[rollo]

    Any experience with breakers ? Are there better breakers available for Audio applications then standard issue ? Mine are 40 years old.



charles

[Big Red Machine]

None that I am aware of.  They are designed to strict standards for elecrical safety w/o consideration for us Audiophools.  yOU'RE STUCK WITH THE BRAND WHICH FITS YOUR PANEL ANYWAYS UNLESS OU ADD A SUB-PANEL of another brand.  caps lock!

[Wayner]

Then there is the old motto: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.....

 

[Phil A]

    Any experience with breakers ? Are there better breakers available for Audio applications then standard issue ? Mine are 40 years old.



charles

Charles, there was a change in electrical codes around 1999 to arc fault breakers - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fault_circuit_interrupter  When my current house was built in 1997, I had them run a separate outlet on its own breaker in addition to what was there.  In the new place I just closed on in April (but won't be in there until early next year), I was stuck with the new electrical code and the breakers are more expensive (wonder what influence that had ) and they have a tendency to trip and they have learned that putting things on separate circuits does seem to mitigate that problem.  As a result, I have 300 amp electrical service, including two 15 amp circuits and one 20 amp circuit, each on a single receptacle for the main system (or basically 50 amp service plus whatever receptacles are already there on another circuit).  You may not even be able to easily find circuit breakers for something 40 years old.  I know when I did the basement (around 2004), the electrician had a slight tough time finding what was need for my box.  Like everything else, stuff may not be supported forever.  So it could be a problem that to change things, you may need an entirely new service and the new breakers.  So unless there was an issue, I'd tend to leave it alone.

[Speedskater]

As pointed out above:

a] You can only put breakers in your breaker box (panel board) that the manufacture lists as suitable for that model panel board.
b] If you replace the old breaker box (panel board), you may have to meet other newer code rules.
c] AFCI (Arc Flash Circuit Interrupter) breakers can be a pain in the backside.  They have a mind of their own about what is a dangerous arc and turn of the circuit.  In a new house with all new appliances they seem to do OK, but then modern wiring doesn't have many of the arc-flash variety.
d] GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) can get unhappy with some power conditioners.
e] In the US, old 1960's Federal Pacific circuit breakers should be replaced.

[Phil A]

Also, if you are talking about 40 years old, please be careful if you have aluminum wiring.  It probably was used around that time frame give or take.  I moved into a house in 1984 that was about 13 years old and the first thing I did with the aluminum wiring was to have an electrician pig tail them.  Aluminum tends to be more brittle and you get arcing and in some cases caused fires so pig tailing involves cutting the wires shorter so that they are inside the electrical box (and if there is an arc it is contained inside the electrical box) and replacing the part attached to the receptacle with copper.

[Folsom]

There is a rather expensive option that was designed to use audiophile fuses. I forget the name, it's a German company I discovered after a prolonged search session.

There are plenty of old breakers that just don't seem to turn off when they should. Maybe it's just me but it seems like houses use to burn down more often from electrical fires than they do now. (good AC receptacles is to prevent this as well, since some very old sockets are fire hazards)

[polyglot]

You are probably referring to AHP Klangmodul 2 or 3 (silver or gold) that retails $150-200. Some on Audiogon has tried them (check with Elberoth or Elberoth2 there).  It may not fit into the (US) panel.

Cry'od breakers are worth a try. My next project would be a sub panel just for the music systems.

[jneutron]

Cry'od breakers are worth a try.

Only if it can be proven to an NRTL that the temperature excursion does not compromise the safety and operation of the device.

There are so many parts of a breaker that can be compromised by the temperature excursion.  All the plastics, and all the metals.

We trust these devices with our lives.

jn

[jneutron]

There are plenty of old breakers that just don't seem to turn off when they should. 

All breakers should be cycled every year or so.  They do take a set.

jn

[Big Red Machine]

Only if it can be proven to an NRTL that the temperature excursion does not compromise the safety and operation of the device.

There are so many parts of a breaker that can be compromised by the temperature excursion.  All the plastics, and all the metals.

We trust these devices with our lives.

jn

I agree.  I do not recommend cryo breakers.  They are mechanical products inside and designed to work as shipped.  If you change the alignment of molecules in the metallic components they may not work as designed.

[jneutron]

I agree.  I do not recommend cryo breakers.  They are mechanical products inside and designed to work as shipped.  If you change the alignment of molecules in the metallic components they may not work as designed.

The possibility of stress cracks within the metals and injection molded plastics is there.  Taking them to nitrogen temps can cause crack propagation.

It is not an easy task to design a part such that performance after 77k exposure is guaranteed.  Breakers are NEVER designed for that temperature excursion.

jn

[kenreau]

I retrofitted three dedicated audio circuits for my system ~5 years ago.  I bought 3 new circuit breakers and sprayed some Caig Deoxit inside the mechanism and switched it back and forth a number of times and also buffed up the outside metal mounting tangs.  I then sprayed a little Caig ProGold in them and on the bare wire ends going in the screw terminals.  Probably time to clean them up again, or at least cycle them a few times.

Kenreau

[jea48]

Also, if you are talking about 40 years old, please be careful if you have aluminum wiring.  It probably was used around that time frame give or take.  I moved into a house in 1984 that was about 13 years old and the first thing I did with the aluminum wiring was to have an electrician pig tail them.  Aluminum tends to be more brittle and you get arcing and in some cases caused fires so pig tailing involves cutting the wires shorter so that they are inside the electrical box (and if there is an arc it is contained inside the electrical box) and replacing the part attached to the receptacle with copper.

Phil,

Do you know how the electrician pigtailed the copper wire to the AL, aluminum, wire? Copper hates AL wire with a passion.  Did he use an approved connector?

[jea48]

    Any experience with breakers ? Are there better breakers available for Audio applications then standard issue ? Mine are 40 years old.



charles

Charles,

Do you know the manufacture of the panel? Square D QO load centers were around 40 years ago. A very good panel with copper bus bars and good reliable breakers.
But so were FPE, Zinsco, and Sylvania, electrical panels.
FPE was sued out of existence because of electrical fires caused by the failure of their breakers to trip open due to an overload or short circuit event.

Frank Adams was another one very popular in the day in commercial and industrial buildings.

So if you have a Square D QO style panel you still have a good load center electrical panel. If you have an FPE, Zinsco, or Sylvania, I would think about doing an upgrade. I personally would stay away from a load center panel that uses AL bus.


 http://www.electrical-forensics.com/EDP/EDP-Fires.html

[jtwrace]

jea48


Are you in the electrical business?  If so, what part?

[Phil A]

Phil,

Do you know how the electrician pigtailed the copper wire to the AL, aluminum, wire? Copper hates AL wire with a passion.  Did he use an approved connector?

Was to a house I sold in 1985.  It was aluminum to copper, he used a specialized connector for the pigtail and also some type of thick fluid (don't recall what it was)

[jea48]

jea48


Are you in the electrical business?  If so, what part?

jtwrace,

No, retired.

I  have 40+ years in the commercial/industrial electrical industry.
Jim

[jtwrace]

thanks.