[SearchOfSub]

I am currently torn between the 3 speakers. Did anyone have the chance to hear all 3? What would you recommend?

Gonna run it with OPPO 93 => Monarchy DIP Upsampler => Nad M51 => Job 225 w/ Audioquest cables.


thanks!

[wisnon]

The Dragons will have the deepest bass. I only heard the MicroOnes and they are awesome.

I dont think you can lose with any of them, but the Dragons will be cheapest with the most slam!

The Ones will shock with the bass to size ratio and the Vapor will be refined.

[SearchOfSub]

What about the sound quality? I prefer a transperent speaker with good vocals and musical speakers that are crystal clear. There are speakers out there that measure incredibly good, but too flat and not musical at all.

Im in a 13 x 13 x 10 room. Apart from the bass, what would yo recommend as far as sound go? What speakers sound the most lively? I can get them all around the same price.

I really like the Soundkaos Wave 40 but they are like $15,000 a pair. yikes!

[Russell Dawkins]

Why are you asking this now? I thought you had already ordered the Tekton Enzos:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119032.msg1251739#msg1251739

[Vapor Audio]

First off, my opinions are just my opinions ... and obviously I'm biased.  But I have to assume that by asking here, you're hoping to hear my opinion. 

The Cirrus had a very simple goal, to be the best 2-way monitor possible.  We use the AudioTech C-Quenze woofer which we think is the best on the planet, the RAAL tweeter which is also the best, and put it all in the best cabinet we know how to build ... and with the best crossover components, and years of voicing.  We thought of everything with that design, and it shows in the result.  In a properly setup room they will completely disappear and give a seamless wall to wall soundstage.  They're incredibly articulate and resolving, but never cross the line to harsh or fatiguing at all - they should you everything in a recording but without any edge.  One of the Cirrus' unique capabilities is, based on your mood, they can either excite you or relax you. 

I've heard the MicroOnes a few times now at shows, on different setups and different rooms.  I don't know what they're selling for now, but at their $2500/pair price they were a good buy.  They do image well and have excellent low level detail retrieval.  In a lot of ways they're a very good speaker.  But they are a bit edgy and cold for my taste, but that could be worked out somewhat with equipment pairing.  Their AMT tweeter just isn't as good as the RAAL, it's good but not RAAL good ... some hash can creep in on more complex material, and at higher volumes.  With the RAAL that just doesn't happen.  And I felt the bass was a bit chuffy and one note, not much tonal density to the bass and makes everything from 40-80hz sound the same basically.  I'd imagine with a high pass filter cutting off below 80hz and a pair of subs, the MicroOnes could make for a great setup.  BTW, the MicroOnes are just a basic MDF box with a laminate stuck on the outside that looks like stacked ply.  The Cirrus is real stacked 13-layer Baltic Birch ply, no MDF anywhere. 

The Seas Pendragon isn't going to be in the same league in terms of detail retrieval, transparency, soundstaging, articulation, etc.  I haven't heard them, but what drivers you use essentially set a hard ceiling for a speakers performance capabilities.  Your job as the designer is to get 100% out of the drivers through cabinet and crossover design.  And those drivers just aren't capable of the same level of performance as the Cirrus (or even MicroOne) drivers.  Add to it very resonant cabinetry and you have a speaker that will probably do good at sounding big, but only average at everything else.  Also Tekton has quickly established a reputation for taking liberties with their specifications, they aren't 95db .... and don't go flat to 30hz, no matter what they say.  That size cabinet (~2.6cu/ft), and those woofers will have an F3 of 44hz, and a pair in parallel with some baffle step compensation will be 92db sensitive at best. 

Like I said, those are just my opinions.  The Tekton approach is not my cup of tea at all, low resolution drivers in a big honky box.  The MicroOnes are better, but honestly are more competition for our Stiff Breeze and not the Cirrus.

[Rocket]

Hi,

These are quite different speakers.  If your going to pony up for the vapors why not consider salk sound HT2TL's. 

Cheers Rod

[SearchOfSub]

Thank you for the reply. I am not looking for a BIG SOUND per say, but a sound  that is non-fatiguing and musical and lively. The speakers I REALLY like are the Soundkaos Wave40's and they use RAAL as well. But its $15,000 as well...I have read a review that the Cirrus are a bit forward and aggresive. Is this true? If it is, do you have any other models in your line-up that are not as upfront and agrresive? I do like the idea of fast speakers, but how do they compare when listening to slow stuff? Like R&B etc...


I just now actually finished listening to the MicroOnes and although they have good tone, I also think they are a bit cold and not "juicy" enough for my taste.


Have you heard of the Shelby&Kroll? How do you think the Cirrus line stack up against the NanoMonitor 1.1's?  Its about the same price range.


Set-up is ExactPower SP15A/EP15A power conditioner & balanced power =>Oppo 93 transport => Monarchy DIP Upsampler => Nad M51 DAC/PRE => Job 225 AMP.

Gonna run it with Audioquest Gibraltar cables & interconnects.



Thanks!


P.S the designer at Shelby & Kroll also said along the same line about the Tektons. He basically said it will sound big but also heavy and wont compare sonically to their speakers. Is intended for $300 seperates.

[Vapor Audio]

Thank you for the reply. I am not looking for a BIG SOUND per say, but a sound  that is non-fatiguing and musical and lively. The speakers I REALLY like are the Soundkaos Wave40's and they use RAAL as well. But its $15,000 as well...I have read a review that the Cirrus are a bit forward and aggresive. Is this true? If it is, do you have any other models in your line-up that are not as upfront and agrresive? I do like the idea of fast speakers, but how do they compare when listening to slow stuff? Like R&B etc...


I just now actually finished listening to the MicroOnes and although they have good tone, I also think they are a bit cold and not "juicy" enough for my taste.


Have you heard of the Shelby&Kroll? How do you think the Cirrus line stack up against the NanoMonitor 1.1's?  Its about the same price range.


Set-up is ExactPower SP15A/EP15A power conditioner & balanced power =>Oppo 93 transport => Monarchy DIP Upsampler => Nad M51 DAC/PRE => Job 225 Amp.

Gonna run it with Audioquest cables & interconnects.



Thanks!


P.S the designer at Shelby & Kroll also said along the same line about the Tektons. He basically said it will sound big but also heavy and wont compare sonically to their speakers. Is intended for $300 seperates.

I'll respond more in a bit, but just wondering where you read a review that said they were forward and aggressive? 

[SearchOfSub]

I read it from a Stereophille review I think. Will wait your response! thanks!

[Vapor Audio]

I'd be curious to know exactly where you saw that, if you could find it again. 

But no, forward and aggressive is definitely not how I would describe them.  Some speakers, Harbeths for example, are always laid back against the back wall in terms of imaging.  The Cirrus Black moves front to back depending on the recording, which implies better balance.  Norah Jones for example is often very forward, the Cirrus Black will put her voice even with the plane of the front of the speakers, but the trick is it stays there during her dynamic vocal peaks - it doesn't jump forward as it does with many many other speakers.  The soundstage has loads of depth because of this, front to back, not just all against the back wall as it is with laid back speakers. 

All our speakers are voiced extensively by me.  One set of ears decides with every design whether it's right or not, so the tonal balance is very similar across our entire line.  The voicing is important, many other manufacturers let the microphone and a computer simulation decide when it's right, but 1/4db here and 1/4db there can make a big difference in the way things are perceived, and when looking at a microphone measurement you'd be unable to tell a difference.  The Aurora and Arcus were two examples of there, where very small tweaks made a world of difference.  If I had to sum up my goal in voicing, it's to get as much detail retrieval as possible without ever being edgy, and not forgetting why we listen to music - the emotion, the romance. 

I haven't heard the Shelby Kroll speakers, I know some people here really like them.  My only thought on that topic is they use far lesser drivers.  The Tang Band drivers they use are ok, but have too many issues for me to consider using them.  I'd even consider the drivers in the Tekton Seas a step up from the Shelby Kroll drivers, they're at least better behaved and more consistent from the factory.

[roscoeiii]

I read it from a Stereophille review I think. Will wait your response! thanks!

Link please.

IIRC, Stereophile has not reviewed any Vapor speakers.


See some of the AC reviews from the Breeze tour about that RAAL tweeter. Not sure how its implementation differs from that of the Cirrus.

[SearchOfSub]

Thanks for the reply. Got some time so Im still looking around to find my "perfect" speaker. 


Anyway from what I've read the Shelby & Kroll won the maximum mojo award this year over the Tekton Pendragons and was compared to and preffered over the Wilson Alexndira by the reviewer at Stereomojo. It would really be intesresting if someone can compare the Nanomonitor 1.1's with the Cirrus..


Here is the review which I was talking about.. It was actually stereotimes review.

"Regardless of amplifier configuration, there is no getting around that the Cirrus Blacks have a forward overall presentation. It’s very well integrated and stable, but dramatically different from my Spendors, which soundstage to the rear of the front baffle of the speaker. Just to be sure this wasn’t an anomaly unique to my amplifier we also ran the speakers with a buddy’s solid state PSE Studio IV amplifier (a decent mid-90s performer that can be had for pennies) and found the sound-staging to be essentially the same, providing some confidence that we were driving the Cirrus Blacks in their intended voice range. I’m not suggesting that the forwardness of the soundstage is bad, it’s just very different than what I’m accustomed to hearing in my system. It took a few days, but once I’d grown accustomed to it I never really gave it another thought."



http://www.stereotimes.com/post/vapor-audio-cirrus-black-loudspeaker.




How do the higher end models differ in sound to the Cirrus? What is the newest speaker model? thanks!

[Pete Schumacher]

Thanks for the reply. Got some time so Im still looking around to find my "perfect" speaker. 


Anyway from what I've read the Shelby & Kroll won the maximum mojo award this year over the Tekton Pendragons and was compared to and preffered over the Wilson Alexndira by the reviewer at Stereomojo. It would really be intesresting if someone can compare the Nanomonitor 1.1's with the Cirrus..


Here is the review which I was talking about.. It was actually stereotimes review.

"Regardless of amplifier configuration, there is no getting around that the Cirrus Blacks have a forward overall presentation. It’s very well integrated and stable, but dramatically different from my Spendors, which soundstage to the rear of the front baffle of the speaker. Just to be sure this wasn’t an anomaly unique to my amplifier we also ran the speakers with a buddy’s solid state PSE Studio IV amplifier (a decent mid-90s performer that can be had for pennies) and found the sound-staging to be essentially the same, providing some confidence that we were driving the Cirrus Blacks in their intended voice range. I’m not suggesting that the forwardness of the soundstage is bad, it’s just very different than what I’m accustomed to hearing in my system. It took a few days, but once I’d grown accustomed to it I never really gave it another thought."



http://www.stereotimes.com/post/vapor-audio-cirrus-black-loudspeaker.




How do the higher end models differ in sound to the Cirrus? What is the newest speaker model? thanks!

From the context of that quote, I'd have to say that the reviewer is comparing the effective front edge of the sound stage put up by the Cirrus in comparison to Spendor among others.  The description of a stage "behind" the baffles of the Spendor or Harbeth would put  the Cirrus "forward" by comparison with a stage up to the baffles. 

With Cirrus cabinet construction, you get an enclosure that disappears, eliminating localization artifacts created by panel resonance and transmission of sound directly through the walls of the enclosure.  Add the best enclosure possible to the finest drivers available, voiced with a huge range of musical sources to identify any areas that detract from the realism, and you get something that Stereo Mojo said did to the YG Acoustics Kipod II what a Corvette does to its rear tires.
http://www.stereomojo.com/Rocky%20Mountain%20Audio%20Fest%202012%20Show%20Report/RockyMountainAudioFest2012ShowReportPart5.htm

The YG floor standers were actually listed at $47,000 pr.

Cirrus is a ridiculous value.

As for newest speaker, our Nimbus was the most recent launch. 

Read what Steve Nugent said about his experience at Nimbus debut in Newport Beach.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?11187-Vapor-Audio-the-best-value-in-audio&highlight=vapor+audio

We have begun construction on a new floor stander, slightly smaller than the Nimbus, using Audiotech and Accuton drivers and stacked ply construction.  After that, something that will make you contemplate doing whatever it takes to own a pair.

[Russell Dawkins]

SOS,  three weeks ago you posted this in The Lab circle:



http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119032.msg1251739#msg1251739

Have you cancelled your order with Tekton?

[SearchOfSub]

Yes I have...awhile back.   

[wisnon]

S+Krolls are great! Ask Rodge827 to comment.

[JLM]

I'd not over invest in speakers (for the 13 ft x 13 ft room you mentioned), at least until you have a plan for maximizing what you can do with the space (treatments/speaker-listener setup).

Square rooms (especially smaller ones) can be sonic nightmares.  In 40+ years I've seen all too often guys (including most bricks and mortar outlets) overspending and over sweating on gear and tweaks versus the crummy, silly, stupid rooms/setups they're stuck with.  The elephant IS the room.

[persisting1]

Square rooms (especially smaller ones) can be sonic nightmares.  In 40+ years I've seen all too often guys (including most bricks and mortar outlets) overspending and over sweating on gear and tweaks versus the crummy, silly, stupid rooms/setups they're stuck with.  The elephant IS the room.

Well said.

[SearchOfSub]

Thanks for the reply. I didnt think the room dimensions were important so I just said it off the top of my head. The actual dimentions are 13 x 13.6 x 9.5.

I have a door that leads to the kitechen, and double french doors at the back that I can keep open as well.



How is the soundstaging on the Cirrus? Is it deep and wide? Would it trick someone to thinking the listener is at the middle of a concert hall when called for? Thanks.

[SearchOfSub]

LOL I never knew you used to work for Stereomojo Ryan. Very interesting!!! Love reading Stereomojo stuff.