[mav52]

I think we are discussing (arguing? debating?) two issues here:
1) is hirez legit?  Yes, absolutely, but you need to know what to look for.  As Tyson so eloquently put it, don't look to the masses for its relevance or acceptance.
2) will hirez (audio, let alone recordings) sustain.  I doubt it.  There are no brick and mortars for us to take our children to go here cool stuff, and our own main rig hi-fi systems are of no interest to our kids.  Back in the day we had little choice but to crowd around the ONE tv in the house, or listen to "dad's stereo".  Now our kids have the entire universe of theirs to listen to portable music, portable video, portable social networking, etc.    Net/net, there is no farm system anymore.

Correct on both account.  My own kids, 27 and 31, both think hi-rez is downloading music from itunes to their ipods and heading to the beach with their ear buds.  The young group according to my kids is so mobile and it's all about taking their "life" with them when they go out.. Ipads, Iphones , talking, texting and facebook  the interest in music is not ( well at least according to my kids both college grads BA degrees) how it sounds, if it's accurate, is it remastered poorly but its there to listen to for enjoyment. . 

[*Scotty*]

I would describe the whole iTunes experience as musical mediocrity to go.
Scotty

[jimdgoulding]

delete   

[WGH]

Right now I'm listening to Blurred Lines by Robin Thicke over the Salk HR2-TL's, if this is what the masses are listening to then there is absolutely no need for hirez. The sound is so manipulated that it will sound acceptable over anything. Luckily just enough people eventually expand their musical taste beyond pop, and when they do hirez will gain enough of a foothold to survive.

I have to go and click the Foobar Stop button now.

Wayne

[InfernoSTi]

It seems that there are "golden" ages of every type of hobby.  Sometimes they are lost after that and other times they reemerge as a "second golden age", which is what I think we are in with audio. 

So many examples are out there: sports and muscle cars from the 1960s and today's sports and muscle cars, to name one category with obvious analogies.  That doesn't mean that everybody drives one (Corolla and Civics being the most popular cars out there, it seems).  It doesn't mean that the manufacturers "get it" (Porsche making four door sedans and SUVs?...the purists can't stand it) but some manufactures do.  And some consumers buy them.  And some even use them as they were designed to be used (as in tracking them on weekends).  And they tweak them with specialty parts, etc.  Sound familiar? 

I don't think the number of sales can be used as the definition of success (or else we need to say a Corolla is better than a Porsche 911 GT3 RS because they sell more units).  Nor can we discount that the number of people who are listening to music continues to be strong.  Perhaps because I live near Austin, TX but live music is huge with the young crowd.  Give them 20 years, a couple of kids and a mortgage and they will come around, just like we did. 

Which is my final point.  When I was 14, I had a great rig (for my amount of available funds), then my money went to cars and girls (and the rest I squandered, to quote George Best) and then to college and then my time went to work and moving a lot to build my career.  I had a poor system until I finally had enough stability and discretionary funds and time to start back where I left off over thirty years ago.  And I suspect that the same is true for many of us (in some variation of the facts and timelines).  These "kids" will come around in the same percentages as we did. 

The fact that youth love music is all that is needed for the future of our hobby...

Best,
John

[tortugaranger]

The fact that youth love music is all that is needed for the future of our hobby...

Well said John.

[mav52]

The fact that youth love music is all that is needed for the future of our hobby...   

Best,
John

  if the youth can find jobs to be able to support this hobby

[Blackstone]

I'm 33, been in the hobby for decades already. My dad has the flagship dCS system and the big B&W speaker setup. I slip stream behind with the Ayre QB-9 and a first rate headfi setup. N804 speakers, Bryston amp, ect.  I can't speak to the business side but from an enthusiast standpoint we've never been more content since we made the switch to computer based audio. Just having the whole library available on demand is a huge leap forward. And the material being put out at HD Tracks is just first rate. I've never heard the Blue Note catalog sound better than at 192Khz. Some material which would not survive either system's scrutiny in their last redbook cd iteration is getting serious critical listening in their remastered, hi rez forms, i.e., The Rolling Stones catalog. We went from hi rez is dead to a virtual flood of first rate software...more than I can keep up with. Qued up from an iPad remote control. The systems have more functionality and better sound at lower price points than ever before. This is as obscure a hobby as ever to be sure, but I have no complaints as a consumer.

I think the pricing is a bit high for the 192Khz material and needs to come down a bit. 2 gigabytes per album aldo runs against every trend in computing including enthusiast computing where solid state storage with high $/gigabyte ratios are becoming dominant. On the other hand, storage has also never been cheaper per gigabyte in conventional spinner hard drives and NAS storage units. Is setting up a NAS the modern day equivalent to fussing with vinyl and all the accesssories?

I've given up on the rest of humanity--let them listen to crap. Let alone the kids, including people my age lol. Even the ones with the inclination to engage don't have the disposable income these days. I don't even attempt to explain the hobby to my cohorts I just explain the tweeters on top of my speakers are not microphones and are not to be touched. I suggest you older folks grab yourself some 192KHz files, a bottle of wine and just wait for armaggedon. This is as great a time for listening as I've ever seen.

[wushuliu]

I agree that the (unmoderated?) comment section is rife with misinformation.

The hi res market, however, does start with a largely middle age or older demographic purchasing, perhaps for the 3rd or 4th time, physical or download versions of recordings that they first listened to in their youth. It's a win-win for the recording industry (hopefully, including the artists) who benefit from having a renewed opportunity to sell music whose sales heyday had passed years ago. I see no problem with any of this as I happily go about buying and enjoying my 3rd copy of CTTE.


The hat trick, of course, is getting younger listeners interested in hi res so that the hi res market, however niche, can be sustainable for the future.

It is my view that music recording listening has changed from being a larger "in the room" and often communal experience to becoming a more solitary earbud or headphone experience. For this, an iPod or smartphone, an untold number of mp3's and, perhaps, an iPod dock are often more than sufficient. The younger listener who wants a larger experience often steps up from there by purchasing Beats headphones, a product, in my view, which carries far overwhelmingly more social cache (as in cool to be seen wearing) than audio quality. I can't see anyone on this forum or over at headfi disagreeing with my last statement.

My hope and belief, however, is that this represents the best opportunity for hi res.

Esau

Right. People can snort at Beats and Dr. Dre but those headphones have spawned an entire sub industry that is a gateway to audiophilia, it's just that audiophile now pertains more to portable options. Heaphone amps and portable dacs are extremely popular and are getting more and more exclusive and expensive every year. Then there's the vinyl explosion which continues to exponentially grow every year and that's not factoring in that no accurate data on total sales from small shops is available so sales are believed to be even greater than estimated. Let's not forget that these younger listeners are getting older every year; they are not going to be listening to Beats when they get married and have kids. They will transition to home listening. It's just going to happen later and not sooner since a large stereo system is simply not a part of youth culture as it was for so many of us. Folks can diss Beats all they want but their success was a big step in reversing a downward spiral of the joy of *listening* to music.

[wisnon]

HD is not accessible, mostly due to lack of money to support proper listening environment and speakers.  Huge speakers in dedicated rooms just isn't in the cards for most (unless you're one of the fortunate few 45 - 70 demographic mentioned above).  That generation (my generation) grew up with stereo as the only techno-cool gig available for nerds (other than ham radio) and now a few of us are able and interested in assembling good systems. 

But typical 20/30 somethings don't have the money/space and frankly don't know what 'real' (live/unamplified) music sounds like.  Besides they're after convenience and instant gratification.  The economic/demographic realities dictate they will live in smaller budgets/houses for the foreseeable future.  But we have immense technologic resources available to blend HD into these limitations.

Equipment designers really need to work on merging 'life-style' with quality.  Wireless gear to work off their smartphone/laptop (the new BlueTooth standard is not HD but a good step in this direction).  Small 2-way powered/active speakers (for home enjoyment, not dry/nit-picking studio monitors) would be a very important step.  The KEF X300A is a good example: small, affordable, active design, placement flexible, includes a DAC (just add a wireless connection).  Better (and more costly) examples of all-in-one speakers exist (Quad 9AS, AVi 9RSS).  The Vanatoo Transparent One is a 'lesser' example but importantly less expensive.  Amphion is an excellent example of crossing the lines between studio, life-style, and up-scale home audio with their small 2-way passive speakers. 

Are these world beating technologies?  No, not quite, not today.  But it is the direction I believe the industry needs to move in and gives the 'outsiders' stepping stones to make the journey.  Unfortunately the past has indicated that this market is extremely slow to embrace this kind of 'compromise'.

When iFi Audio goes portable, they will have addressed this need you cited. On the speaker front, dont forget about the fast selling Peachtree Audio DEEPBLUE.

[wisnon]

I think we are discussing (arguing? debating?) two issues here:
1) is hirez legit?  Yes, absolutely, but you need to know what to look for.  As Tyson so eloquently put it, don't look to the masses for its relevance or acceptance.
2) will hirez (audio, let alone recordings) sustain.  I doubt it.  There are no brick and mortars for us to take our children to go here cool stuff, and our own main rig hi-fi systems are of no interest to our kids.  Back in the day we had little choice but to crowd around the ONE tv in the house, or listen to "dad's stereo".  Now our kids have the entire universe of theirs to listen to portable music, portable video, portable social networking, etc.    Net/net, there is no farm system anymore.

Europe still has a farm system and very few people here live in houses with dedicated listening rooms. You still see young couples with baby strollers going to an audio show on Sunday.

Something like Axpona or RMAF should be advertising for HSchool and college kids to visit and look at the COOL stuff on display. Prices should be halved for them with student IDs and the organizers should ensure they have stands for the trendy audio giys like Beats/iFi/Dragonfly/Geek/etc.

It takes honey to catch flies!