How to use the Squeezebox Touch to play DSD files on a DoP compatible DAC

Hammer · « **Reply #100 on:** 1 Jan 2014, 03:49 pm »

Hi everyone and Happy New Year!

Does anyone know if it is possible to have more than just the USB output active at the same time when using EDO on a SBT? I would like to connect two DACs to my SBT so I can compare them, but it seems when I enable USB output, the other outputs (optical and COAX) stops working.

Thanks in advance!

Hammer

Russtafarian · « **Reply #101 on:** 13 Jan 2014, 06:33 pm »

Inspired by seeing the various (and mostly overpriced) Linux-based server/streamer boxes at CES, I decided to give Daphile a spin this weekend. I re-purposed a 4 year old and otherwise useless netbook (1.6ghz Atom, 1g RAM) to boot and run Daphile from a USB stick. After some trial and error in setup, I think I have it running fairly stable. It is seamlessly playing all my stereo files, including 24/192 PCM and single DSD, through my Benchmark DAC2 HGC. As stated below, Daphile does DoP on the fly so there's no need to convert DSF files to DoP FLAC files. I'm controlling it with Ipeng on my Ipod Touch.

It does sound different, and possibly better than my typical Win7/Jriver/Benchmark setup, which surprised me. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions until I live with it for a while and do some comparison listening. But this inexpensive setup shows serious potential and is a viable solution for those looking for a simple hi-rez PCM/DSD file playback system.

Russ

mcgsxr · « **Reply #102 on:** 13 Jan 2014, 07:56 pm »

Appreciate the Daphile insights. I have a NetBook running Win 7 and LMS at the moment. Happy with red book, but cannot play some of my high Rez tunes, so considering a DAC and some work to play with it.

Dave543210 · « **Reply #103 on:** 19 Jan 2014, 12:51 pm »

I was wondering if anyone had successfully made a DoP FLAC direct from a DST file? (A DST file is just lossless-compressed DSD.)

I managed to do this in Foobar, and the resultant DoP FLAC plays back fine in Foobar. However, I don't yet have a DSD DAC (I have a Geek Pulse on order) so am not able to properly test it yet. Is there anyone out there who could test this for me?

Much appreciated in advance!

holzohr · « **Reply #104 on:** 20 Jan 2014, 08:25 pm »

Hi Dave,
DoP FLACs made from DST files play fine with my DSD DAC. The only thing is foobar needs more time to create them compared to uncompressed DSD-files.

Dave543210 · « **Reply #105 on:** 20 Jan 2014, 08:38 pm »

@ holzohr: Many thanks. Actually, I realised after posting my comment that my original attempt at making a DoP was just an ordinary PCM FLAC! I think the reason was I had the output bit-depth set to "24-bit" instead of "automatic." After realising this, it now appears to be working as I just get white noise (as should be expected) when playing the DoP back in Foobar through a PCM soundcard.

I will be getting a DoP compatible DAC in a few months so will then be able to stream my DoPs via my Touch. Whoo-hoo!

soulkeeper · « **Reply #106 on:** 21 Jan 2014, 07:06 pm »

Great thread!
Going to try tonight with SBT and iDSD nano dad..

PS 1) Does this work with DSD 128 ?

2) why should the converted DoP file be xx/176,4 and not xx/192?

Russtafarian · « **Reply #107 on:** 21 Jan 2014, 09:23 pm »

Quote

Great thread!
Going to try tonight with SBT and iDSD nano dad..

PS 1) Does this work with DSD 128 ?

2) why should the converted DoP file be xx/176,4 and not xx/192?

My understanding of the DoP protocol is that 176.4 khz is the standardized "package" for single DSD. Using 192 would provide a sightly larger "package" to carry single DSD, but would not make any sonic difference. What gets decoded by the DoP DAC is the single DSD bitstream, not a PCM resampling of the DSD. Double DSD via DoP would use 352.8 khz (pretty sure about this but not certain).

Since the SBT is limited to no more than 192khz sampling rate (with the EDO plug-in), Double DSD is not supported.

Russ

soulkeeper · « **Reply #108 on:** 21 Jan 2014, 11:04 pm »

Thanks!

holzohr · « **Reply #109 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 11:38 am »

Quote from: Russtafarian on 21 Jan 2014, 09:23 pm

Double DSD via DoP would use 352.8 khz (pretty sure about this but not certain).

I can confirm about that. Was trying this with the Opus3 DSD128 albums and Daphile. It means it needs an USB connection computer -> DSD DAC

Russtafarian · « **Reply #110 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 06:26 pm »

Since I started this thread, I'll give an update on where I'm at with it. Although I've figured out how to do the DSF to DoP FLAC conversion, for me the process of converting and organizing over 10,000 DSD files to DoP FLAC is just too overwhelming to undertake.

Daphile was mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm trying it now and so far I like it. For me, running Daphile on an old laptop is a better squeezebox/LMS solution for playing DSF files than batch converting DSF to DoP FLAC and using a EDO/SBT setup. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/call-testers-daphile-16767/index5.html#post291939

For those who are established SBT users with a smaller library of DSD titles, the conversion process may still be the way to go. It looks like Jesus at Sonore is working on a conversion tool that will be even easier to use than what we have here. http://www.sonore.us/apps.html

Russ

Dave543210 · « **Reply #111 on:** 24 Jan 2014, 07:47 pm »

Quote from: Russtafarian on 22 Jan 2014, 06:26 pm

It looks like Jesus at Sonore is working on a conversion tool that will be even easier to use than what we have here. http://www.sonore.us/apps.html

Russ

Thanks for the link, Russ. What would also be nice would be a tool that can re-convert DoP back to dff. As I understand it, currently there is no way to do this, hence everything needs to be double-backed-up (keeping the original dff or ISOs).

holzohr · « **Reply #112 on:** 24 Jan 2014, 08:25 pm »

Russ.. something that's maybe interesting to you. I updated Daphile today and now you can choose the player: SqueezePlay or the new alternative Squeezelite. I asked Kipeta/Kimmo what player I should choose. He answered that "Squeezelite has slightly better support for DSD because it fills up the pause gaps with "DSD silence" while SqueezePlay switches to PCM silence (relay clicks)."
And indeed when I skip the DSD tracks there are no more any relay clicks to hear as with the SqueezePlay before (playing a DSD album or a DSD playlist gaplessly was never a problem). That' s a real plus to me.

Quote from: Dave543210 on 24 Jan 2014, 07:47 pm

Thanks for the link, Russ. What would also be nice would be a tool that can re-convert DoP back to dff. As I understand it, currently there is no way to do this, hence everything needs to be double-backed-up (keeping the original dff or ISOs).

Dave, I agree with you about this. Therefore I like Daphile. It converts DSD to DoP on-the-fly.

Russtafarian · « **Reply #113 on:** 24 Jan 2014, 10:58 pm »

Quote

Russ.. something that's maybe interesting to you. I updated Daphile today and now you can choose the player: SqueezePlay or the new alternative Squeezelite.

I'll check that out. Thanks.

Russtafarian · « **Reply #114 on:** 28 Jan 2014, 12:50 am »

I updated Daphile over the weekend and you're right. Using the squeezelite option, DSF file playback transitions are much smoother. Thanks for the tip.

Russ

holzohr · « **Reply #115 on:** 28 Jan 2014, 12:39 pm »

Russ, does your Benchmark DAC have relay clicks when switching from PCM to DSD? Mine does and thank of Squeezelite now my DAC remains in "DSD-mode" when skipping to the next/previous tracks and also after the last song of a DSD album/playlist. A real advantage opposite to SqueezePlay. With a noiseless DAC (without any relay clicks) you are already a lucky fellow, no matter if with SqueezePlay or Squeezelite

john greenwood · « **Reply #116 on:** 28 Jan 2014, 03:48 pm »

I've been through this thread, but I'm not certain I understood how everything came out vis a vis using the Touch with the Teac UD-501.

Russtafarian · « **Reply #117 on:** 28 Jan 2014, 08:41 pm »

Quote

I've been through this thread, but I'm not certain I understood how everything came out vis a vis using the Touch with the Teac UD-501.

Your best option is to PM bprice2 and find out directly from him how he got it to work. I think he had to use a USB 2.0 hub between the SBT and DAC but I don't know the details.

Russ

john greenwood · « **Reply #118 on:** 28 Jan 2014, 09:01 pm »

PM already sent

Dave543210 · « **Reply #119 on:** 2 Feb 2014, 10:02 pm »

Folks, I wonder if any of you could try something for me as an experiment to see if you get the same results as me? The thing is, I am still awaiting delivery of my first DSD DAC, so am as yet unable to test my DoP files in my SB Touch.

I have been creating DoP FLACs in Foobar - which is buggy as hell, and more than half the time I just get 24-bit PCM FLACs regardless of the settings

, but sometimes I can get it to work.

I test my DoP FLACs in VLC, because I know VLC cannot play DSD. So I just get lots of hiss. Great, that's what one should expect, and suggests the conversion has worked!

HOWEVER, if I turn the VLC volume up to the max, I can very faintly hear the music under the hiss! WTF!

That shouldn't be possible, should it?

Could someone else try playing a DoP file in VLC and let me know if they can hear music please?