[ooheadsoo]

Man, they should write this kind of stuff for every piece of gear out there to boost our egos and inflate our satisfaction with our gear!  Boy do I feel good after reading Richard's write ups!  I suppose I know BAD sound when I hear it and the JVC certainly doesn't sound bad.  I think a lot of what I'm hearing now may be boiling down to the recording.  I'm absolutely adoring Dvorak Symph. no.9 London Symphony Orchestra (Decca/London) on my system right now but Joshua Bell playing the Sibelius with the LA Phil  on sonyclassical falls flat on its face as far as the orchestra goes.

[ooheadsoo]

Any comments on synergy with mid range dacs like the ack dack, SN's dacs, or, say, a benchmark dac1?

[Dmason]

Richard and I both are using Nixon DACs, I the kit with all the trimmings,  and I think Richard is using the tube model with a Cal Audio Labs as a spinner.

Music lives in the midrange, and the synergy here is stunning. I mean really high calorie, vivid, holographic,   stunning .   <-----Like that.

Lately I have had the Sony DVP7700, Arcam FMJ CD23, Cambridge Audio 640C through the JVC and NOTHING to me sounds anywhere near as good as the Nixon, which I am using in conjunction with a pro audio card with SPDIF. This design is based on that which regularly lands on the very top of the audiophool heap over at Stereophool mag. Don't let the pricing fool you into thinking these are mid-fi type ventures, they are not. If you want the last bit of digitally rendered sparkle and musical vivisection, get a good upsampler. I would head straight for a Jolida, or maybe one of these ShengYa's which are supposed to be a good value.

If you want just the facts, -just the music,- get an Ack Dack or a Nixon. I have also heard the Ack in my system, and love it. Chris Own is a superb individual, as is Scott Nixon. Either way you cannot lose and these nonfiltered, non upsampled DAC's are going to be amazing with the JVC, and are as much of a killer value as the JVC is.

[ooheadsoo]

I wish I could hear a bunch of these dacs together and compare.  The nonoversampled dacs sound like they'd be great, but I'm really hesitating on whether or not I'd lose detail.  I've found that an overly warm sound is also not for me.  It sounds nice in the short term but I always miss that detail in the long run.  I heard a nice vinyl setup a month or two ago and it blew my mind.  It was a solo cello bach partita type thing.  The texture on that cello was simply stunning.  I've never heard anything like it before.  Right now with my proaudio soundcard going into the jvc, I'm only hearing an approximation of that sound on the low strings when the player really puts some pressure on the bow, but I'm not hearing it past the G string for sure.  Well, the flip side is that I listen to my brother play cello all the time from a variety of distances and I'm not quite sure real cellos have THAT much texture either  Is this what people mean when they say "analog?"  That absolutely stunning fluid texture?

I was thinking about the mensa dio and the benchmark dac1 too because I read that they have tons of detail.  I think it's really going to be a balance between auditioning a really expensive (for me) piece down the road, or just taking a chance on a more affordable dac in a few months.  I just read the big 4 dac shootout between the MF, SN, mensa, and BC2 and just can't really make heads or tails out of it  

Is there any loss of detail with the Nixon dacs?  One thing I read about the nonOS dacs was that bass speed was tube-like, meaning compromised in terms of speed and transient response, I guess.  Any thoughts on this particular issue?

[Dmason]

I have read that, and once again the matter is subjective, comes down to synergy, especially with speakers, and really the rest is all chalk and cheese. People can intellectualize all they want, you can take it for what it's worth, but it still comes down to YOUR ears. Sounds to me like you are one of the ones who knows what real instruments and music sound like. All I can tell is so do I and that is what I like about the non OS non Filter DAC's. Maybe it is my tinnitus, but even with speakers some have written off as "slow" or "veiled" I don't hear any loss of detail, just the real thing living in my living room, but MY ears are not your ears. The variables from the vibrating air molecules to your auditory perception in YOUR brain are so involved that I wouldn't put much, if ANY currency into what you are reading about that sort of stuff.

Even if the  DAC I use has a slowed bass response, the amp I use has the rise time of lightning, and exerts near dictatorial control over speakers, so maybe it balances out.

Just start ordering and listening if it means that much to you. Dack has a great return policy Nixon doesn't. Either way, you win, and the field of contenders is pretty small, my view.

[-Richard-]

Hi Dan,

Actually I am using a very inexpensive
CD spinner right now...the Pioneer DV563A
with the Scott Nixon Tube Dac plus...a
mouthful to be sure...but a little gem
that as you have already said sounds
fantastic with the JVC...the Nixon Dac
and the JVC sing together like lovers
who cannot bear to be apart...

When I was using the Carver ZR1600 and
Albert's little preamp...there were times that
I actually liked the Pioneer by itself...
on certain musical passages it gave
the music a fluid feeling and seemed to
remove a veil that I thought was imparted
by the Nixon Dac...however I found that I
could not sustain listening to the Pioneer
for long...something edgy which was not
immediately discernable overcame my
feelings of pleasure and soon created a
profound anxiety in the music...

Things are quite different with the JVC...
the Pioneer alone, without the Nixon
Dac, is simply not acceptable...with the
Nixon Dac the sound is pure magic...
like 20 thousand dollar high end tube
electronics...

Here are further thoughts about the
Nixon and JVC synergy:

You mentioned holographic sound, Dan...
that is an accurate description...when listening
to certain music...music that is richly textured
for example...what I hear is layer upon layer of
sound that carries with it the very air in which
the music was created...

Even single instruments are giving off their
overtones in shimmering layers that rise
and fall like the sea...

A sort of billowing of sound fields that rise up
and blend with other sounds fields to
create ever continuous multi-dimensional
cascading waves of sound...I have never
experienced that level of  "awareness" before...
it changes ones entire relationship with
the music...the inner detail reaches so far into
the music...it is as if extra microphones that were placed
inside the musical space are suddenly turned on...

Compared with the JVC all other amps I have ever heard
are flat...flat and lacking inner space...with the exception
of certain SET amps...but even these designs could not
reveal what I am hearing...and they tended to veil the
music within a bloom that clung tenaciously to it...

With the JVC, it is as if the very air around instruments
or the voice is being intensely stimulated and at the
same time the emotional threads in the music...
its very intelligence...is being revealed...for the first time...

What a revelation!

Deborah hears all of this as well...many times during the
day she will turn to me and remark how good the music
sounds...she loves the little JVC as much as I do.

Your experience Dan, suggests that this would be true
with any speaker...and since you have tried legions
of speakers during your musical life I have no doubt
that you are right. In my limited experience, this
phenomenon is most easily heard with the Maggie
1.6's which have come alive in a way that I never
dreamed possible...although I was seriously going to
sell them...I am moving to a much smaller space soon...
Deb is cautioning me not to sell them...she loves the
sound of the Maggies with the JVC.


Warm regards to all -Richard-

[TheChairGuy]

Ummm, yeah, what he said    

[ooheadsoo]

Wow, sounds like I need to audition a Scott Nixon dac.  I'm hesitating on the ackdack because of the battery issue.  I tend to leave my audio gear running for 8-16 hours a day.  That wouldn't work with the ack battery.

[gary]

How about you guys post some of these reviews in the critics circle? That way, some of the regulars who might not read this subforum might see them.

Gary

[lonewolfny42]

I wish I could hear a bunch of these dacs together and compare.  

ooheadsoo,

If you would like to hear a Bolder Mensa Dio dac, I can loan you one for a weeks listen. PM me you info. Loanwolf [/list:u]
I placed an order for the JVC last night....lets see what you guy's are hearing...... [/list:u]

[mcgsxr]

ooheadsoo, please borrow the Mensa, I would love to hear about how that sounds with the JVC.

Alternately, I guess the wolf could tell us, once his JVC arrives.

Mark

[lonewolfny42]

ooheadsoo, please borrow the Mensa, I would love to hear about how that sounds with the JVC.

Alternately, I guess the wolf could tell us, once his JVC arrives.

Mark

Hello Mark,

I could make it a 3 week tour.ooheadsoo first, and you would be second after him- travel time in between. Just don't lose it.... [/list:u]Everyone says the JVC takes time to break in.....so better I send the Mensa. My DAC of choice is my EA Turbomod ECD-1. Mensa in 2nd. system.
Let me know.....[/list:u]

[AphileEarlyAdopter]

Gentlemen,
You are all having a 'the grass could be greener on the other side' effect on me. Especially Richard's romantic style of writing. Look at the music he listens to . This is man is eclectic in his tastes !!!

I was extremely happy with my XR50. Now, I am beginning to wonder whether I should spend another $300 for another experiment. Before that if you any of you have a Panny, (I suspect Dan) could you try your favorite DAC on the analog input. It would be nice if it were a XR50 as it  has a more transparent analog input.  If this is not possible, can somebody describe the difference between the analog and digital input's sound ?

I just spent $700 on a power conditioner, I dont want my wife to be comparing me with my little son ('both of you want some toys all the time, except yours is more costly' !!)  

[Dmason]

Both approaches sound good. Different ways of getting there.

I think one's preference over the other boils down to the old left brain/right brain theorem; The TI sound appeals to the cognitive brain, ie: those who wish to extract the detail, in stark relief, --hi fi, so to speak. I use these chips to amplify my keyboards. A high resolution amplifier for high resolution sound engines.

The JVC approach seems to appeal to the emotive listener. Those who want to extract the emotion from the music, the emotive dynamic, HOW the string is bowed, not necessarily the sound of the rosin on the string, etc., although that comes through as well. Contrary to what has been said, cues and individual lines, individual harmonics, all are there to be heard with the JVC, nothing is missing. In fact, it is almost like hall recorded orchestral music now has more microphones on the stage than before, i can hear the chairs move, the wax in the valve pads, it is all there. This is with the Nixon DAC and JVC, both of which have been described as "rolled off" in the highs.

To these ears, when I auditioned both the Kenwood and JVC together I used among other material, some Mark Knopfler, 'Sailing To Philadelphia' I noticed the TI offered an amazing representation of a hollow body guitar through a tube amplifier. With the JVC, I am now hearing a really nice hollow body guitar, I hear the wood, and the crunch of the EL34 tubes in what is clearly in my impression, the sound of a Fender Twin amp, possibly two amps, one distorting more than the other. I heard what Knopfler, (a hugely underrated guitarist,) was trying to do, I heard WHY his lines fit sooo well within the context of the chord progressions, it all made more sense. For me, the JVC connects me to the music better than any amp I have ever heard, or owned... I hope this helps, abit.

[tubeytubeamp]

Dmason,

My JVC is breaking in and the sound is changing for the better. The sound is much more dynamic and the soundstage is deeper and more defined. I have also noticed that music is also much clearer and detailed with Kimber PBJ interconnects than the cardas 300b Microtwin I've tried in between my Arcam 7se and JVC over the past couple of days. When I get around to it I plan on biamping my JMLabs with the four speaker surround mode.

Your review and Richard's are almost identical regarding the use of the Scott Nixon dac. The mark of the JVC's so far seem to be that they are amazing values on their own, but that they also responed to tweaks better than most components out there.

1) I have a Kimber Powercord that I would like to replace the stock power cord with. (Hardwire in of course) Is this a difficult job?

2) If I were single and living at home I would buy the Nixon in a flash, but with a baby on the way my funds are very limited for tweaks right now. Are there any (much)less expensive dacs or jitter devices on the market, new or used that you could recommed?

Thanks
Dennis

[TheChairGuy]

Tubey,

I've never owned an amplification device that was a sensitive to tweeks an add-ons as the JVC.  That's either 'cause the prior stuff wasn't so great, the JVC is that good, or some combination thereof.  I'm leaning towards the JVC being THAT good  

I'm getting it modded by Wayne soon enough to see how good it can be....

[mcgsxr]

You are generous Lonewolf, and I appreciate the offer, but as a new Mensa owner, it is the JVC I am trying to understand!  I would be interested in anyone who has partnered the two, that is why I am pushing poor ooheadsoo!

Thanks though,

Mark

[srayle]

I now have about 100 hours on my F10...it was great out of the box, took another major leap after the 100 mark hour passed. I can tell that after researching tube amps for months and almost pulling the Audiogon Trigger a number of times (yet always holding back) that my search is... over. This circle has been incredibly helpful in making my decision for the JVC...thanks especially to Dmason, chair guy and Richard [the Poet].  

I think I'm not gonna mess with this diamond too much, just get a better power cord. Question is, do I send it to get modded for an IEC plug, or do I attempt to hard-wire something in (not experienced but have a soldering iron, at least)? I s that resasonably easy to do, or can I F* it up?
Will an AC conditioner be worth the money, also? I'm not really tempted to do anything else, because it sounds sooo goood now!

The DAC Question: am running an upsampled Ah Tjoeb with stock tubes and it sounds pretty dam good. Looking forward to the JVC 300+ hour point. I do wonder how it compares to the Nixon tube DAC, after reading the recent posts. Knowing myself, if I'm this close to audio nirvana, I'm gonna have to check it out, after what has been said so far on this forum. Hmmm. I also somehow seemed to have acquired a Benchmark DAC1 a while ago (oops) that has so far been sitting on the sidelines. I hope to give an evaluation of it here soon as things have burned in.

The sound as I'm now experiencing it is reminiscent of the way music can sound in a chemically-induced 'altered state', when it takes on a new dimension in  musical perception and it sounds like so much more than music..3-D, and full and rich and clear and deep and good and alive...not quite to the same degree, but something like that. Those that have been there know of what I speak. I've not experienced this before.

[TheChairGuy]

Welcome former heretic and new convert srayle  

It looks to be  pretty simple solder job for new cord to the board inside on the JVC, but I'm not one to ask as I'm not gonna' do it.  Wayne and Bolder do the IEC (with quality IEC, to boot) for only $85 if you are afraid of electrocuting yourself  

The other potential mods get a little more dicey and an experienced hand is probably needed. AC conditioner (BPT 2 with upgrades) was very beneficial in my case...but everyone's situation is different.  It simply doesn't sound AS good from the wall - I've tried multiple times and come up with the same result.

If you think you like it now, you got 200 more wonderful hours ahead of you.  All of our experiences are running the same pattern now, so I'm sure you'll like what you hear in 10 days or so. Those highs flesh out and the music starts giving you real goosebumps.

Pleased as heck to hear that this topic(s) has been helpful to you...hearing that helps bolster my disbelieving self further.

[-Richard-]

Hi Srayle,

As TheChairguy has aptly stated the little JVC
changes its character after at least 200 hours...

The most dramatic change I hear is the
active participation in the musical presentation
of the air around instruments...and the recording
space itself in which the music was created...

Instrumental colors and timbres are no longer
heard as discreet sounds alongside other discreet
sounds...rather what ones hears is the air itself
infused with the instruments "presence"...its
emotional vibrations...

In this way one is drawn into the music not
by the usual perceptual cues which require
a kind of rapid connecting the notes conceptual
strategy...which I suspect taxes the brain in
a subtle way that robs us of some of the pleasure
that we seek in listening to music in the first place...

Instead, with the little JVC, the music flows over
you...washing your auditory senses with a continuous
fluid "air" the carries the music along in an organic
wholeness that makes you feel...perhaps for the first
time...that your brain need not function under the usual
stresses of a kind of schematic cognition...
 
The result is a deep relaxation...and yet at the same
time something has been keenly awakened as well...

You begin to follow the threads...the intelligence
that is inherent in the music...the music begins to
speak to you...it has intimacy...it touches you...
its infiltrates your usual resistance...you merge
with it....there is no longer any separation...
no longer any me and the music...there is only
the music...and you disappear folded within its
magic...its power to transform ordinary time...
into the eternal...

I would like to make a suggestion. I suggest that
everyone who is discovering the magic of the
JVC wait before moding your amp...wait at least
300 hours for it to burn in...in that way you will
have at least become familiar with the JVC's
potential before you begin major surgery...

You may discover that nothing is necessary
to do to it...just a thought.

Warm regards -Richard-