ZYX In The House

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neobop

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Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #20 on: 17 Aug 2013, 12:58 pm »
Well... it's only my second morning waking up with the new ZYX R100H Yatra cartridge. I'm in the process of putting only my third hour on the illustrious cart. Initially, I am struck by the speed and immediacy of this cartridge. As I mentioned earlier, I can hear that it sounds a little "tight" in the lower mids and the low end. I was kinda expecting that until the cartridge loosened up after putting some real play time on it. Nonetheless, this little, red guy sounds astonishing well (in my system) right out of the box. Sparkle, Punch, PRAT. It is not dry. Fairly neutral with a touch of warmth.

It's a helluva lot of fun! I am comparing to: Transfiguration Axis, Transfiguration Phoenix, Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood, Clearaudio Maestro Wood and Sumiko Blackbird... all of which I've used in the last three years. Even from the get-go, this ZYX is starting out as a serious contender for my fav so far. In the ZYX choice, I tried to pick a cart with a lot of bang for the buck without breaking the bank. Those Transfiguration cartridges are quite a bit more expensive than the the R100 Yatra, but this just might, actually, maybe, perhaps be more of the sound I am fantasizing for...

Well, I think and I only had the Airy for only about 30 hours on it, it was used an had another 50 or so...but I remembered that my 901 had a larger more precise soundstage and more depth!  The ZYX has more micro dynamics and was definitely more extended...and punchier.  I guess I am hoping the new crop of Shelter cartridge will give me some of the warmth I seek as I loved the 501 and the 901, it was just a tad too hot for my set up.  We'll see...

Great stuff here, at least as far as the audio aspect.  I was thinking the arm might favor ZYX, but these comments seem sort of "universal" about sound  characteristics of these two brands.  The soundstage depth of Shelter is to be expected in light of perceived amplitude response differences, but a larger more precise stage?  That's interesting.  I would guess that would be due to differences in compliance, tip contact area and effective tip mass.
Shelter is more Koetsu-like  with a stiffer suspension.  The elliptical tip has the most limited vertical contact of any shape and the microridge has the most, or close to it. 

The look of a component is very important to some people, and can be a big factor even with those who say they don't really care.  Does it look elegant or industrial or cool, when we gaze upon the machine that gives us so much listening pleasure?   I'll shut up now before I start writing bad poetry.
neo


roscoeiii

Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #21 on: 17 Aug 2013, 04:00 pm »
Great stuff here, at least as far as the audio aspect.  I was thinking the arm might favor ZYX, but these comments seem sort of "universal" about sound  characteristics of these two brands.  The soundstage depth of Shelter is to be expected in light of perceived amplitude response differences, but a larger more precise stage?  That's interesting.  I would guess that would be due to differences in compliance, tip contact area and effective tip mass.
Shelter is more Koetsu-like  with a stiffer suspension.  The elliptical tip has the most limited vertical contact of any shape and the microridge has the most, or close to it. 

The look of a component is very important to some people, and can be a big factor even with those who say they don't really care.  Does it look elegant or industrial or cool, when we gaze upon the machine that gives us so much listening pleasure?   I'll shut up now before I start writing bad poetry.
neo

Some interesting tidbits on ZYX/Shelter tonearm matching:

Even with the ZYX's somewhat higher compliance, Moerch recommends using their heaviest arm wand (Blue Dot, effective mass of 14g) with the ZYX carts. While for the Shelter carts, they recommend the considerably lighter effective mass red armwand (6 g effective mass). 

Armwand-cart matching list for Moerch arms here:

http://www.moerch.dk/files/Cartridge%20Armtube%20Combination%20List.pdf

And the effective masses of the various Moerch armwands:

Green dot: Effective mass 4 g.
Red dot: Effective mass 6 g.
Yellow dot: Effective mass 8 g.
Blue dot: Effective mass 14 g.

As for what differences this will make, I can't say. Maybe someone with direct experience can say, or maybe a well-informed vinyl guru can speculate.

Sonny

Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #22 on: 17 Aug 2013, 04:52 pm »
Here are a couple of pictures taken this morning.  I will also include a link to a youtube to hear how the ZYX sounds then hopefully in this coming week, do the same with the Shelter. 






More to come but associated equipment is as follows:

VPI 12.7i tonearm
Vahalla tonearm wires
Sweet Spot Reveal Silver hybrid from tonearm to Pass Labs DIY XONO Phono Preamp loaded at 50 ohms
VPI Rim Drive with after market RIM Drive Belt
VPI SDS
Custom (Bill Berndt) Steel plinth (125lbs) and Stainless Steel tonearm pod (30lbs)
Pass X1 preamp
Pass X250 Amp
DIY GeerS eVe II Speakers

Did I leave anything out?

roscoeiii

Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #23 on: 17 Aug 2013, 05:18 pm »
Here are a couple of pictures taken this morning.  I will also include a link to a youtube to hear how the ZYX sounds then hopefully in this coming week, do the same with the Shelter. 


More to come but associated equipment is as follows:

VPI 12.7i tonearm
Vahalla tonearm wires
Sweet Spot Reveal Silver hybrid from tonearm to Pass Labs DIY XONO Phono Preamp loaded at 50 ohms
VPI Rim Drive with after market RIM Drive Belt
VPI SDS
Custom (Bill Berndt) Steel plinth (125lbs) and Stainless Steel tonearm pod (30lbs)
Pass X1 preamp
Pass X250 Amp
DIY GeerS eVe II Speakers

Did I leave anything out?

What is the effective mass of that tonearm? Can't seem to find it anywhere...

Sonny

Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #24 on: 17 Aug 2013, 05:25 pm »
I believe Mike at VPI said 12 something...

Sonny



Sonny


neobop

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Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #28 on: 17 Aug 2013, 10:42 pm »
Some interesting tidbits on ZYX/Shelter tonearm matching:

Even with the ZYX's somewhat higher compliance, Moerch recommends using their heaviest arm wand (Blue Dot, effective mass of 14g) with the ZYX carts. While for the Shelter carts, they recommend the considerably lighter effective mass red armwand (6 g effective mass). 

Armwand-cart matching list for Moerch arms here:

http://www.moerch.dk/files/Cartridge%20Armtube%20Combination%20List.pdf

And the effective masses of the various Moerch armwands:

Green dot: Effective mass 4 g.
Red dot: Effective mass 6 g.
Yellow dot: Effective mass 8 g.
Blue dot: Effective mass 14 g.

As for what differences this will make, I can't say. Maybe someone with direct experience can say, or maybe a well-informed vinyl guru can speculate.

I have no experience with Moerch arms and I'm certainly not a guru, but I wouldn't put much faith in that cart matching chart. 

The arm w/green dot wand is supposed to have 4g eff mass?  Seems highly unlikely for a 230mm eff length curved arm.  Is it entirely plastic or carbon fiber? 

Scroll down to DL103d.  They're recommending an arm of 6-8g eff mass?  Could that be the mass of the wand and not resultant eff mass?  Still.....
I don't think this has much to do with the quality of Moerch arms, just the chart.

Getting back on topic, all ZYX carts weigh 4.2 to 5g and have cu of 15 @ 10Hz.  Shelter vary a bit more in weight - 8.1 to 11g, and cu seems to be 9 for all models.  I've read that this is also 10 Hz compliance and it seems to make sense. 
neo 

 

Sonny

Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #29 on: 18 Aug 2013, 04:14 am »
Shelter 7000 installed...will give impression soon!  Til then here are some pictures:











Ericus Rex

Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #30 on: 18 Aug 2013, 11:42 am »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBI9DNITEzY&feature=youtu.be
try now

Very nice!  Sounds very alive and immediate.

BTW, for those not sure how to pronounce ZYX I spoke with the former importer, Tom Wu, a few years ago.  I had always thought the brand was Z-Y-X as the all-caps implies this (as does the definition of the letters above) but Tom said the Japanese owners/designers pronounce it 'Zicks'.  Go figure.  Thought I'd share.

bside123

Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #31 on: 18 Aug 2013, 01:21 pm »
Very nice!  Sounds very alive and immediate.

BTW, for those not sure how to pronounce ZYX I spoke with the former importer, Tom Wu, a few years ago.  I had always thought the brand was Z-Y-X as the all-caps implies this (as does the definition of the letters above) but Tom said the Japanese owners/designers pronounce it 'Zicks'.  Go figure.  Thought I'd share.

I just had the same discussion with Mehran at Sorasound.com (the current distributor) the other day. I had also thought the brand name was pronounced "Z-Y-X" as separate letters. Mehran corrected me with "Zicks."

BTW, even though I only have about six hours on the new ZYX R100 Yatra, I am really enjoying it. In my system, the cartridge "sparkles." A tremendous amount of presence and clarity to the music... particularly in the mids and highs. I'm looking forward to hearing the lower octaves open up.


roscoeiii

Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #32 on: 18 Aug 2013, 01:48 pm »
I just had the same discussion with Mehran at Sorasound.com (the current distributor) the other day. I had also thought the brand name was pronounced "Z-Y-X" as separate letters. Mehran corrected me with "Zicks."

BTW, even though I only have about six hours on the new ZYX R100 Yatra, I am really enjoying it. In my system, the cartridge "sparkles." A tremendous amount of presence and clarity to the music... particularly in the mids and highs. I'm looking forward to hearing the lower octaves open up.

Mehran is great.

In my experience ZYX has excellent bass, so I would expect the low end to open up.

Sonny

Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #33 on: 18 Aug 2013, 04:09 pm »
Very nice!  Sounds very alive and immediate.

BTW, for those not sure how to pronounce ZYX I spoke with the former importer, Tom Wu, a few years ago.  I had always thought the brand was Z-Y-X as the all-caps implies this (as does the definition of the letters above) but Tom said the Japanese owners/designers pronounce it 'Zicks'.  Go figure.  Thought I'd share.

It sure does...I think I miss it already!  The Shelter is on now, but have not had a chance to listen...

Will keep you posted.

Congrats Din!

Sonny

Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #34 on: 18 Aug 2013, 10:30 pm »
Man this Shelter 7000 is such a couple of steps above the 501 and 901 that it's so amazing!  I know that Shelter is know for certain characters, like the ZYX, to be transparent, fast and with stellar dynamics, but I tell you this 7000 has all of that and BODY, which is sometimes the criticism on the Shelters...and ZYX...

I think as this thing breaks in, I will really like it!  It's loaded at 50 ohms, same as the ZYX Airy 3 R-100 X SB was, man what a name for a cartridge!

More to come, hopefully I will have the house to myself soon to record it and post on YouTube! 

Bass is deep and voice is "lush", not Koetsu lush, and guitar, on Rickie Lee Jone's "Pop Pop" is snappy with body and tone!

 :thumb:   

Sonny

Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #35 on: 19 Aug 2013, 04:41 am »
As promised..here's the Shelter 7000 with the same Buxtehude...
eveything else being consistent...

ZYX Airy 3 R-1000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBI9DNITEzY&feature=youtu.be

VS

Shelter 7000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1T-laGdgaM&feature=youtu.be

What you you guys think?  Any audible differences?
If so, what are they?

blakep

Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #36 on: 19 Aug 2013, 09:43 pm »
Listening on cheesy computer speakers is definitely not definitive by any stretch of the imagination but I'll take the Shelter by a fairly wide margin. The Zyx sounds thin and screechy by comparison.

Sonny

Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #37 on: 19 Aug 2013, 09:47 pm »
Listening on cheesy computer speakers is definitely not definitive by any stretch of the imagination but I'll take the Shelter by a fairly wide margin. The Zyx sounds thin and screechy by comparison.

My thought too!  Also, recording it through a Canon camer ELPH 950IS is not ideal either, but you got to play with what you have, right?

Thanks for the feedback!

bside123

Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #38 on: 19 Aug 2013, 11:18 pm »
Listening on cheesy computer speakers is definitely not definitive by any stretch of the imagination but I'll take the Shelter by a fairly wide margin. The Zyx sounds thin and screechy by comparison.

My experience of the ZYX R100H Yatra, in real life, is anything BUT "thin and screechy." With only 10 hours of play, the Yatra has already gotten "bigger" with lots of dynamics from top to bottom. It is certainly hard to judge SQ performance via YouTube, via computer speakers, via a recording from a Canon camera... but in any case, I super appreciate Tuan's willingness to try and provide us a sample. Thanks!

Also, I have zero experience with Shelter cartridges... haven't even heard one! I've read lots about them but have no direct experience. More later, as the Yatra "breaks in."

neobop

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Re: ZYX In The House
« Reply #39 on: 20 Aug 2013, 02:04 am »
I listened to part of each of those two tube cuts earlier today and figured I had a bad connection or noise on my AC line.  I just revisited and also listened to something else as a reality check.

Trying to be diplomatic, I don't think these cuts are representative of much of anything.  Tuan, please get another digital set-up to record this stuff.

neo