NC400 WIMA capacitor modification - polyester to polypropylene

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #160 on:** 28 Oct 2013, 10:03 pm »

Things are not always as they appear. I assumed all the .68 caps were oriented the same way. I am just now doing my first mod using all .33 modded Wimas and just now realized that the caps in the middle are turned around. At least they should be.....meaning....the ground is on the inductor side on the outside pair of caps but the middle cap has the ground pointing towards the ourside of the module. So, no one has heard the totality of this mod yet. The only person who has tried it has the middle set of caps backwards. It will be interesting to hear his findings if he turns them around (so the outside foil is now to ground like all the other two stacks). It may not make much difference since most are in the correct direction....but who knows?....except those that listen....they are the only ones that know.

#7 times infinity!

cab · « **Reply #161 on:** 28 Oct 2013, 10:14 pm »

Here's my prediction: veils will be lifted, the soundstage will fill the room, and he will stay up all night playing his entire music collection, hearing things he has never heard before....

jtwrace · « **Reply #162 on:** 28 Oct 2013, 10:15 pm »

Quote from: cab on 28 Oct 2013, 10:14 pm

Here's my prediction: veils will be lifted, the soundstage will fill the room, and he will stay up all night playing his entire music collection, hearing things he has never heard before....

Where are the measurements? Oh, that's right, can't do that.

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #163 on:** 28 Oct 2013, 10:17 pm »

I put #7 times infinity. That means all objectivists concerns are already considered and heard and are already disregarded....he he.

The most "predictable" thing is what you guys always say. Its always the same.

cab · « **Reply #164 on:** 28 Oct 2013, 11:19 pm »

Quote from: Ric Schultz on 28 Oct 2013, 10:17 pm

The most "predictable" thing is what you guys always say. Its always the same.

Yeah, of course, it's called a conditioned response.

Julf · « **Reply #165 on:** 29 Oct 2013, 06:46 am »

Quote from: Ric Schultz on 28 Oct 2013, 10:03 pm

except those that listen....they are the only ones that know.

I totally agree. Only the ones who listen, under controlled, double blind conditions, will know.

Rclark · « **Reply #166 on:** 29 Oct 2013, 08:22 am »

Modding the caps on an nc400. Isn't that a bit like trying wooden carriage wheels on an F1 car?

jtwrace · « **Reply #167 on:** 29 Oct 2013, 11:08 am »

Quote from: Rclark on 29 Oct 2013, 08:22 am

Modding the caps on an nc400. Isn't that a bit like trying wooden carriage wheels on an F1 car?

No, it's like bringing the F1 car to the local tire store for tires after "the team" has handed you a track ready car.

cab · « **Reply #168 on:** 29 Oct 2013, 12:49 pm »

Quote from: jtwrace on 29 Oct 2013, 11:08 am

No, it's like bringing the F1 car to the local tire store for tires after "the team" has handed you a track ready car.

No, it's like bringing the engine from the F1 car to the local mechanic for a tune up after the engine building team has just finished tuning it....

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #169 on:** 30 Oct 2013, 01:44 am »

Its a grand meeting of the objectivists....how perfect.

Why don't you take your act over to the tube tweakers forums....that would be funny. You guys would be laughed right off the forum. All those guys talk about is what brand of tube, cap, resistor, wire, tube socket, etc. to use to make the amp "sound" a certain way. Of course, on this forum we have the perfect amp that has .0001 percent distortion, one milliohm output impedance and over 120db dynamic range.....so, therefore it is perfect.....he he. Of course, everyone who has heard the NC1200 (which measures the same) says it sounds better in every way. And now you have Bruno using "better sounding caps" in the Mola Mola amps....oh God, what are you guys going to do? The NC400 is perfect, but the NC1200 is more perfect? and the Mola Mola with Bruno approved caps is even more perfect? That simply cannot be!!!.....the NC400 is absolutely perfect and we all know it. he he.

No, its like taking a stock BMW to your local hot rod place and making it do 50 more horsepower and put on better tires and fix the suspension and remove the steering wheel with air bag and use a tiny steering wheel and put a Recaro seat in it. Hmmmm....exactly what a friend of mine did. He said it was so fast around corners after that it scared him to death. I guess you guys are scared of really burning rubber. When I was a teenager we used to go down to Colorado Blvd. in Pasadena and yell "stocker" at passing cars. Guys would feel so insulted they would turn around and chase you down to pound you into the ground. I guess you guys don't mind being called "stockers". Enjoy your stock "perfect" equipment. But if its so perfect, why do you keep coming here to bother people? I mean.....you have reached heaven. Play those harps boys!

Rclark · « **Reply #170 on:** 30 Oct 2013, 02:33 am »

That's not it. We're saying it's far more likely with this tech that it's the design here that is not fundamentally reliant on caps, such as an older technology. The NC1200 might sound better for a variety of reasons but I highly highly doubt that caps chosen are a main factor at all.

waver · « **Reply #171 on:** 30 Oct 2013, 02:40 am »

Quote from: Ric Schultz on 30 Oct 2013, 01:44 am

No, its like taking a stock BMW to your local hot rod place and making it do 50 more horsepower and put on better tires and fix the suspension and remove the steering wheel with air bag and use a tiny steering wheel and put a Recaro seat in it.

50 more horsepower? ... what a nonsens!

barrows · « **Reply #172 on:** 30 Oct 2013, 03:17 am »

Quote from: Rclark on 30 Oct 2013, 02:33 am

That's not it. We're saying it's far more likely with this tech that it's the design here that is not fundamentally reliant on caps, such as an older technology. The NC1200 might sound better for a variety of reasons but I highly highly doubt that caps chosen are a main factor at all.

Rclark: I would tend to agree, except that Mola Mola specifically notes the output filter capacitors… Personally, I would suspect that the unique (completely different from that in the OEM NC-1200 module) input stage would be more responsible for the sound quality of the Mola Mola amplifiers.

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #173 on:** 30 Oct 2013, 03:25 am »

Sorry, the passive filter on the output of a class D amp literally defines the level of transparency that can come through. This includes the inductor, of course. Everything has a sound. Sorry but true. No free lunch here. I changed the inductor on the older Hypex modules to a custom litz wire wound donut. Sounded better than the stock inductor. The inductor that is in the Ncore is a litz inductor (look real close). This is good! Even a Zobel network on the output of any amp will add its sound. I have changed these parts many times on amps with the better parts giving the better sound.

barrows · « **Reply #174 on:** 30 Oct 2013, 03:25 am »

Quote from: cab on 29 Oct 2013, 12:49 pm

No, it's like bringing the engine from the F1 car to the local mechanic for a tune up after the engine building team has just finished tuning it....

WRONG: the NC-400 modules are mass produced parts, not finely honed, totally custom, F1 engines. NC-400 modules incorporate many compromises in parts quality, design, and manufacture in order to make them cost effective in the marketplace for consumers.
If one wants to make an accurate analogy between an F1 engine and an audio component, one is going to be considering cost no object designs produced in very limited quantities, without regard to costs: the Light Harmonic Da Vinci Dac comes to mind, but even that is produced in numbers far beyond those of F1 engines, and is for sale to consumers, unlike F1 engines.

Rclark · « **Reply #175 on:** 30 Oct 2013, 03:27 am »

Nc1200's are a $12,000 amp. Higher end caps, because, why not at that price. I just don't think caps are a fundamental reason for the performance of the nc1200, nor do I think putting fancy caps in an nc400 would make any improvements.

Changing caps in a tube amp or a big SS class A amp makes perfect sense, not here.

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #176 on:** 30 Oct 2013, 03:47 am »

Thinking something does not make it so. What did the person who started this thread say? He listened. He A/Bed two different stereo modules.....one modded and one not. What he said is truth....it is based on direct experience. His truth. If your truth is based on what you "think" then it is has no basis in reality....reality is what you experience.

Rclark · « **Reply #177 on:** 30 Oct 2013, 04:52 am »

That's fine, I just don't buy it.

waver · « **Reply #178 on:** 30 Oct 2013, 10:58 am »

Quote from: barrows on 30 Oct 2013, 03:25 am

WRONG: the NC-400 modules are mass produced parts, not finely honed, totally custom, F1 engines. NC-400 modules incorporate many compromises in parts quality, design, and manufacture in order to make them cost effective in the marketplace for consumers.

sure, the NC400 incorporates many compromises in parts quality, but Bruno has the outrageousness to call the NC400 a "no-compromise power amp module for audiophile DIY projects"???
Sorry, but i'll take Bruno's word anytime over yours!

Please tell me somthing: you made changes many times and you got "better" sound. "Better" compared to what? To some "objective reference" or to your personal liking?

OzarkTom · « **Reply #179 on:** 30 Oct 2013, 11:09 am »

Of course, if you cannot afford it, you are going to deny it. The NC 1200's sounded quite a bit better than Jason's NC400 tour amps going around in my system. So how many companies were using NC400's at RMAF rhis year? Zero? Why, if they are the best?