[dBe]

Not to take away from the as yet unheard Plasmatron, but Dave, I thought your offerings made things sound more gooder

Thanks, Jason.  I've not had many people that disagree (3) and I do appreciate the kudos.

Dave

[Folsom]

Vacuum tubes change our perception of types of sound. They can do it in power and signal pathes; hence hybrid amplifiers etc.

Source impedence is a referance to AC source, not music source. AC souce can include anything in your house depending on wiring. Dedicated lines helps reduce source noise. But also you can reduce noise between devices in your stereo if source impedence appears lower to the devices; which this device seems to do.

[Elizabeth]

What i went to search for was PRICE.
Small is $4,000
big is $6,000.
that is a LOT of money for a toy. (with claims it is not a powerline conditioner.. And if all it does is stop voltage sag fro NOT amplifiers.. Then it is a fancy toy)
A cute fancy toy. but still the price is a killer.
My Furman REF20i I got for $1,500 has a voltage stiffening cap in it. And it can also be used for amps.

[Folsom]

I've always had good experiences with VH audio.

I doubt the price is unwarrented by any means. The value however varies. My conditioners remove any fatique I can detect, but while I consider that the most important thing others don't care so the value to them is different.

I imagine this device lowers fatique that tends to hold digital back. Which to me is the difference between listening and not. But does it best other products in varying price ranges? Dunno..

He probably doesn't call it a conditioner since it does not actively or passively attenuate noise, itself.

[ketcham]

I just ordered the 6A version and was surprised to see the prices are still:

3A/330W 2 receptacle $2000
3A/330W 4 receptacle $2200
6A/660W 2 receptacle $3000
6A/660W 2 receptacle $3200

I am guessing good until the end of the year.

-j

[ketcham]

A correction...

3A/330W 2 receptacle $2000
3A/330W 4 receptacle $2200
6A/660W 2 receptacle $3000
6A/660W 4 receptacle $3200

I am guessing good until the end of the year.

[jtwrace]

Please let us know how it works for you.  Also don't forget to tell us what you will use it for.   

[Folsom]

Maybe it's better than conditioning; would love to know.

[dBe]

Maybe it's than conditioning; would love to know.

Good grief, man..."Maybe it's__________than conditioning; would love to know."

What is the other word???  ;  would love to know.   

I don't know how many time I type it, send it, read it and realize I left out the subject or verb.  I don't know what it is - my brain thought it... but my fingers:  NO!

Seriously, I am very curious to see and hear one in action.  Since I didn't get to go to RMAF I missed it.  Drat!

Dave

[Folsom]

My brain works on a quantum level, so sometimes I have to go back and fill in thoughts for you normal humans; once they are done simultaneously working on something else briefly in the future.

[Occam]

It's altering the noise on the incoming power to something that doesn't sound as bad when it creates digital distortion. Our ears are sensitive to the type of distortion more so than typical levels found in audiophile gear.

Are you saying it doesn't work on non-digital devices?

Also lowering source impedence will increase some equipments normal noise rejection.

How is that possible?

[Folsom]

Occam they claim it benefits digital. It would seem that the idea is akin to having a tube power supply. As if everything following it will be tainted by tubeness.

As far as noise, if I get the jist, the tubes create a bit of negative resistance, so you'll have less in circulation of the equipment (particularly when source impedence gets screwy from whatever).

But if you got some other ideas on the operation let us know!

[rascal]

Saw this guy at RMAF today.  Looks really cool and thought I'd pass it along.


http://www.vhaudio.com/plasmatron.html


The Plasmatron provides a more linear voltage output by adding negative resistance to the power line source impedance. But that’s ‘EE-speak’... What that really means is: the voltage supplied by the Plasmatron won’t drop. In fact, it can actually go up, when the load is increased. Need more. Get more.

Did you see their measurements? I did not find any. 

I think your "measurement-speak" disappeared here 

[jtwrace]

Did you see their measurements? I did not find any. 

If you can find them or get them, post them.

[dBe]

My brain works on a quantum level, so sometimes I have to go back and fill in thoughts for you normal humans; once they are done simultaneously working on something else briefly in the future.

Ooooohhhhhhh... a timewarper!  I knew I liked you.
 
Dave

[rollo]

  Look at it this way. An engineered product is offered for sale.  If the price is to much do not try it. If the price is affordable to you give it a go. No matter how well designed as a product the true test is not "opinion" but actual use in a familiar system YOURS.
   For years every power conditioner [ from Audience to Nordst ] tried no matter how good they were designed did not make it for me. Then came the Ubers. At first the price was holding me back. Then I heard a demo. Tried one in my system. The rest history.
   The proof is in the pudding. If you try it and are not pleased with results, fine. Opinions of actual use is what we need to read about.


charles

[*Scotty*]

That just his way of saying he is not all here all of the time 
 If it stores electrical energy to be released into the load down stream when there would ordinarily be a voltage drop due to a short term demand by the load then it works in a similar way to a slave inductor.
 A slave inductor sits across the hot and neutral lines between the load and and the wall outlet. When there would ordinarily be a voltage drop due to current demand by the load, the energy stored in the magnetic field in the inductor is released as the magnetic field collapses across the core of the inductor. A slave inductor can store only a limited amount of energy that is available for meeting very short duration demands for current. If the demand for current lasts long enough there will be a voltage drop on the line as the slave inductor can only store a limited amount of energy in the magnetic field in the core.
 The Plasmatron maybe a more effective form of energy storage than an inductor but I am reasonably certain that long term, it still can't put out more energy than goes into it. The first and second laws of thermodynamics have something say about this sort of behavior.
Scotty

[rollo]

That just his way of saying he is not all here all of the time 
 If it stores electrical energy to be released into the load down stream when there would ordinarily be a voltage drop due to a short term demand by the load then it works in a similar way to a slave inductor.
 A slave inductor sits across the hot and neutral lines between the load and and the wall outlet. When there would ordinarily be a voltage drop due to current demand by the load the energy stored in the magnetic field in the inductor is released as the magnetic field collapses across the core of the inductor. A slave inductor can store only a limited amount of energy that is available for meeting very short duration demands for current. If the demand for current lasts long enough there will be a voltage drop on the line as the slave inductor can only store a limited amount of energy in the magnetic field in the core.
 The Plasmatron maybe a more effective form of energy storage than an inductor but I am reasonably certain that long term, it still can't put out more energy than goes into it. The first and second laws of thermodynamics have something say about this sort of behavior.
Scotty

  The professor strikes again.


charles

[Occam]

...
Also lowering source impedence will increase some equipments normal noise rejection.

Me - 'How is that possible?'

As far as noise, if I get the jist, the tubes create a bit of negative resistance, so you'll have less in circulation of the equipment (particularly when source impedence gets screwy from whatever).

But if you got some other ideas on the operation let us know!

No apparently, you don't get the jist, leastwise not at the level that one would minimally expect from someone who has the knowledge of a Circuits 101 course at the local community college, or its equivalent.

Actually, lowering source impedance will decrease most equipment's normal noise rejection.
On its most trivial level, the first and easiest way to attenuate normal node noise on an AC line is to put an X cap across hot an neutral. The cap's efficacy is increased with a higher source impedance. This is simply the result of Kirchoff's Law, you've got a  frequency dependent voltage divider. This is why folks put resistors between ps capacitors in hollow state preamps and source components. Its not efficient power consumption wise, but is sure does work.
And if you want the filtering of normal mode noise to be even more effective and efficient, one uses a series inductor that increases source impedance at high frequencies, that with the capacitor makes a more effective 2 pole normal mode lowpass filter.
FWIW

[Folsom]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I'll just say I think you're overlooking the internal resistance of some components (even if it's approximately 0 in some cases, it isn't negative). Could it interfere with some noise rejection? Yes, could it supersede that as well? Maybe. I don't have one to play with. Also I said some equipment.

You're thinking about keeping noise out of the equipment, what about getting it out?

But this should be thought about for sure: just keeping voltage constant or higher isn't any kind of secret weapon for good sound, in fact if anything I assume it's anecdotal to what this device actually happens to do that is so beneficial.