Alpha's and RM40's at Gerry's (Turk)

Turk · « **Reply #60 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 01:13 am »

I am up for a rematch to get both speakers to sound their best.

Jerry

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #61 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 01:20 am »

From what I understand, switching the speaker sides will have less room interaction, better image focus... but you'd get a narrower soundstage, too.

The setup at Gary's has the speakers toed-in with the BG arrays on the outside. But there are acoustic treatments on the sides of the speakers, along with the back wall and corners.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #62 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 01:48 am »

I owe Wayne and Tyson a visit, so I'd be willing to show up personally if Turk will do some room treatment. Back and side walls to a depth of at least 8 ft and some ceiling stuff as well (3" or thicker Sonex is best) will eliminate most room nasties, and the bass traps can go in the corners where they do the most good (16-20" dia by full height are best, I use ASC).

Some will still prefer one system over the other since the Alphas and the RM40's are so different.

I think we're in agreement that the equipment is very good. The JC1's are very natural sounding (not etched at all) and are eloquent testimony to the peerless design skills of my colleague John Curl.

zybar · « **Reply #63 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 01:56 am »

How about an East Coast visit?

Would love to see what you would do in my room...

George

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #64 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 02:09 am »

I think you are doing just fine, George. You're happy, so I'm happy!

mgalusha · « **Reply #65 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 02:10 am »

I don't think the Parasounds are grainy and I know the other gear has been carefully chosen not to be sibilant or grainy. Other amps are available as well. Unless Jerry has sold them he owns a pair of Rogue M-120's. There is certainly no grain there although they don't have nearly the punch and bottom end control of the Parasounds.

zybar · « **Reply #66 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 02:14 am »

Quote from: Brian Cheney

I think you are doing just fine, George. You're happy, so I'm happy!

Very true!

But my guess is that I would be even happier after a visit.

George

zybar · « **Reply #67 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 02:28 am »

Turk,

I know you are trying to keep it on the small side, but if I flew out, think you could fit one more?

I have been meaning to visit Sean and this is a nice excuse for a quick couple days out there. I am really interested in hearing the Alphas and meeting you guys.

George

John Casler · « **Reply #68 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 04:42 am »

Hey Jerry,

As Danny said, your listening session might have been one of the best ever. I think I can only think of one other time that someone had heard the RM40 and the Alphas in the same room with the same electronics.

Sounds to me like room problems aside both speakers showed some great sonics.

I think both Danny's and Brian's suggestions of Toe in and maybe switching the speakers should help the Alpha's (theoretically since I have never heard them)

But with your room's Bass problem you might want to try some LENRDS (Low-End Node Reduction Devices)

If you used some of Ethan Winer's Traps and or some LENRD's in corners and floor/wall and ceiling wall boundaries, you might find smoother bass response.

As shown in this photo in all the corners and maybe a couple spaced along the floor and ceiling.

Also strategically placed "male" broadband diffusers might help. (see below, male is on the left) The females can be cut in half and used as mini LENRDS (Low-End Node Reduction Devices)

I have a room that appears to be of similar dimensions, which we will be working on soon.

ctviggen · « **Reply #69 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 11:44 am »

Any idea where to get the Low-End Node Reduction Devices? Never mind -- found them at music123.com. Eeek! $220 for 16 feet. Between these, Real Traps, and Eight Nerve stuff, I can easily see my room costing me a few thousand, as I too have a beam that separates my room.

meilankev · « **Reply #70 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 11:47 am »

John/Jerry,

If you look on the Auralex site (www.auralex.com), here's some pertinent info (summarized):

LENRD Bass Traps are only effective down to 75 Hz (and I seem to remember reading somewhere that their effectiveness begins to really wane starting below 130 Hz).

Instead of the LENRDs, they recommend using their Venus Bass Traps if:
- your speakers can reproduce audio signals below 75 Hz
- your Listening Room is greater than ~ 1200 cu ft

They claim the Venus Traps are effective down to 40 Hz.

I hope this helps,
Kevin

zybar · « **Reply #71 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 01:04 pm »

Bob,

Having been to my place and seeing all the treatments, I can tell you it is essential.

There is no way I could get the sound I am getting without proper room treatment.

It's kind of weird that audiophiles are ok with spending hundreds or thousands on cables, ic's, cones, etc... but not comfortable treating a room where you can easily hear and prove that improvements are taking place.

I would be happy to come up and help you with setting up some room treatments.

George

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #72 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 01:31 pm »

Check out acoustic foams at foambymail.com. They have all sorts and sizes. Their prices are very reasonable.

zybar · « **Reply #73 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 02:26 pm »

For an even better deal, buy your foam off ebay.

Foambymail sells at half off their retail price on ebay.

Just do a search on acoustic foam.

George

Danny Richie · « **Reply #74 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 02:30 pm »

Here is another cheap deal on what looks like some really nice room treatment.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3278&item=3736188385&rd=1

John Casler · « **Reply #75 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 02:56 pm »

Quote from: meilankev

John/Jerry,

If you look on the Auralex site (www.auralex.com), here's some pertinent info (summarized):

LENRD Bass Traps are only effective down to 75 Hz (and I seem to remember reading somewhere that their effectiveness begins to really wane starting below 130 Hz).

Instead of the LENRDs, they recommend using their Venus Bass Traps if:
- your speakers can reproduce audio signals below 75 Hz
- your Listening Room is greater than ~ 1200 cu ft

They claim the Venus Traps are effective down to 40 Hz.

I hope this helps,
Kevin

Kevin is very correct about this, and that is why I also suggested the traps from Ethan Winer which go lower, but the Venus Bass traps (for those interested) look like this:

and this:

ctviggen · « **Reply #76 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 03:25 pm »

George,

I definitely have sound treatments on my list of things to get. Right now, though, I need to get my RM40s/RM30C. Then, I'm on the list to test an Ack Dack. If I like the Ack, I'll buy it. With my current speakers, my room sounds pretty good. However, the RM40s are going to up the bass and put the mids/mid bass nearer the ceiling. So, like in the room we've been discussing, I'm also going to run into problems. I still need to buy a tool to analyze my room so that I can figure out what my problems are. Then, I'll start investing in room treatments. So, feel free to come over any time!

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #77 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 04:25 pm »

Just use the Knauf Fiberglass products as they perform better at lower frequncies and cost much less per sqft of coverage.

http://www.knauffiberglass.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=prd.dspProdDetail&ID=12

azryan · « **Reply #78 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 06:10 pm »

I second 'heavystarch'. Compressed fiberglass is cheap and most effective.
Cover with a light cloth to match your room and you're golden.

pjchappy · « **Reply #79 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 06:22 pm »

I'm looking for more room treatments, too.

Someone said, I think Nathan, that the Foambymail stuff is not cut very cleanly. . .please correct me if I'm wrong.

What are some relatively cheap, yet somewhat attractive looking, solutions?

Thanks!

p