[ooheadsoo]

Do you know how steep the slopes are?  I hope it's 24 db.

[kfonda]

No I don't and I have not tested it but if I HAD to guess, I would say 24db because it integrates PERFECTLY with my mains and the roll off seems gradual to me as opposed to a sharp drop off.

[ooheadsoo]

Interesting.  Gradual would indicate a 12db roll rather than 24db.  In any case, it sounds very promising that you were able to integrate your sub.  I'm leaning more towards this jvc by the minute!

[kfonda]

Interesting.  Gradual would indicate a 12db roll rather than 24db.  In any case, it sounds very promising that you were able to integrate your sub.  I'm leaning more towards this jvc by the minute!

DOH!!!! I MEANT 12db--NOT 24 db. Thanks for pointing that out for me ooheadsoo

[Rob Babcock]

That would be good news.  Incomplete & incorrect bass management is usually a problem with cheap receivers, but maybe nowadays it's getting better across the board.

[ooheadsoo]

Personally, I wish it were 24db because I don't trust my subs to be as detailed as my bookshelves, but I guess you can't have everything.

[satfrat]

I may as well confess my secret- I do on occasion use PLII for music!       Hey, it's in the privacy of my own home, no children around & only consenting adults!   The stereo purists can pile on if they wish, but if I can consider a $179 receiver, then I can use PL2 for music!

Anyway, the reason I wonder about the bass management is that a couple years ago one of the big HT mags (can't remember which one) had a shootout of HT receivers, and of all the models they reviewed, only the Denon mo ...

                                                                                Thata boy Rob, tell it like it is. It's all about listening preference and quite frankly I do ALL my music listening in Dolby PL2. There's a more realistic soundfield presense over just stereo for my tastes. Such is the path of progresss. Regards, Robin

[Rob Babcock]

With a lot of rock/pop music, if it sounds good it is good.  Most of them were assembled Frankenstein-style in the studio from many tracks, so there really never was a "live" sound to them.  On many of these discs I do think PL2 adds some ambience & depth to the sound.

[RoadTripper]

Does anybody know if the volume you burn in these digital amps at (specifically the JVC ES1SL) makes any difference in how long it takes to complete the burn in?

My JVC is coming today and it would be nice to not have to have its sound competing with the music I normally listen to.

Thanks - my listening report will be out in a few days.

[TheChairGuy]

sooooooooooooooooooooooo?  Outta' the box and first 28 hours

[RoadTripper]

Glad you asked.  I've been running it non-stop since Monday, Aug 2 at about 6:00 pm. And tonight, I switched it over to driving my Omega Grande8Rs (which have about 80 hours on them).

To the credit of the Nohr SE-9, which the JVC is trying to unseat as my bedroom amp, the JVC is NOT besting it yet. However, the JVC, is already the equal of the Nohr in at least one area: it is non-fatiguing. It also seems to handle big music (orchestral) better than the SE-9. The tube amp seems congested where the JVC seems to be creating more space at least in the sense that there is the ability to hear individual lines more easily.

Areas where it is clearly behind right now are in the imaging department.  With the SE-9, the Omegas disappear on many recordings. With the JVC, they haven't yet. The important spatial cues (the kinds of sounds that indicate the music is being played in a room on a stage) that lend realism aren't really present yet. The SE-9 does pretty well in that area.

I have a lot of music to spin up yet, so I will be giving some updates in a few days.  I can't to A/B testing so it will be all from memory.

My overall impression is that this unit is a very good performer. We will have to see what a couple hundred hours of breaking in will do.

[TheChairGuy]

You won't get the 'bloom' that tubes give you, and may be very much wanted to many, but you will wake up one day (real soon) after having it cook overnight and turn the juice on the JVC...and your reaction is likely to be like the rest of us...

You will hear a tone so pleasant and non-fatiguing, a firm solid grip on the whole frequency spectrum, and you wil be bopping to the music. For me, it was like never before. That 'ah-ha' moment happened at 100 hours, I thought it was done at 150 hours, but there is more joy out to 300 hours or so.  Treble smoothness, and extension, was the one I noticed from 101-300 hours.

Digital amps, and this hybrid one in particular, offers up a whole new paradigm of value to the Audiophool.

I hope to hear your enthusiasm is a infectious as my own, as I feel responsible for turning on many folks on to this receiver and I want the results to be consistent with each user.  Even at $179 (or $280 for the F-10), it's your money, after all, and I hate to have wasted it for you.  

[Dmason]

I have a friend expecting an F10 to land any day now, and is equally interested in obtaining as much of the holo-deck imaging thing associated with tubes as he can. He will be using his Space-Tech-Lab mini triode pre amp as  a sort of buffer, so we will see what that will lend to the proceedings. I figure it will add all kinds of sparkle, as my first audition of this JVC architecture was with a well-worn shop demo ES1 in GG, using a Joule Electra Uber-Pre amp and the sound was just hanging in the room.

I believe having tubes somewhere in the chain ALWAYS helps, but no matter what, its all about synergy. With the Vandys, the sound is well free of the speakers, individual lines and cues are easily discerned with complex, full-scale music. Much of the responsibility lies with the recording engineer as well. In that realm, synergy is even more important. Causality is here.

Speaking of the Omegas, I have a pair of Fostex FX200 on order, and ripped up a 25L BR cabinet over the weekend. Nice 3/4" roundover on the front baffle too.   Veneering to follow. I can't wait to see what happens there, getting the x-overs outta the way!

[RoadTripper]

While this won't constitute a full assessment of the amp, now at the 7 day mark and with probably 100 hours on it, the JVC has passed up the Norh SE-9.  But with the following caveats: Not being able to A/B the two amps and granting that my speakers are also breaking in it is hard to be certain that my comparisons are entirely fair.  

This JVC (the RX-ES1SL) has no modifications whatsoever. I don't forsee doing any either, unless those really cheesy spring clip speaker connectors fail.  

About the only area where I think the Norh bests the JVC is in instrumental timbre.  I have a sense that the Norh yields a more faithful representation of the actual tone of the instruments. And even here, I think this statement may only be true in a fairly narrow frequency range, say, about  200 hz. to 1000 hz.

All other areas are either a tie or the JVC comes out on top.  I can give you the following as a means of indicating "treble extension".  I have a HDCD Reference Recordings Dallas Wind Symphony called "Bells for Stokowski". Until the JVC played this recording, I didn't really get why they gave it that title. But the JVC lets me hear all these really great sounds coming from the back of the group which are all high freq. bells, triangles, chimes, xylophones etc. With the Norh I never noticed them before. I am sure you can hear them with the Norh, it's just that they are unremarkable.

A lot has been written about how well cymbals are reproduced with various hardware implementations. The JVC/Norh combo gives me what I believe mimics well what I heard in my many years in orchestras, concert bands, and jazz/rock/stage/club bands.


Surprisingly, the bass is not as great a leap forward with the JVC over the Norh as with the treble. But there is a leap and it is a qualitative leap not a quantitative one. I am sure the 8" driver in the Omega Grande8R is the reason here.

Soundstaging/imaging is now in my mind a function of the recording, not the equipment, since both perform well if the recording has the information.  

I consider the breakin period over. Any thing beyond this point is gravy.

The chairguy seems worried that he may be pushing an amp that really isn't that good as if he doesn't trust his ears.  Well, he can relax. I am very pleased with my purchase.  My JVC/Omega bedroom system sounds so good, I wonder what my poor "reference" living room system is thinking about all this.

[TheChairGuy]

Excellent Seminarian!

Do give it more time...it gets better still during the next 200 hours.  It will give you warm chils one day when you go to listen,  the bass gets a little more grip and treble extension continues extending.

Great to hear it works in your system too...of course we are both (and Dmason) giving it pretty easy loads (both of us have simple 2 way Vandy 1c's).  I'm not sure what Gary/Panda is using for speakers, but he is equally enthused.

Hang tight it gets better....thanks for validating my hearing.  I still can't believe $179 gets you this quality   .  The JVC is very finicky about IC's...nothing sounds bad, per se, but they all matter greatly.

[Dmason]

Yesterday my Fostii arrived, a pair of FX200. Beautifully finished products, made with obvious care, attention to detail, and an obvious love of craft showing from whomever assembled these things. Casting, machining, they are industrial works of art, and I would be just as happy with them sitting around the house as part of the modern decor...They are bigger than I thought somehow, and have been burning in abit mounted to a scrap of 3/4" ply I cut two holes into, in the garage/studio, hooked up to the Kenwood 7100 which I am using for music and computer....I have read that the Fostii take a long time to break in, but I believe that they are giving me an idea of the stark, crossoverless presence this design type offers. My interest went back to my asking about whether the little PowerWave might be a candidate for Louis' Omegas, and we now know that the combo represent specacular synergy...

So now we have ideas coming forth on the JVC with similar systems and impressions. Maybe things are about to get better. Still, I am completely amazed at how apparent SYNERGY as the basic concept to a good jukebox is, when listening to the JVC-Vandersteen combo. That aint goin' anywhere...

[RoadTripper]

This community is the big reason why I have such good quality sound to listen to.  What I really need is someone to hear what I am hearing and say, "Yep, that is truly good sound." or "Sorry, you are on drugs.  Listen to this other system over here and then you would understand." Any experts in San Diego want to check this thing out?

So, yeah, the JVC sounds good to me paired with the Omegas. But I do have a downstairs system that I will be comparing this one to shortly for a more objective report.

But, given that I have a $180 CD player and a $180 amp, and free ICs, it is a good time to be living if you like good music reproduction for peanuts.  (I think I paid $125 for a Marantz receiver in 1980.  I wonder how that thing would sound with these Omegas.) Maybe we are crazy thinking that this $180 amp can compete with the big boys.  Well, I know it can compete with the $400 Norh, which is reputed to be able to compete with $1000 amps.

BTW, since my earlier post of this afternoon, I put on the Getz, Gilberto "Girl from Ipanema" SACD and I can confirm that this amp/speaker combo is definitely on the harsh side.  With my VMPS, I can dial down that treble harshness. With the Omegas, my only hope is further breakin.  Reports are that the 100 hours I have one them are not near enough.

[Dmason]

If it sounds good to you, it IS good. If it moves you, it moves. You dont need anyone else's ears. .....But I have perfect pitch, and we are neighbors..

There are too many variables and parameters just in human hearing for anything to be "flat," "neutral," or "best," for any two people on the planet. There is waaaaaaaaaaay more going on between power cords and your auditory bullae to even attempt objectivity. It seems it ALL comes down to synergy and implementation, and how YOUR ears tell YOUR brain about it all.

Trying to be objective in absolute terms with this subject would be like trying to locate "top dead center" on a kaleidescope.    

[JLM]

Where are you guys finding this receiver for sale?

I can't seem to find it anywhere (but I'm really bad at searching the web).


D Mason, what's your opinion of matching it to my Fostex F200A based single driver mass loaded transmission line speakers (that I'll be picking up next week)?

thanks

[gary]

Last I knew J&R had the RX-F10S for $299 with free shipping. I got mine from globalsupersale.com for $20 less than that, also with free shipping, and it came about two days after I placed the order.

It's a little more expensive than the older model, but it has the latest surround sound technologies and component video switching. Those two easily justified the extra cost for me.

Gary