Open and revealing - I/C's that transfer what the source produces !

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Sonny

Thanks for the clarification brj, I don't think I did any advertising or talked about comparison to the other cable makersw, but I will remember the rules in the future.

RDavidson

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Well no, that's not correct.  Bill Whitlock writes:

“Good” vs “Bad” Balanced Shield Connections
• Commercial cables have capacitances from each signal conductor to
shield are typically mismatched by 4% to 6%
• It’s because the two wires have different colors … honest!
*******************************************************
• Common-mode output impedances of drivers can also have 5% mismatch
Wires of different colors must be made on different machines – the machines that
extrude the liquid insulation onto the wire as it is pulled through a die. Die diameter
has a tolerance on the order of 0.001”, according to Belden. Therefore, two wires of
different color but otherwise identical, can have insulation thickness differences.
Calculations of capacitance, using the dielectric constant of the PVC insulation,
generally confirm capacitance differences (to the shield) in the vicinity of 5%.
Bill Whitlock, 9/4/2012 Overview of Audio System Grounding & Interfacing page88

You're pretty much entirely missing what I'm saying. I'm not arguing that the construction of the cables (the individual conductors and insulators) from machines isn't best. I'm arguing that the finished product (from the big supplier ie Belden or Canare or whoever has the big machines) isn't necessarily the best. Finished product = terminated cables (or bulk product, ready for termination). Look at Kimber for example. While they're not a small manufacturer, I think they are the best / most well-known example of what I'm saying. They are taking machine made conductors (the individual cables : conductor and insulator) and building the finished product (cable geometry and termination) on their own specialized equipment, if not partially by hand. So, when talking about finished product, I don't believe the supplier (the guy with the big machines) makes the best one can get.

Speedskater

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Mr. Davidson, that's not what you wrote in replay #149.

Once again:

It takes big expensive machines to make good (bulk) balanced interconnect (and microphone) cables.

A balanced interconnect is not about individual conductors, it's a total manufactured (bulk) cable.

Connectors and correct terminations are always open to discussion.

Speedskater

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  • Kevin
This thread is wandering a bit far afield.  Context, comparisons and background material are fine, but let's still try to keep focused on reviewing the product at hand.  Thank you.
Sonny, responding to direct questions from users is fine as long as the focus is on providing information on your product, such as listing the tech specs per foot, for example.  It's when vendors start making subjective statements relative to competing products or talking sales/pricing that things get a bit sticky.
Not everyone uses amps with "modern low impedance interconnect output stages".  Vintage gear is popular with many people, for example.  In short, there are amps in active use that may still have stability challenges when facing sufficiently capacitive loads.
(Plenty of people reading these threads could design an amp from the ground up, but others may not have the background necessary to appreciate the limits of a generalization.)
You are commingling amplifiers with pre-amps. As amplifier outputs are not attached to balanced interconnect cables. There are very few vintage tube pre-amps around with balanced outputs. But vintage pro tube equipment had no problems with with long high total capacitance cables.  But in any case most audiophile interconnect cables are very short (under 10 meters) so total capacitance won't be a problem.

RDavidson

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Mr. Davidson, that's not what you wrote in replay #149.

Once again:

It takes big expensive machines to make good (bulk) balanced interconnect (and microphone) cables.

A balanced interconnect is not about individual conductors, it's a total manufactured (bulk) cable.

Connectors and correct terminations are always open to discussion.

We can agree to disagree. If you misinterpreted what I was trying to say or if I wasn't 100% clear, that's fine, though I CLEARLY stated "With that said, there are some folks building small batches of cables that use VERY well made, super high quality, tight tolerance, individual conductors produced by machines in their products." Even Kimber Kable is a tiny fish compared to the amount of bulk cable produced by the big machine guys.

You are incorrect. Balanced cables have 3 individual conductors (+, -, and ground). One can make a balanced cable using 3 (machine made or not) individual cables. Balanced cables DO NOT have to come from a machine with a preconfigured geometry. One can buy the bulk individual cables (ie single insulated conductors) and build whatever they want. One can make balanced cables from bulk hookup wire wire if they want to......but, it is easier to use the stuff premade by a machine. Is this premade / preconfigured (bulk) cable the best? I say no ; Not at all, irrespective of termination or connector quality.

Speedskater

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  • Kevin
Well once again we disagree.

First:
The three conductors in a balanced cable are (+,-, and shield) there is no 'ground' conductor in a balanced cable.

Second:
A cable made that way will have poor SCIN:

"Shield-Current-Induced Noise - Part 1"
 Current flowing on the shield of balanced audio cables will be converted to differential mode voltage on the signal pair by imperfections in cable construction.
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/Shield_Current_Induced_Noise.pdf

RDavidson

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Not a disagreement here, so much as me using the incorrect terminology.....though you clearly understood what I meant.
Yes, you're correct : +,-, and shield

Regardless, people can build balanced IC's, which you argued only machines can. We can continue to disagree on this, but the proof is in the fact that people (even some here on AC) are building balanced cables.

borism

We can continue to disagree on this, but the proof is in the fact that people (even some here on AC) are building balanced cables.

And to bring the topic back to Sonny, he builds a very nice balanced cable or to be more correct, in my case a SE to balanced cable. :D

GentleBender

I've been too tied up to do any critical listening yet, but hope to get some in tomorrow after work. I have used them for an entire week now to break them in a bit and plan on doing some more tonight. Sonny's RCA interconnects will be compared to my Blue Jean Cables LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables.

Johnny2Bad

I finally got around to making some interconnects using the magnet wire.  I couldn't easily find 20 awg, so I picked up this magnet wire package that Radio Shack sells for $4.99, which has a spool of 22 awg.  I made them today, twisting 2 - 22 awg together for each leg of the signal and then twisted each group of 2 - 22's together per the recipe for 20 awg.  I ran the wire in opposing directions when terminating it.  I connected to some old locking rca's I had laying around, so there was solder already on the positive connection, though I tried to use a new area of the rca for the ground.  Still....crappy connections on rca's that ain't nothing special.  I did use silver solder...but the connections are crappy, nontheless.

My system consists of a Musical Fidelity A3.5 integrated, A3.5 CD player (both of which are isolated fairly well on 5 different layers of vibration absorbing stuff), JMLab Eclipse 926 speakers, ERA Sub 10.  Cables are a Black Sand Violet ZII (yes II :-)...reviewing coming soon after it's fully broken in) on the CD player, Zu Audio Bok on the intergrated and Audioquest power cable on the sub.  Speaker wire is 6 awg on the low feed of the JM's and Zu Wax on the mids/highs (the system's weakest link).  The comparison interconnects are Zu Varials (and a set of Audioquest Sky's briefly compared).  The room is well treated and the system is pretty resolving.

Currently they have about an hour on them, and I did reverse direction to see if I heard a difference...just a tad.  You might ask why I would write a review after only one hour of break in time...I'd be surprised if they actually sounded worse after extended use, though I guess they could get too bright or something.  If so, I'll update later.

Thanks Sonny...these things (at least with the wire and construction I used) are "sumpin, sumpin".  Compared to the Varials, which bettered the AQ Sky's easily, they might even be better.  Detailed, dynamic (a Varial strength), layered and well focused.  Surprising for any interconnect with so little time on it.  Tonal balance seems at this point to be right on.  Bass is strong and well defined.  The highs have body and not just "tizz tizz".  Overall presentation is pretty damn smooth at higher volumes.

Now, I've got to decide on which highend rca's I need to get to re-terminate these cables.  Even if I spend alot of money, the total cost will be insanely low for the resolution offered.  I'm thinking of leaving them "naked", so anyone interested can see how little "technology" there is in the construction of these interconnects.




ps (listening experience is 30+ years in the audio biz)

reflex

When you double same size AWG the resultant AWG equivalent is -3, or in your example 2x 22 AWG = 19 AWG

Rich48

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I recently purchased a set of Tuan's cooper reveal IC's.  I bought them to replace a set of Audioquest King Cobra IC's. 

The system consists of a Bluesound Vault music server connected to a Schitt Bifrost Multibit Dac,
via an Audioquest Toslink cable. Tuan's IC's connect the Dac to a Decware SE84UFO2 amp.  My speakers are DIY OB's connected via Audioquest Type 4 cable.

Tuan's IC's have given me a huge improvment in the sound of my system.  The soundstage is deeper and wider.  The base is tighter and more musical.  I'm hearing much more detail.   Piano sounds much more realistic.  t's like a vail was lifted off the speakers.  IMHO these IC's are a great bargin. 

Sonny

I recently purchased a set of Tuan's cooper reveal IC's.  I bought them to replace a set of Audioquest King Cobra IC's. 

The system consists of a Bluesound Vault music server connected to a Schitt Bifrost Multibit Dac,
via an Audioquest Toslink cable. Tuan's IC's connect the Dac to a Decware SE84UFO2 amp.  My speakers are DIY OB's connected via Audioquest Type 4 cable.

Tuan's IC's have given me a huge improvment in the sound of my system.  The soundstage is deeper and wider.  The base is tighter and more musical.  I'm hearing much more detail.   Piano sounds much more realistic.  t's like a vail was lifted off the speakers.  IMHO these IC's are a great bargin.

Thanks Rich for the kind words!  I am glad the cables are working out for you!

brs2c

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Sonny,

Are you still making cables?

jmc207

Sonny, I'm curious as well.

Thx, John

bacobits1

There are 3 pairs for sale in the trading post.

Sonny

Hi John and Brsc2,

Sorry for the late response.  Yes i do still make them and of course can always send you a pair to try.

PM Me and we can go from there!

Thank you!
Tuan