Anyone up for a new thread material experiment?

Erocka2000 · « **on:** 4 Sep 2013, 08:11 pm »

This was mentioned on the Steve Hoffman Forums. It's a kevlar thread that's .15mm/.006" thick which is only slightly thicker than the standard thread (.004"). I wonder if the kevlar would be any good as a belt material. We all know it's incredibly strong, being used in bulletproof vests. I'm curious to try some. Anyone else have any thoughts on kevlar thread?

http://www.thethreadexchange.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD2&Store_Code=TTE&Product_Code=KEV023NATL00B&Category_Code=Kevlar_Thread_Size_023

SteevA · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Sep 2013, 09:36 pm »

Probably not very good as it has no stretch. The current thread relies on a small amount of elasticity to keep it tight. Since kevlar has little or no stretch you would need to get the length right to within probably less than 1mm to make it grip yet not be too tight to get on.

But if you can get some, try it.

Steve

threadkiller · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Sep 2013, 05:03 am »

Agreed, worth trying. Dunno about the thickness. Mr P gave me something to try one time, sort of like dental floss? Horrible sounding. Very strong sounding yet lost all the finesse this table has.
So proceed away but don't be disappointed if it sucks.

watercourse · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Sep 2013, 11:06 pm »

Erocka, any findings from this experiment? I just broke another one...

Erocka2000 · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Sep 2013, 12:02 am »

I just wound up buying some monocord Kevlar thread. I'll be trying it out tomorrow night. I'll let you know what happens.

Erocka2000 · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Sep 2013, 05:29 pm »

I only got to try it quickly last night, but it wasn't that successful. As Steve mentioned, it kevlar doesn't stretch, so it was a tight fit around the platter. I'll try it again to see if I can make a belt that's a little bigger, probably over the weekend. If it does work, I can tell you that these belts will last a long time. It's incredibly strong material.

BobM · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Sep 2013, 12:20 pm »

You DON'T want any stretch in your thread belt. That's why cotton thread isn't used and silk thread is. Silk doesn't stretch. Poly doesn't either.

ckimmelshue · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Nov 2013, 04:39 pm »

I've been using Singer commercial grade poly-centered [sewing] thread for the past 100 hours with great success. I would often break the nylon and poly belts provided to me. This new arrangement has not only lasted longer, but it sounds fantastic too.

ADiG · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Apr 2014, 11:58 am »

I did not agree on the exchange the material on the belt of Amadeus, but after more than two years and I realize that I know this turntable belts with monofilament polyester, nylon thread I experienced the same size:

1) the nylon handles better - I prefer a loop knot to double knot

2) by sliding it between the fingers, it is less rough polyester.
3) non-twist
4) more resistant to tearing
5) seems to be more elastic

It 's just one day that I installed the nylon and I have yet to assess whether there are changes in pitch, durability and noise
By the time we'll see ...

ADiG · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 May 2014, 10:11 am »

...until now everything always better - in short, I will describe all the details for the use of nylon thread..

ADiG · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 May 2014, 08:43 am »

after a month no problem:
the resistance of the nylon thread is higher, the constancy of speed is more regular...

the first time you install the new belt:
always helping the plate in the first start and never turn off the engine.
Make a preliminary adjustment of the speed, after about 10 minutes of starting and repeat the check after an hour or more.
Every time I start the turntable, it takes only a few minutes before reaching the correct rotational speed - but after a few hours, remains constant.

I used this fishing line:

are fine but all kinds of yarn quality fishing
but with only one loop/knot

PS: sorry for bad english...

ADiG · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Jun 2014, 11:24 am »

I confirm, the nylon thread is more like life - I think around six months, as the Scheu Analog.
And 'more stable and precise - it keeps for a long time the setting speed
and then, (but can be a 'impression) is quieter ... maybe also for the single loop instead of the double knot

What do you think Mr. Firebaugh?

SteevA · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Jun 2014, 05:51 am »

Quote from: BobM on 26 Sep 2013, 12:20 pm

You DON'T want any stretch in your thread belt. That's why cotton thread isn't used and silk thread is. Silk doesn't stretch. Poly doesn't either.

Wrong. For starters, if you dont have a small amount of stretch you will not be able to change speeds.

Steve

ctsooner · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Jun 2014, 11:19 am »

Hope this is the right thread. I'm very interested in the Simplex or Amadeus tables. I'm just getting back into audio and was told that the Well Tempered tables are the best bang for the buck in their price ranges. That's saying a lot and I want to eventually hear them. The thing that concerns the heck out of me is the belt. It just seems difficult to have to deal with and in reading this thread it seems like if I screw up, the sound will suffer quite a bit. I have MS and may not be able to tie knots all the time. It's too bad, but this may be a deal breaker for me.

How often does the belt need replacing? Do you guys just tinker for the fun of it to max out the sound? Why would a piece of filament this strong break in simple work like this?

I dont' mean to hijack this thread and please move this post if you need to, but I'm hoping you guys can help me out here. Thanks in advance.

vortrex · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Jun 2014, 12:59 pm »

Some people have great luck with the belts and some people like me were breaking them consistently every 3 weeks or so. It was a huge pain and was eventually what made me move onto other tables. Making belts is not easy. You need to create a jig to get the right belt length. You can get free belts from the dealer, but in my case that did not help since they were breaking so often.

ctsooner · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Jun 2014, 03:55 pm »

thanks Vortex. That's my biggest concern. My dealer would get WT if I wanted to buy one badly enough. I need to listen to one first. He has VPI and Clearaudio Concept I guess it would be. I'd need to listen to all at the same place and time obviously to see what matches best with my system. I have a friend who has the more expensive WT and he swears by it. Maybe the dealer would just give me a bunch of belts just in case. I am a woodworker and would be able to build the jig, but the tying part could be a problem in the future and I worry about that part I guess. Interesting stuff.

watercourse · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Jun 2014, 04:29 pm »

I'm another WT owner that had threads breaking pretty often. But WT has a "belt for life" policy, meaning you can just keep requesting belts directly from Mike Pranka and not have to worry at least about tying your own belts.

I probably went through about 8 or 9 in less than a year, so they'd break at least once a month, but this current one has held up for almost a year now. Mike told me breakage is due to individual belt quality issues, which I agree is the most likely culprit, as I haven't changed my behavior re: handling turntables significantly over the ownership of the table.

I would strongly suggest listening to the tables you're interested in together, preferably in your own system. I was able to borrow a buddy's VPI Classic to compare against a few tables in house.

ctsooner · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Jun 2014, 04:32 pm »

Thanks for the answers. Since these belts don't cost much, I wonder if he'd just send me a bunch of them so that I don't have to worry about making them and then having to be without while waiting for the next one???

watercourse · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Jun 2014, 04:34 pm »

Quote from: ctsooner on 7 Jun 2014, 04:32 pm

Thanks for the answers. Since these belts don't cost much, I wonder if he'd just send me a bunch of them so that I don't have to worry about making them and then having to be without while waiting for the next one???

The answer is yes, I requested 5 the first time, then 10, and have a few stockpiled now. Mike only asked that I return the small plastic baggies he sends the individual belts in.

ctsooner · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Jun 2014, 04:37 pm »

Really? That's kind of strange, lol. Quirky, but they seem to make a great table. I loved theirs back in the 80/90's. I loved Sota with the vacuum too, but I always thought if was gimicky. As long as you have a great arm and motor you should be alright. Have any of you guys owned a Sota?