Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs

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cloudbaseracer

Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« on: 3 Nov 2013, 03:28 am »
I am wondering if you guys have ever made your own sub "pad" that decouples it from the floor or surface that it is sitting on?  I have seen the Auralex GRAMMA but would like a DIY option if available. 

Cheers,
James

RDavidson

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Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #1 on: 3 Nov 2013, 05:34 am »
How much are you looking to spend? A Gramma can be had for about $50, which seems pretty reasonable to me personally, especially given that I don't have the resources to experiment with building something. You might try something like a set of Quest For Sound Isol-pads for $25. If they don't work as well for your sub as you'd like, you could always use them under another component.

rajacat

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Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #2 on: 3 Nov 2013, 05:42 am »
This site has a lot of useful soundproofing materials that could be used to construct some sort of pad. I've thought about doing the same thing myself. You can even get sheets of lead and lead tape here.

http://www.supersoundproofingsales.com/Vibration-Pads/products/25/

jk@home

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Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #3 on: 3 Nov 2013, 12:58 pm »
You could use towels or some of those vibration eliminator pads sold for HVAC equipment. The Auralex product that is for subs is the Sub Dude (which looks similar to the GRAMMA).

http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_subdude/subdude_hd.asp

cloudbaseracer

Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #4 on: 3 Nov 2013, 02:30 pm »
How much are you looking to spend? A Gramma can be had for about $50, which seems pretty reasonable to me personally, especially given that I don't have the resources to experiment with building something. You might try something like a set of Quest For Sound Isol-pads for $25. If they don't work as well for your sub as you'd like, you could always use them under another component.

Not really sure on a price and it is more the size and style of the GRAMMA as it is not really made for a home environment.  I am just looking for options and if I DIY it can be sized to fit my sub instead of some pre-fab size that is too big in one dimension and too small in the other. 

This site has a lot of useful soundproofing materials that could be used to construct some sort of pad. I've thought about doing the same thing myself. You can even get sheets of lead and lead tape here.

http://www.supersoundproofingsales.com/Vibration-Pads/products/25/

Thanks for the link. It looks like a lot of those are 3/8 - 7/8" thick.  Which would you use?  I know the Auralex is quite a bit thicker.

I have heard of people using drywall paint prep sanding foam blocks but those are only 1" thick and 3.5" x 2.5".  Do you guys think the isolating material needs to cover the whole bottom or just get the sub up off of what it is sitting on?

Cheers,
James

RDavidson

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Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #5 on: 3 Nov 2013, 03:13 pm »
Actually, I have an Ampdude, not a Gramma or Subdude. What's confusing is apparently the Ampdude was formerly the original Subdude and some places still sell it as the Subdude.....which is the way I bought it. Even Auralex via Amazon sells it this way. Now they have the Subdude II and the Subdude HT. :duh: Regardless of how they're marketed, they're all designed to perform pretty much the same job........which is likely why the Ampdude is also sold as the "Subdude." I just bought what would fit my sub best in terms of size and weight.

Anyway, I'm not exactly sure what the important aspects of subwoofer isolation are, other than cabinet vibration dampening. Raising it off the floor is also apparently important, but I'm not sure how to arrive at the "proper" height, if there is one. This is likely more dependent on room size / shape more than anything else.

jk@home

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Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #6 on: 3 Nov 2013, 03:59 pm »
I have the Subdude HTs, although not using them right now. A word of caution, if your sub's weight is unbalanced (such as the front being heavier due to extra front baffle thickness, plus drivers) The HT will sink down slightly on the heavier side. If you have a plate amp in the back, probably not an issue.


hi5harry

Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #7 on: 3 Nov 2013, 05:32 pm »
This is obviously only for a cave situation. I put my twin Velodyne DD 18's up on 20 inch redwood rounds. This is just a cross section of a redwood tree cut straight across. Probably about 80 lbs. each. Then put the subs up on points to sink into the rounds. Lastly  I got 60 lb. bags of sand and wrapped them in some black felt and laid them on top of the subs. The articulation and lack of " floor slap" from being off the ground was a lot better. The bass slam from being weighted ( from maybe 75 lbs to now over 200lbs) was astonishing! Cave worthy.

seanoo

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Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #8 on: 4 Nov 2013, 02:56 am »
I've had pretty good success using Vibrapods for both large tower speakers and subs. They have a range of sizes to accommodate all loads and have then benefit of being movable to balance the speaker if the load is uneven.

One word if caution though: the can leave a residue after a while so it's best to have something between them and the floor. I've used a piece of mdf cut to match the speaker size and this has worked well.

Rob Babcock

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Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #9 on: 4 Nov 2013, 04:06 am »
I've had pretty good success using Vibrapods for both large tower speakers and subs. They have a range of sizes to accommodate all loads and have then benefit of being movable to balance the speaker if the load is uneven.

One word if caution though: the can leave a residue after a while so it's best to have something between them and the floor. I've used a piece of mdf cut to match the speaker size and this has worked well.

Thanks, and welcome to AC, Seanoo. :thumb:

seanoo

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Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #10 on: 4 Nov 2013, 08:21 am »
Thanks Rob :thumb:

cloudbaseracer

Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #11 on: 5 Nov 2013, 02:51 pm »
I just read about people using tennis balls under their subs.  I may try this instead of the Subdude by cutting a donut shaped piece of foam and place this inside. The one thing I am not sure about is whether the Subdude has any special properties or if it is really just a high density foam?

Any of you guys ever tried the tennis balls?

Cheers,
James

RDavidson

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Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #12 on: 5 Nov 2013, 03:59 pm »
It may be some kind of "special" foam, but it can't be all that special. I honestly doubt they formulated the foam after doing extensive listening tests and taking more than just a few measurements using a few different types of audio equipment. They likely found materials already being made for other purposes (as this is FAR cheaper than a making a proprietary material) and are just using various densities of it to construct their various products. I think Auralex would have a problem selling tennis ball halves for $50. :lol:
This stuff isn't really rocket science, which is why you're finding that people have many different methods that seem to work in one way or another. Don't over think it. You can dampen vibration basically 3 ways - adding mass / weight, adding structure, or applying materials that absorb / diffuse vibrational patterns.
Never tried this myself, but tennis ball halves must sort of add structure and also absorb / diffuse vibrations.
Auralex has found a niche making good quality, pre-constructed units. This doesn't mean their product is "the best" or only way to do things, but they've taken the guess work and construction out of the equation for people like me and others. :thumb:

cloudbaseracer

Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #13 on: 5 Nov 2013, 04:18 pm »
It may be some kind of "special" foam, but it can't be all that special. I honestly doubt they formulated the foam after doing extensive listening tests and measurements. They likely found materials already being made for other purposes and are just using various densities of it to construct their various products. I think Auralex would have a problem selling tennis ball halves for $50. :lol:
This stuff isn't really rocket science, which is why you're finding that people have many different methods that seem to work in one way or another. Don't over think it. You can dampen vibration basically 3 ways - adding mass / weight, adding structure, or applying materials that absorb / diffuse vibrational patterns.
Never tried this myself, but tennis ball halves must sort of add structure and also absorb / diffuse vibrations.

This would be "full" tennis balls! No half way or anything like that.   :lol:

I do wonder if there is anything special with what they have devised. I want to believe that full tennis balls will work but you know how our audiophile minds work and we will always be concerned about whether there is a better way. Whether the skimp is really as good as the commercial bought product. 

This guy http://forum.cakewalk.com/My-Neighbour-Friendly-vdrums-platform-m1434752.aspx?tree=true went pretty elaborate with a drum platform.

Cheers,
James

rajacat

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Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #14 on: 5 Nov 2013, 05:08 pm »
It may be some kind of "special" foam, but it can't be all that special. I honestly doubt they formulated the foam after doing extensive listening tests and taking more than just a few measurements using a few different types of audio equipment. They likely found materials already being made for other purposes (as this is FAR cheaper than a making a proprietary material) and are just using various densities of it to construct their various products. I think Auralex would have a problem selling tennis ball halves for $50. :lol:
This stuff isn't really rocket science, which is why you're finding that people have many different methods that seem to work in one way or another. Don't over think it. You can dampen vibration basically 3 ways - adding mass / weight, adding structure, or applying materials that absorb / diffuse vibrational patterns.
Never tried this myself, but tennis ball halves must sort of add structure and also absorb / diffuse vibrations.
Auralex has found a niche making good quality, pre-constructed units. This doesn't mean their product is "the best" or only way to do things, but they've taken the guess work and construction out of the equation for people like me and others. :thumb:

+1
A case in point is that somebody was selling these pads for a sizable profit on Audiogon a few years ago. A short internet search would've brought up alternative, non audiophile sites that had the same device for $1.50/ea. http://www.supersoundproofingsales.com/SSP-Vibration-Isolation-Pads-7_8thick-2x2-w_Cork-Each/productinfo/09-00002-2EACH/


Mapleshade is still selling a set of eight for $40. :lol: Of course, they say "Isoblocks were specifically designed and optimized (through extensive listening tests) to be the best possible footer for supporting our air-dried maple platforms" :roll:
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ISOBLOCK2-ST

rockadanny

Re: Material To Isolate/Decouple Subs
« Reply #15 on: 5 Nov 2013, 09:48 pm »
I have had good results since I set my two subs on these Starsound Audio Points to drain the vibrations generated from within and from external sources.
You may wish to review their philosophy for an alternate approach.
(The washers are used in case any corners are not level. They also have floor coupler discs if on hardwood.)
(And don't forget, subs are speakers too. They need to be treated as such. What are your main speakers sitting on (rhetorical)?)

http://www.audiopoints.com/audioPoints.php


(Tube amp not sitting on sub. On obscured table behind.)