.


All the Class D amps I know of that drive a 1 Ohm load like NC400 and NC500 cost more. 

For Brian's speakers, because they are generally so difficult to drive, I'd prefer a new NC400S over even a pair of Ampzilla mono (lack 2 Ohm rating, presume 2 Ohm minimum...NC400S rated 600W @ 2 Ohm, 1 Ohm minimum).  A member here owns RMX and had access to many costly amps.  His favorite by wide margin was his Rowland Class D, which makes a ton of power and drives low impedance loads.

Another way to view this: powering a moderate to easy to drive speaker one might debate whether NC400S has competition, albeit likely at greater cost.  Driving speakers as difficult to drive as VMPS, the debate is much more difficult if not impossible.


Ncore amps are also easy to drive, with 100k Ohm input impedance and requiring about 1.7V for full output.  Gain is normally about 25dB, 13 dB with one R removed at the input.  Noise is even lower at the lower gain setting.  True fully balanced input; unbalanced source almost matches balanced source performance when using recommended IC method.

The more difficult the load and the greater the amp's current capacity, the lower must be speaker cable series resistance.  Speaker cable with too high a series R tends to convert amplifier current into useless heat before it reaches the speaker, same as using too thin a cable to jump start a car, or too long a mains extension for the given gauge.  Again, if the load is easy and/or if the amp lacks current capacity, cable R is less an issue.

To test whether or not you need less cable R: listen to one speaker only, playing dense/difficult program at moderate to above moderate level.  Connect the unused speaker cable (double the cable run, which halves R) and replay the same program at the same level. If you hear no difference, the cable is fine.  If you hear a difference, you need higher current capacity cable w/less R.  You likely won't need to redo the test.  NC400 driving a difficult load tends to blow up the online calculator specs for minimum required cable gauge.                     

[oldhvymec]

 

[James Romeyn]

Ncore compared to another quality amp like Ampzilla 2000, both driving a large VMPS speaker: first, let's presume the source is well sorted, and that means very good vinyl and/or a state of the art server/player streaming Red Book or better to a good DAC (the source IFO the DAC is at least as critical as the DAC).  I am firmly among those convinced that silver disc spinning is for back ground music only, and for critical listening is pure fail with no known exception regardless the cost.  If you spin a silver disc you must stop doing so and buy a streaming service (even outperforms HD and SSD).  Also a very good line preamp, though unbalanced is OK. 


The Ncore would be noticeably quieter, with a blacker background.  There would be less audible distortion, and the bass would go deeper and be of better quality.  The Ncore won't replicate a tube amp perspective, except that its spatial qualities would outperform just about any tube amp except for an Atma-Sphere OTL.  Dynamics would be better, especially in the bass.  Any amp with better bass would cost several times as much.


Borrow a $3k NAD Class D amp, the model based on NC500 (forgot the model, maybe M22).  That would give you a pretty darn good taste of what I'm talking about.  It's very possible though, that NC400 is even better suited for VMPS than the NAD, because the load is very difficult and NC400 provides more current than the NAD's NC500.


Again, for Ncore > large VMPS, I can't over stress how critical is it to use a speaker cable with current capacity of 6AWG copper.  Lacking such, the entire exercise could be in vain.  See above described test to confirm suitability of your present speaker cable.         

[oldhvymec]

 

[oldhvymec]

 

[oldhvymec]

 

[Stimpy]

VMPS RM-40 Speakers 2009 Edition  -  (Pioneer, California)  $1900

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VMPS-RM-40-Speakers-2009-Edition/302811165282?hash=item4680f3b262%3Ag%3Ax-oAAOSw1qtbUOqK&_sacat=293&_nkw=vmps&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313&LH_TitleDesc=0





"These were purchased in 2009 in person from Brian at VMPS.

If you like live music you will love these.

As anyone who was familiar with VMPS, cosmetics weren’t Brian’s strong point but the sound of these RM-40’s just blew me away.

I won’t name the speakers that these literally blew away but I will say that they were both Considered class a by stereophile magazine.

Cosmetically from your seated position they look great but up close the veneer has bubbling which could be fixed by you or a furniture repair person on the cheap.

I never bothered as the sound of these are just magic both for 2 channel listening and home theatre.

They weigh 240 pounds each so they are for local pick up only. NO SHIPPING OF ANY KIND so please refrain from asking as I won’t reply.

Local pick up only

Reason for selling is I have back issues so I am returning to monitor

The veneer is Cherry"

[oldhvymec]

Hello






I'm looking for a pair of drivers. I heard a pop. Uhh 15 years no problems.

Top ribbon, on one side blew. Matched and new would be just perfect. If possible.

Thanks

[Stimpy]

Hello






I'm looking for a pair of drivers. I heard a pop. Uhh 15 years no problems.

Top ribbon, on one side blew. Matched and new would be just perfect. If possible.

Thanks

Are they JVC ribbons?




https://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-RIBBON-LEAF-TWEETER-SPEAKER-GOOD-CONDITION/113152652791?hash=item1a586c75f7%3Ag%3A8o8AAOSwlVJbTMIu&_sop=10&_sacat=293&_nkw=jvc+ribbon&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0%7C0