[oz_audio_todd]

Would this work (and im not going to try to draw it, I just hope my description will suffice)?:

Tower speaker 4 x 165X, 4 x new 3", 1 x the T26SG tweeter. Working fronm the bottom up, 4 x 165X's in a line (like the OB7 base section), then 2 of the new 3"s side by side, then the tweeter, then the other 2 x 3"s (also side by side) on top of that.
MY thoughts, should be fairly efficient, should only be 9 or inches wide, should have a heap of power handling, wouldnt be very tall (certainly not 2metres tall), would be cheaper than the previously pondered 21 driver speaker, should be good down to may be 50Hz (?)(better if the bass drivers were ported!), with the acoustic centres of the mids all closer than a wavelength at X-over, they should be pretty good off axis (better than all the other designs running the 130 series drivers(?)), the design would easily convert to a centre channel by laying down the box and moving 2 drivers to the other side of the tweeter and mids and may be the design could be built with floor standing with two ported woofers below and two ported woofers above the mid section (and yes, I am aware that might kind of remind ppl of a certain high-end design of (Danish may be) speakers).

Im sure its not this simple, but it sounds good in my head anyway   

[JakeJ]

Well, I'm in for a pair, once you make them available.  Hopefully you'll announce that in this thread or start a new one.  I will be watching, do you have a timeline as to when you may be able to offer the kit?  Just a ballpark idea would be good.

[dlparker]

I am working on the desk top design right now. As soon as I have it complete I am sending the design over to Ben. Ben has nice tools:

Like I always say - it's better to have a tool than be one..

[dknywinnie]

I'd like to order a pair as well. Count me in.

[jeffh]

WOW, would I like to have access to a CNC machine like that!

[Vedder323]

[Danny Richie]

Would this work (and im not going to try to draw it, I just hope my description will suffice)?:

Tower speaker 4 x 165X, 4 x new 3", 1 x the T26SG tweeter. Working fronm the bottom up, 4 x 165X's in a line (like the OB7 base section), then 2 of the new 3"s side by side, then the tweeter, then the other 2 x 3"s (also side by side) on top of that.
MY thoughts, should be fairly efficient, should only be 9 or inches wide, should have a heap of power handling, wouldnt be very tall (certainly not 2metres tall), would be cheaper than the previously pondered 21 driver speaker, should be good down to may be 50Hz (?)(better if the bass drivers were ported!), with the acoustic centres of the mids all closer than a wavelength at X-over, they should be pretty good off axis (better than all the other designs running the 130 series drivers(?)), the design would easily convert to a centre channel by laying down the box and moving 2 drivers to the other side of the tweeter and mids and may be the design could be built with floor standing with two ported woofers below and two ported woofers above the mid section (and yes, I am aware that might kind of remind ppl of a certain high-end design of (Danish may be) speakers).

Im sure its not this simple, but it sounds good in my head anyway   

I like it that you guys are thinking.

That would be a really large air space box.

The advantage that a small driver like this can give you is a small baffle and a very minimal amount of surface reflections. This allows the small speaker to sound really transparent and image like crazy. Going to a 9" wide baffle pretty well takes that away. Might as well drop the small drivers and just use the 6.5" woofers to the tweeter.

[Danny Richie]

Well, I'm in for a pair, once you make them available.  Hopefully you'll announce that in this thread or start a new one.  I will be watching, do you have a timeline as to when you may be able to offer the kit?  Just a ballpark idea would be good.

I am hoping for an early to mid January arrival.

[Peter J]

I'm definitely interested… have been thinking about this since Peter started an earlier thread on desktop speaker design.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103789.0

Danny, would this make a good replacement for the NLA Tang-Band used it the above design? If it looks like a good possibility to you,  give me some dimensions, I'll build a test box(s) and send  your way. One of my original intentions was to make this a jumping off spot for aspiring builders, but that went out the window with the non-availability of driver.

Thanks, Peter

[Danny Richie]

Danny, would this make a good replacement for the NLA Tang-Band used it the above design? If it looks like a good possibility to you,  give me some dimensions, I'll build a test box(s) and send  your way. One of my original intentions was to make this a jumping off spot for aspiring builders, but that went out the window with the non-availability of driver.

Thanks, Peter

It will be a good alternative with better sound quality across the board, but it won't be a drop in replacement into the design that you came up with.

Ben will send me a flat pack to test. I want to make sure it is ideal for the job first. I need to test some small No Rez pieces down the sides too. I need to test some of these pre-made ports too. I want this to be real easy.

[bonsai]

I didn't mean to distract this thread.  these speakers and the project seemed similar to the speakers I built and I'd thought I'd chime in on how surprised was with the full dynamic sound I'm hearing.  This project will produce some nice smaller sized speakers that will sound killer I'm sure. 

I built a box that is a bit over 0.09 cubic feet.  The face and rear are built with 3/4" marine grade okoume I had from another speaker build.  the walls, top and bottom are 1/2" baltic birch.

[Peter J]

It will be a good alternative with better sound quality across the board, but it won't be a drop in replacement into the design that you came up with.

Ben will send me a flat pack to test. I want to make sure it is ideal for the job first. I need to test some small No Rez pieces down the sides too. I need to test some of these pre-made ports too. I want this to be real easy.

I don't know that I could take credit for the design, since it morphed considerably based on your advice and measurement...more a joint effort, methinks.

Anyway, I'm happy to assist in any way I can, and will certainly be doing something with these little guys. Looks like fun!

[oz_audio_todd]

The advantage that a small driver like this can give you is a small baffle and a very minimal amount of surface reflections. This allows the small speaker to sound really transparent and image like crazy. Going to a 9" wide baffle pretty well takes that away. Might as well drop the small drivers and just use the 6.5" woofers to the tweeter.

Oooow, that sounds like fun too!    Would that give you pretty good sensitivity? Wait, wouldn't that put your acoustic centres about 3 feet apart at crossover??

So would the 9 driver thing work if you had a separate 'sat' box (only 4 or so inches wide) with the mids and tweeters screwed to the top of the bass section? (not sure how it could be built to work as a centre channel though??)

[Bob in St. Louis]

I'm in for two, please.
Let me know when you're ready to receive my money. 

Bob

[JLM]

This thread demonstrates a typical danger in extended range drivers (won't get into arguments over definitions of full range).  The risk is what we call 'scope creep' in construction.  The basic concept here is classic: a single driver intended to run without an 'evil' crossover to provide an ideally coherent sound (and to also take advantage of, in effect, being an active design).  Add baffle step compensation, decide on cabinet design, and then STOP.  The exception might be a bipole design with one driver front and back.

The single driver speaker challenge has always been to take what the concept gives and live with the limitations (lack of bass/extreme highs/dynamics/ultimate spls/whatever else), most of which can be compensated for with a separate powered subwoofer (or subwoofers that according to Floyd Toole is the only way to smooth out low frequency response across the room).  If you want/need to go past those limitations look elsewhere to a 2-way, 3-way, whatever design.

So you've found a new wonder toy.  It's a floor cleaner, it's a desert topping, it's an old Saturday Night Live skit.  Pushing the concept is silly.  For a few bucks it seems like good fun, within the original single driver speaker concept.  It's just too tempting to mess with something so simple, isn't it?  Welcome to the world of single driver designs.

[Guy 13]

Hi JLM and all Audio Circle members.
I agree with you 200%.
Like my avatar says:
Audio should be simple.

Guy 13

[srb]

Danny,

Just rename the topic to "High quality desk top speaker? New 3" drivers...".  Then it can be used as a full range driver by itself or in an array, as a small midbass driver in a 2-way satellite or as a midrange driver in a 3-way, no silly criticism needed.

It can be used for what it is - a small high quality reasonably priced 3" loudspeaker driver suitable for multiple designs and applications, just as the Tang Band and CSS WR/FR125 have been successfully used in many different designs.

Steve

[dlparker]

This thread demonstrates a typical danger in extended range drivers (won't get into arguments over definitions of full range).  The risk is what we call 'scope creep' in construction.  The basic concept here is classic: a single driver intended to run without an 'evil' crossover to provide an ideally coherent sound (and to also take advantage of, in effect, being an active design).  Add baffle step compensation, decide on cabinet design, and then STOP.  The exception might be a bipole design with one driver front and back.

The single driver speaker challenge has always been to take what the concept gives and live with the limitations (lack of bass/extreme highs/dynamics/ultimate spls/whatever else), most of which can be compensated for with a separate powered subwoofer (or subwoofers that according to Floyd Toole is the only way to smooth out low frequency response across the room).  If you want/need to go past those limitations look elsewhere to a 2-way, 3-way, whatever design.

So you've found a new wonder toy.  It's a floor cleaner, it's a desert topping, it's an old Saturday Night Live skit.  Pushing the concept is silly.  For a few bucks it seems like good fun, within the original single driver speaker concept.  It's just too tempting to mess with something so simple, isn't it?  Welcome to the world of single driver designs.

Excellent points. I intend to start with the basic design, and then the scope creep will be automatic and I'm sure I'll enjoy (mostly) the entire process.

Speaking only for myself, I see at least 3 projects emerging from this in the next 6-8 months.

[dlparker]

Danny,

Just rename the topic to "High quality desk top speaker? New 3" drivers...".  Then it can be used as a full range driver by itself or in an array, as a small midbass driver in a 2-way satellite or as a midrange driver in a 3-way, no silly criticism needed.

It can be used for what it is - a small high quality reasonably priced 3" loudspeaker driver suitable for multiple designs and applications, just as the Tang Band and CSS WR/FR125 have been successfully used in many different designs.

Steve

I didn't consider the response to be 'silly' at all. Just a caution with which I fully agree.

I'm still chompin' at the bit waiting to get started.

[Bob in St. Louis]

I'm still chompin' at the bit waiting to get started.

Yes.