How to use the Squeezebox Touch to play DSD files on a DoP compatible DAC

bprice2 · « **Reply #20 on:** 5 Sep 2013, 08:50 pm »

Quote from: bprice2 on 28 Aug 2013, 09:37 pm

I believe I got the conversion to flac done, but I still don't know why I was having problems. My fix was to simply move to another computer. My suspicion about being unable to convert to flac on the 1st computer is that the problem had something to do with flac.exe and not foobar2000.

With that being said, I still cannot get DSD through my DAC. I believe the problem is with the DAC itself. If I understand correctly, the TEAC UD-501 only does DSD through the USB input and the TEAC's USB input will not work with EDO. So, there you have. I'm screwed. What I'm getting now utilizing the coax out on the Touch shows up on the DAC as 176.4 PCM

If anyone knows of a way to get the UD-501's USB input to play with EDO, I'd love to hear about it.

It appears that I have been able to move the ball down the field somewhat. I can now make a USB connection between the EDO'd Touch and the TEAC. This was accomplished by simply placing a 2.0 USB hub between the two devices.

Unfortunately (strangely?), the TEAC reads the DoP file as PCM 176.4. I don't even see how this is possible. Maybe you guys have some ideas?

Russtafarian · « **Reply #21 on:** 6 Sep 2013, 07:10 pm »

Quote

Unfortunately (strangely?), the TEAC reads the DoP file as PCM 176.4. I don't even see how this is possible. Maybe you guys have some ideas?

The DoP file is formatted as 176.4 PCM so that makes sense. The 176.4 PCM DoP file is a taxi cab for the DSD file. Once the cab arrives, the DoP function in the DAC is supposed to pay the fare, open the door, and invite Mr. DSD to step outside and shake his groove thang.

Just curious, does your Teac currently play DSD from a Mac or PC?

Russ

bprice2 · « **Reply #22 on:** 6 Sep 2013, 08:02 pm »

Quote from: Russtafarian on 6 Sep 2013, 07:10 pm

The DoP file is formatted as 176.4 PCM so that makes sense. The 176.4 PCM DoP file is a taxi cab for the DSD file. Once the cab arrives, the DoP function in the DAC is supposed to pay the fare, open the door, and invite Mr. DSD to step outside and shake his groove thang.

Just curious, does your Teac currently play DSD from a Mac or PC?

Russ

Maybe I'm not understanding, but it's not a 176.4 PCM file. It's a DSD file wrapped in a flac container...right? So, why would the TEAC see it as PCM when there is not actually a PCM file there? That's what I'm finding strange.

Yes, I can play DSD files from my computer to the TEAC. The TEAC even recognizes DSD as such.

Russtafarian · « **Reply #23 on:** 6 Sep 2013, 09:35 pm »

Quote

Maybe I'm not understanding, but it's not a 176.4 PCM file. It's a DSD file wrapped in a flac container...right?

Yes, and that FLAC container is formatted as 176.4 PCM. A non-DoP DAC would lock onto the file as PCM, try to play it and fail. A DoP DSD DAC will lock onto the file as PCM, recognize the DoP flag, strip off the DoP wrapper and play it as DSD.

The Teac does play DSD for you so that's not the issue. The Teac receives the DoP file but doesn't know to decode it as DSD. Something is getting missed in the handshake between the file and the DAC. I'm stumped too.

Russ

audiogoober · « **Reply #24 on:** 6 Sep 2013, 10:02 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 27 Aug 2013, 11:19 pm

Russ,
this is a great primer! Thanks! If you don't mind may I use this (with full disclosure to you, the author) in my revised SACD Ripping Guide? I need to do major revisions (mostly to the after-ripping-now-what portions) and this would be a great addition. I will wait until it "fleshes out" with any opinions, changes, adjustments or feedback.
Ted

Ted,

Is the Meitner ma-1 a " A DoP DSD DAC will lock onto the file as PCM, recognize the DoP flag, strip off the DoP wrapper and play it as DSD" like Russ mentions? Does your MA-1 strip off the DoP wrapper and play as a DSD file? Do you get two blue input LED's on your MA-1 which confirms it's in DSD mode? I'm having trouble with this procedure using my MA-1.

Thanks,

Greg

ted_b · « **Reply #25 on:** 7 Sep 2013, 01:03 am »

The Meitner is only a DoP DAC in that it has no native ASIO driver for DSD; the ASIO driver on the website is really only DSD for Kernel Steaming or WASAPI.. However, I have plenty of normal DoP sources (Jplay, Jriver via CAPS, etc...and yes they light up both lights

) and no Squeezebox Touch with EDO mod, so I am not the person to test this bundling with FLAC. But yes, the Meitner (and 90% of other DACs) will work with DoP just fine. If anyone is concerned, check our DSD DAC table on the DSD database google page.

Russtafarian · « **Reply #26 on:** 7 Sep 2013, 02:29 am »

What will help here is to test all these DoP DACs to determine which ones will work with this process and document any DAC parameters that need to be set.

I propose that everyone with a DoP DSD DAC send it to me for an extended audition so I can figure this out.

I'm doing this for the audio community. Because I care.

Russ

ted_b · « **Reply #27 on:** 7 Sep 2013, 02:31 am »

That is soo thoughtful Russ. I will send you all 6 of my DSD DACS I have inhouse. NOT!!!

audiogoober · « **Reply #28 on:** 7 Sep 2013, 03:07 am »

Thanks for the response. I'll keep working on it.

ted_b · « **Reply #29 on:** 7 Sep 2013, 01:13 pm »

Quote from: audiogoober on 7 Sep 2013, 03:07 am

Thanks for the response. I'll keep working on it.

Have you tried your pc and USB (with Jriver, for example) just to get DoP working?

audiogoober · « **Reply #30 on:** 8 Sep 2013, 12:34 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 7 Sep 2013, 01:13 pm

Have you tried your pc and USB (with Jriver, for example) just to get DoP working?

Thanks Ted! I have not tried this yet and will give it a try.

Russtafarian · « **Reply #31 on:** 9 Sep 2013, 04:22 pm »

Jesus R mentioned a really important point over on CA for making sure DoP files play correctly. PCM streaming must be bit perfect. So whether the files are being played back from a PC via USB or a EDO SBT, software volume control must be at 100% or turned off and there should be no other DSP processing between the player and the DAC.

I earlier reported I couldn't get the DoP files to play with Jriver USB to the DAC. Once I reset Jriver for bit perfect PCM streaming, the DoP files play fine. I'll update the guide to clarify this.

Russ

ted_b · « **Reply #32 on:** 9 Sep 2013, 04:36 pm »

So JRIver bitstreaming must be set to "off"?

Russtafarian · « **Reply #33 on:** 9 Sep 2013, 05:06 pm »

Quote

So JRIver bitstreaming must be set to "off"?

DoP bitstreaming in Jriver can be left on. Jriver ignores this function when streaming PCM files, and the DoP FLAC files are PCM files for streaming purposes. The DoP bitstreaming function only kicks in when Jriver encounters a native DSD file.

All other Jriver DSP functions should be turned off. You can tell when Jriver is streaming bit-perfect PCM because the "EQ" button turns blue (next to the "repeat" and "shuffle" buttons near the search box).

You can set up an auto-switch playback zone configured exclusively for DoP files if your normal PCM playback does use the Jriver DSP functions.

Russ

ted_b · « **Reply #34 on:** 9 Sep 2013, 05:19 pm »

Right, I thought maybe something needed to be done with bitstreaming when you said "Once I reset Jriver for bit perfect PCM streaming, the DoP files play fine. " Thanks.

holzohr · « **Reply #35 on:** 9 Sep 2013, 05:46 pm »

Hello everyone. Russtafarian, thank you very much for opening this thread. As Guidof I have read about this exciting topic on the Slimdevices Forum and found your thread via Google. I have ordered a Matrix X-Sabre today as a DAC for my SBT (with EDO app). According to the DSD Database even its digital inputs accept DoP. USB connection should work, thanks to XMOS chip.

Can`t wait to get the DAC! If this should work, I can stop dreaming of the LUMIN!

Regards
Mario

Guidof · « **Reply #36 on:** 13 Sep 2013, 04:19 am »

Got a Benchmark DAC2 D yesterday. I'm delighted with the sound quality but I seem to have a most annoying problem. When connected via USB from a Logitech Squeezebox with EDO (Enhanced Digital Output), switching from a 16/44 to a 24/96 track or vice versa, makes the new track play horribly distorted. Sometimes re-engaging USB 2.0 from the remote cures the problem. Most of the time it does not.

SPDIF via Toslink, on the other hand, works fine. Haven't tried coax yet.

On another forum, it was suggested that a powered USB may be helpful. (I will try it next).

Has anyone had this problem with SBT and Benchmark DAC2? Any advice on how to solve it?

Regards,

Guido F.

holzohr · « **Reply #37 on:** 13 Sep 2013, 06:35 am »

Guido, I found this in the EDO compatibility list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqiK6WHnz5FHdEtlalVRb29pX3N2WXhfMlAzNmFMZnc#gid=0 for your DAC:

"SPDIF and Optical - everything works. For USB, user must set EDO Buffer size to any setting except "Default" or "Very Large + Randomise CPU", then let the Touch reboot to reacquire handshake with the DAC or else sound will be distorted."

Russtafarian · « **Reply #38 on:** 13 Sep 2013, 06:04 pm »

Quote

Guido, I found this in the EDO compatibility list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqiK6WHnz5FHdEtlalVRb29pX3N2WXhfMlAzNmFMZnc#gid=0 for your DAC:

Great resource! Thank you. I've added this link to the document for future reference.

Russ

Guidof · « **Reply #39 on:** 13 Sep 2013, 07:57 pm »

Quote from: holzohr on 13 Sep 2013, 06:35 am

Guido, I found this in the EDO compatibility list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqiK6WHnz5FHdEtlalVRb29pX3N2WXhfMlAzNmFMZnc#gid=0 for your DAC:

"SPDIF and Optical - everything works. For USB, user must set EDO Buffer size to any setting except "Default" or "Very Large + Randomise CPU", then let the Touch reboot to reacquire handshake with the DAC or else sound will be distorted."

Thanks very much for the tip. I'll try it over the weekend.

Guido F.