[wushuliu]

Are you talking about the Astron power supplies?

http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-004423

Lol, yes I know. I was being a smart ass. Sorry.

[OzarkTom]

here is a 7amp in rough shape for $29 on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASTRON-13-8-VOLT-POWER-SUPPLY-MODEL-RS-7A-5A-CONTINUOUS-7A-50-DUTY-EXCELLENT-/111336864052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ec31b934

[wushuliu]

here is a 7amp in rough shape for $29 on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASTRON-13-8-VOLT-POWER-SUPPLY-MODEL-RS-7A-5A-CONTINUOUS-7A-50-DUTY-EXCELLENT-/111336864052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ec31b934

Really $50 shipped. These supplies are clearly heavy since average shipping seems to be $25 for them so really they are more like $60 and higher for one in decent condition. The sweet spot seems to be the 12As or so. I'll probably get one soon before the prices go up thanks to you Tom!

[OzarkTom]

Really $50 shipped. These supplies are clearly heavy since average shipping seems to be $25 for them so really they are more like $60 and higher for one in decent condition. The sweet spot seems to be the 12As or so. I'll probably get one soon before the prices go up thanks to you Tom!

You are welcome. But I mentioned this months ago on the TBI thread. These are heavy little units but shipping shouldn't be over $20. Some on Ebay likes to gouge on the shipping.

[skriefal]

Ebay takes 10% of the final sales price, including 10% of the shipping fee that the seller charges the buyer.  Most sellers seem to increase their shipping prices to cover the 10% that Ebay takes from the shipping, and I can understand that.  Many also increase their shipping prices to cover the 10% that Ebay takes from the sales price of the item.  That I do disagree with.

[Markvdv]

wushuliu:  Truely from another planet:)

Regarding my 1 week with Panasonic 680uF's 4x with 3116PBTL first impression last week was:
re:rhing txs once again. I wrote off the Pan. FM cap after listening to it with sure3110, and quite a high value F it was. In 3116's I put in four 680uF FM's a couple of hours ago, first impressions: not harsh like with 3110. Voices seem clearer, more forward, bass is louder but not all bass, real low bass isn't, PinkFloyd "FletcherMemorial" bass doesn't move more air, it is above that frequence. But bass seems better integrated with rest of music. Above voices, cymbals seem a little more back/weaker in the mix, and for now less detailed more like noise/hiss, but will listen to these for at least a week now.

One week later: Bass is best I heard with my 3116, now also includes lower bass, perfectly seemless integrated in with rest of music. Treble/mid is still clear/forward in voices/violin, with voices now there is more often an edge (microphone?) and gets close to a point I called harsh befor, border. Cymbals still softer in the mix, did regain a little more tone, the noise/hiss association is less, but compared to other caps they still are not really good in these highs. Also switching to tpa3110 with Nichicon Muse KZ reveals much more soundstage detail yet the edge, lower in frequency is gone. Previous I had low impedance United Chemicons in 3116, they had highs and soundstage detail at least comparable to Nichicon Muse in tpa3110. The bass of UC caps is more detached from music and a little less in amplitude and detail.

Tubepre will increase soundstage so I am told, most likely also remove edge from voices. But I feel what went missing in cymbals can not be regained earlier in soundchain, it is lost supplying power to the tpa3116. I havent tried silmics and nichicons with 3116 lets see/hear they have been waiting for weeks to get a chance:)

[OzarkTom]

Ebay takes 10% of the final sales price, including 10% of the shipping fee that the seller charges the buyer.  Most sellers seem to increase their shipping prices to cover the 10% that Ebay takes from the shipping, and I can understand that.  Many also increase their shipping prices to cover the 10% that Ebay takes from the sales price of the item.  That I do disagree with.

What irks me is that some of these sellers are asking 35-50 bucks for shipping on these PSU's. You might as well buy a new one with free shipping from HRO. I believe a new 12 is $89.

[wushuliu]

wushuliu:  Truely from another planet:)

Regarding my 1 week with Panasonic 680uF's 4x with 3116PBTL first impression last week was:
re:rhing txs once again. I wrote off the Pan. FM cap after listening to it with sure3110, and quite a high value F it was. In 3116's I put in four 680uF FM's a couple of hours ago, first impressions: not harsh like with 3110. Voices seem clearer, more forward, bass is louder but not all bass, real low bass isn't, PinkFloyd "FletcherMemorial" bass doesn't move more air, it is above that frequence. But bass seems better integrated with rest of music. Above voices, cymbals seem a little more back/weaker in the mix, and for now less detailed more like noise/hiss, but will listen to these for at least a week now.

One week later: Bass is best I heard with my 3116, now also includes lower bass, perfectly seemless integrated in with rest of music. Treble/mid is still clear/forward in voices/violin, with voices now there is more often an edge (microphone?) and gets close to a point I called harsh befor, border. Cymbals still softer in the mix, did regain a little more tone, the noise/hiss association is less, but compared to other caps they still are not really good in these highs. Also switching to tpa3110 with Nichicon Muse KZ reveals much more soundstage detail yet the edge, lower in frequency is gone. Previous I had low impedance United Chemicons in 3116, they had highs and soundstage detail at least comparable to Nichicon Muse in tpa3110. The bass of UC caps is more detached from music and a little less in amplitude and detail.

Tubepre will increase soundstage so I am told, most likely also remove edge from voices. But I feel what went missing in cymbals can not be regained earlier in soundchain, it is lost supplying power to the tpa3116. I havent tried silmics and nichicons with 3116 lets see/hear they have been waiting for weeks to get a chance:)

I'd be curious what you think of the hybrid electrolytics. Since I made a lot of changes at once it's hard to say what contribution they are making, but I definitely don't have the slight haze/edge/etc. that new PS caps tend to exhibit at first before settling down. Clean from the get go.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/EEH-ZC1E331P/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugZXMPcJxEa3bgIAqdHUVHK6dO9FUupIPQ%3d

Nice bonus is the leads fold down so that they can be used as SMDs or regular through-hole. Clever.

[ttan98]

Hi,

I thought you guys may like to try this as a power supply, I own a Sure Electronics TK2050 2*50 watter,(I just purchased TPA3116 to try later) and I use battery as power supply supplying 24Vdc to the TK2050. I use 4*6V battery, 2 in series and then parallel, Power Sonic battery, model PS1250 is easily available in the States for about $15-$20 each.
I did not mod my TK2050 it was already sounded quite good(*), after mods it will sound even better. Do try this alternative it will not disappoint. The Class D amp is very efficient, recharging is not really a problem, e.g. the amp was playing music for 3-4 hrs, there was a drop of just about 1volt.

* I compared it against LM3875, Class A F5, etc.,  it is up there when compared with them, all of them do sound  a little different.

[rhing]

I'd be curious what you think of the hybrid electrolytics. Since I made a lot of changes at once it's hard to say what contribution they are making, but I definitely don't have the slight haze/edge/etc. that new PS caps tend to exhibit at first before settling down. Clean from the get go.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/EEH-ZC1E331P/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugZXMPcJxEa3bgIAqdHUVHK6dO9FUupIPQ%3d

Nice bonus is the leads fold down so that they can be used as SMDs or regular through-hole. Clever.

Just when I thought I could settle down with my TPA3116 amp, I find that there are more parts to try out. Not complaining though. This is what makes this hobby fun 

[wushuliu]

Just when I thought I could settle down with my TPA3116 amp, I find that there are more parts to try out. Not complaining though. This is what makes this hobby fun

And the parts are inexpensive. I spent about $60 shipped on everything (except the input caps which I had laying around) including spares. The Coilcrafts had speedy shipping.

[Markvdv]

Next time I order something I will certainly add some hybrid caps. Japanese designer used Oscons for tpa3110 design, also lot of diodes in output and even beads below some solid polymer for PSU near tpachip. And oh some smd's seem colorcoded, never noticed that.

(Pan FM's edge wasn't there when I listened after 2 hours playtime last week, week later there is, less than with larger values I tried befor. You could call that snappy and live with it, but cymbals not good, cant live with that and imaging also poorer then 3110 with 330 uF Muse.)

[rhing]

And the parts are inexpensive. I spent about $60 shipped on everything (except the input caps which I had laying around) including spares. The Coilcrafts had speedy shipping.

In your opinion, does your newly modified Yuan Jing TPA3116 blue amp sound better than the TBI Millenia TPA3100 amp?

[wushuliu]

In your opinion, does your newly modified Yuan Jing TPA3116 blue amp sound better than the TBI Millenia TPA3100 amp?

Been a while now since I had the Millenia and mine did not have the power supply mod but yes I feel very confident it sounds much, much better. Back when I had the Millenia I compared it to a slightly modified 3100D2 stock board from TI and did not hear an appreciable difference, with the edge going to my stock board (which is why I eventually sold the TBI). So I think a competent stock 3116 would still sound better anyway. But my Decepticon just sounds awesome. The clarity and transparency is superb. Clean, clean, clean. See-through sound. I know when I've done good when I immediately stop thinking about the amp and head straight to listening to different music and other things. It's like a 'done' switch gets flipped and I stop musing about what I can mod next.

I can't imagine getting more out of it other than flavoring by trying different input caps, etc. So no, I don't believe the Millenia came anywhere close to this. Of course I'm sure I'll play around with other parts for kicks eventually, but this build is now my reference. After 2 years of modding various TPA amps I feel like I've reached the mountaintop.

I do think the onboard PS caps, inductors, gain setting, and potentially the bootstraps are the areas where the greatest difference can be made.

Tom shrugs off my comments about the TBI not doing the PS caps as part of their upgrade, but I maintain that the TBI could be improved by swapping the cheap (Jamicon?) caps and playing with the inductors as ALL TPA amps I have modded respond to these changes and the feedback from others with similar experiences attest to this.

I'll take some credit for bringing the TPA to the diyaudio crowd and now 18mos/2yrs? later ebay is flooded with them (which was my goal). I remember telling Tom way back when the TBI tour first started that the diy crowd needed to get a hold of these chips in a big way. Mission accomplished. Very happy.

[rhing]

Very cool. Thank you and others on this thread and the diyAudio.com thread for sharing your experiences on these amps. I had almost given up on Class D amps based on the limitations of the Tripath amps--they're good, but not great. Taking these TI amps through mods and tweaks on a paltry budget is a real eye-opener. Can't wait to implement more mods.

[matt_garman]

This weekend, I tweaked my tpa3116 build a little bit.  Main change was to add a volume pot (same $1.37 Panny EVJ 50k ohm I used on my tpa3110 build).  I also tried to clean things up a bit.  Still looks messy compared to Rhing's builds, but I think I'm moving in the right direction.  You can see I also threw a 2200uF / 35V cap across the power inputs.  Furthermore, I'm using shielded wire for the input, and before, I didn't connect the shielding to ground, so the effect was presumably negated.  This time I actually soldered the shielding to ground.  The shielded wire I have doesn't have a drain wire, so I have to bunch up the un-braided foil and just solder it as a big glob to ground.  I covered up all that messiness with electrical tape. 



Here's a shot of the (mostly) finished product (waiting on a volume knob from ebay).  This is a reminder of why you always use masking tape over everything when drilling.



Anyway, adding the volume knob allowed me to do a more "fair" comparison between my tpa3110 and tpa3116 builds.  Before the volume knob on the tpa3116, I had to control volume via software.

I spent some time this weekend going back and forth between the two.  On my system, and to my ears, I think I still give the 3110 a slight nod.  Could I tell the difference in a blind test?  Probably not.

Side note: I also picked up an Astron RS-12A power supply from ebay.  (FWIW: $36 + $10 shipping, in pretty good condition.  Hard to beat Rhing's $20 like-new Craigslist score!)  I did a lot of back-and-forth between the Astron and the "K-Tec" 12V/2A wall-wart I got from Parts-Express (Part # 120-052) with the 3110 only, and I couldn't hear a difference.  I know, that's blasphemy!    But, I wonder if power supply quality matters more at higher current draw levels?  Just an idea, but with my nearfield (desktop) setup, and ~65 dB listening levels, I'm not pulling much juice; a minimal load even for the wimpy little wall-wart.  That, and/or my system simply isn't revealing enough.

I'm also starting to re-read the entire diyaudio tpa3116 thread.  A lot of info I skipped over or didn't understand the first time through now seems much more relevant.

In particular, I realized that the 3110 is a filterless design, i.e. the $10 Sure board doesn't have any large LC output filter.  And that's why the ferrite beads are recommended, as they can help filter the FM frequencies out of the output (i.e. prevent your speaker wires from becoming broadcast antennas).

Whereas the 3116 boards all have an LC network for filtering out the inaudible noise introduced by the class-d amp circuit.  One interesting note is that the older/cheaper "red" YJ boards used 22uH inductors and the newer "blue" YJ boards use 10uH inductors for output filter.  Based on my (cursory) understanding, the former is better suited to an 8 ohm speaker load, and the latter a 4 ohm speaker load.

Given that my speakers are 8 ohm, and lots of people report improvements with output filter inductor replacement, I'm thinking that's where I ought to focus my next mod efforts.

[DaveC113]

Been a while now since I had the Millenia and mine did not have the power supply mod but yes I feel very confident it sounds much, much better. Back when I had the Millenia I compared it to a slightly modified 3100D2 stock board from TI and did not hear an appreciable difference, with the edge going to my stock board (which is why I eventually sold the TBI). So I think a competent stock 3116 would still sound better anyway. But my Decepticon just sounds awesome. The clarity and transparency is superb. Clean, clean, clean. See-through sound. I know when I've done good when I immediately stop thinking about the amp and head straight to listening to different music and other things. It's like a 'done' switch gets flipped and I stop musing about what I can mod next.

I can't imagine getting more out of it other than flavoring by trying different input caps, etc. So no, I don't believe the Millenia came anywhere close to this. Of course I'm sure I'll play around with other parts for kicks eventually, but this build is now my reference. After 2 years of modding various TPA amps I feel like I've reached the mountaintop.

I do think the onboard PS caps, inductors, gain setting, and potentially the bootstraps are the areas where the greatest difference can be made.

Tom shrugs off my comments about the TBI not doing the PS caps as part of their upgrade, but I maintain that the TBI could be improved by swapping the cheap (Jamicon?) caps and playing with the inductors as ALL TPA amps I have modded respond to these changes and the feedback from others with similar experiences attest to this.

I'll take some credit for bringing the TPA to the diyaudio crowd and now 18mos/2yrs? later ebay is flooded with them (which was my goal). I remember telling Tom way back when the TBI tour first started that the diy crowd needed to get a hold of these chips in a big way. Mission accomplished. Very happy.

Probably also means that this amp may be a better choice than a basic SET amp like Bottlehead, Decware, etc?

I had the TBI amp as well and it was not at all competitive with my (higher end) EL34 SET amp in many ways, maybe these new boards are worth a try...

[seikosha]

Probably also means that this amp may be a better choice than a basic SET amp like Bottlehead, Decware, etc?

I had the TBI amp as well and it was not at all competitive with my (higher end) EL34 SET amp in many ways, maybe these new boards are worth a try...

I've got a Decware SE84CKC and a red board 3116 and 3110.  I actually have a blue board 3116 coming in this week.  The 3116 is a pretty darn good amp and when you factor in the price, it's impressive.  Compared to the TPA amps, I definitely do prefer the Decware which is more dynamic, more dimensional and provides a little more foundation to the music as well.  That said, there's a pretty big price differential between these and the fact that I can throw the 3116 in my system and appreciate it says a lot about this little amp.

[Markvdv]

The green black SMD's on japanese pcb are Rubicons polymer smd:roll:
Good price for smd 

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/100ST104MB23225/1189-2042-1-ND/3986907

[OzarkTom]

Been a while now since I had the Millenia and mine did not have the power supply mod but yes I feel very confident it sounds much, much better. Back when I had the Millenia I compared it to a slightly modified 3100D2 stock board from TI and did not hear an appreciable difference, with the edge going to my stock board (which is why I eventually sold the TBI). So I think a competent stock 3116 would still sound better anyway. But my Decepticon just sounds awesome. The clarity and transparency is superb. Clean, clean, clean. See-through sound. I know when I've done good when I immediately stop thinking about the amp and head straight to listening to different music and other things. It's like a 'done' switch gets flipped and I stop musing about what I can mod next.

I can't imagine getting more out of it other than flavoring by trying different input caps, etc. So no, I don't believe the Millenia came anywhere close to this. Of course I'm sure I'll play around with other parts for kicks eventually, but this build is now my reference. After 2 years of modding various TPA amps I feel like I've reached the mountaintop.

I do think the onboard PS caps, inductors, gain setting, and potentially the bootstraps are the areas where the greatest difference can be made.

Tom shrugs off my comments about the TBI not doing the PS caps as part of their upgrade, but I maintain that the TBI could be improved by swapping the cheap (Jamicon?) caps and playing with the inductors as ALL TPA amps I have modded respond to these changes and the feedback from others with similar experiences attest to this.

I'll take some credit for bringing the TPA to the diyaudio crowd and now 18mos/2yrs? later ebay is flooded with them (which was my goal). I remember telling Tom way back when the TBI tour first started that the diy crowd needed to get a hold of these chips in a big way. Mission accomplished. Very happy.

Through all the years I have been in this hobby I have learned to never speculate or generalize. If you do, it normally bites you in the behind. So if I have never heard it in my system, I never speculate.

Unfortunately wushuliu never did hear the very latest version of the Millenia. I remember very well the version he had and the current version I now have. There is no comparison, the latest version is significantly better. And if wushuliu's amp is significantly better than the first version he had, the comparison between his and the Millenia should actually be close. And if his amp did significantly beat the very latest version of the Millenia, then all audiophiles should just get rid of their current amp and get one of these. No other amp made today would ever touch it.

Probably the only way to improve these amps further is to hook up the Dueland Alexander caps but they are so expensive and large. And who wants to spend 500 hours to wait for the break-in? Been there, done that.

And to generalize that all PPS caps are no good is like saying all SET amps are no good just because you heard two or three bad ones. All PPS caps are not the same. These PPS caps are not Jamicon, but I cannot tell anyone the caps TBI uses. If I had found these and modded the amp on my own I would let everyone know. These caps did make a significant difference.

What started my road to these amps was the TNT audio review of about three years ago.