[budcook]

I have a question about Interconnects.  My BDA-2 has only one balanced output but I prefer the sound of balanced cables (all else being equal).  I've upgraded my system so that I have balanced Cardas IC's from my BDA-2 to the BHA-1 to the Sennheiser HD-800.

I want to have balanced cables from the BDA-2 to the BP-26 to the 4BSST2. 

Here's the question... supposing i put a Cardas RCA to XLR adaptor on the BDA-2 end of a balanced Cardas Clear cable and plug it into one of the balanced inputs of the BP-26.  What is the result?  Is it unbalanced into the BP-26.  Would there be any advantage doing this than if I simply used a single ended cable from the BDA-2 to the preamp?

Thanks in advance.

Bud

[FullRangeMan]

What makes a interconect cable balanced is the ground wire(the 3º pin) which are absent in the regular rca cable.

[budcook]

What makes a cable balanced is the ground wire(the 3º pin) which are absent in the regular rca cable.

Actually, I want to use a balanced cable and convert the source end to RCA using a Cardas adaptor.  I don't know what I am accomplishing doing this.  Will I have the extra gain that the balanced input of the BP-26 provides?

Bud

[budcook]

It looks like I've found my answer.  If either end of a balanced cable is plugged into an unbalanced input, it becomes unbalanced. 

I guess I'll have to manually switch the balanced output from the DAC between the preamp and the headphone amp or else decide which is more important, speakers or headphones.

Manually switching will save me having to buy another expensive cable.

Bud

[FullRangeMan]

It looks like I've found my answer.  If either end of a balanced cable is plugged into an unbalanced input, it becomes unbalanced. 

I guess I'll have to manually switch the balanced output from the DAC between the preamp and the headphone amp or else decide which is more important, speakers or headphones.

Manually switching will save me having to buy another expensive cable.

Bud

You would confirm this result with Mr.Tanner, as I unknow the BP26.
Cheers

[Shadorne]

I have a question about Interconnects.  My BDA-2 has only one balanced output but I prefer the sound of balanced cables (all else being equal).  I've upgraded my system so that I have balanced Cardas IC's from my BDA-2 to the BHA-1 to the Sennheiser HD-800.

I want to have balanced cables from the BDA-2 to the BP-26 to the 4BSST2. 

Here's the question... supposing i put a Cardas RCA to XLR adaptor on the BDA-2 end of a balanced Cardas Clear cable and plug it into one of the balanced inputs of the BP-26.  What is the result?  Is it unbalanced into the BP-26.  Would there be any advantage doing this than if I simply used a single ended cable from the BDA-2 to the preamp?

Thanks in advance.

Bud

Balanced cables have no particular sound neither do RCA for that matter. If one sounds better than the other then it is probably audio equipment quality related. Often you can get a lower noise floor by using balanced cables and balanced audio equipment. They are called balanced because both signal wires are the same and they should both have the same high impedance to ground. In the case of RCA, one wire is closer to ground and this imbalance can spell trouble for ground loops. Furthermore the lack of proper shielding on RCA can make the cables more susceptible to RF/EM noise.

Balanced cables are cheap - just go to your local musicians store.

Anyone who cares about S/N and noise floor should prefer balanced to cheap consumer RCA. Balanced becomes more important the more equipment you have, the longer your cable runs, if you switch out equipment a lot or have house wiring that has ground issues.

There is a lot of information here

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/an003.pdf

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/generic%20seminar.pdf

[Shadorne]

Balanced cables have no particular sound neither do RCA for that matter. If one sounds better than the other then it is probably audio equipment quality related. Often you can get a lower noise floor by using balanced cables and balanced audio equipment. They are called balanced because both signal wires are the same and they should both have the same high impedance to ground. In the case of RCA, one wire is closer to ground and this imbalance can spell trouble for ground loops. Furthermore the lack of proper shielding on RCA can make the cables more susceptible to RF/EM noise.

Balanced cables are cheap - just go to your local musicians store.

Anyone who cares about S/N and noise floor should prefer balanced to cheap consumer RCA. Balanced becomes more important the more equipment you have, the longer your cable runs, if you switch out equipment a lot or have house wiring that has ground issues.

There is a lot of information here

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/an003.pdf

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/generic%20seminar.pdf

[budcook]

I looked at the schematic of the BP-26 and once past the input differential amplifier, it doesn't matter if the input is balanced or single-ended.

I don't have a schematic of the BHA-1 but it may be balanced all the way through and that would increase the gain of the amp.  I have to use the gain switch on the BHA-1 to obtain about the same gain with single-ended as I do with balanced.

So in theory, there should be no advantage in balanced over single-ended, at least not with the BP-26.  On the other hand, some of us clearly prefer having our HD-800's being fed from source to headphones with balanced cables.

I'm going to use the balanced cable with the BHA-1 and a single ended cable with the preamp.  I do my serious listening of classical music with headphones.

Bud

[Shadorne]

I looked at the schematic of the BP-26 and once past the input differential amplifier, it doesn't matter if the input is balanced or single-ended.

So in theory, there should be no advantage in balanced over single-ended, at least not with the BP-26.  On the other hand, some of us clearly prefer having our HD-800's being fed from source to headphones with balanced cables.

Bud

Agreed but the differential amplifier or input buffer will help eliminate picking up signals from ground loops between equipment - it will reject common signals! So it does make a difference in instances where you have hum or hiss caused by ground loops or even RF/EM signals. Equipment need not be built fully balanced all the way through to provide benefits of balanced XLR connections. Running higher line level signals also has the advantage in that you keep the audio signal further away from the noise floor of the line level equipment.

[James Tanner]

Agreed but the differential amplifier or input buffer will help eliminate picking up signals from ground loops between equipment - it will reject common signals! So it does make a difference. Equipment need not be built fully balanced all the way through to provide benefits of balanced XLR connections.

CORRECT !!!!

james

[James Tanner]

Wrote this "Balancing Act"  years ago:

http://bryston.com/PDF/newsletters/Bryston_Newsletter_V1_1.pdf

james

[rmurray]

I looked at the schematic of the BP-26 and once past the input differential amplifier, it doesn't matter if the input is balanced or single-ended.

I don't have a schematic of the BHA-1 but it may be balanced all the way through and that would increase the gain of the amp.  I have to use the gain switch on the BHA-1 to obtain about the same gain with single-ended as I do with balanced.

So in theory, there should be no advantage in balanced over single-ended, at least not with the BP-26.  On the other hand, some of us clearly prefer having our HD-800's being fed from source to headphones with balanced cables.

I'm going to use the balanced cable with the BHA-1 and a single ended cable with the preamp.  I do my serious listening of classical music with headphones.

Bud  There is certainly an advantage with the BP25 using the lallanced mode.

[brucek]

I have a question about Interconnects.  My BDA-2 has only one balanced output but I prefer the sound of balanced cables (all else being equal).  I've upgraded my system so that I have balanced Cardas IC's from my BDA-2 to the BHA-1 to the Sennheiser HD-800.

I want to have balanced cables from the BDA-2 to the BP-26 to the 4BSST2.

Why not simply use an XLR splitter cable from the one balanced XLR output of the BDA-2 and feed both the BHA-1 and the BP-26 XLR inputs?

brucek

[budcook]

Why not simply use an XLR splitter cable from the one balanced XLR output of the BDA-2 and feed both the BHA-1 and the BP-26 XLR inputs?

brucek

The only reason I wanted to use balanced cables is because of what I perceived to be better sound.  I have no reason to do it because of noise, ground loops, etc.

I'm afraid just about any splitter arrangement would degrade the sound compared to what I have now. 

I just ordered the best single-ended cable Cardas makes and I'll use that with the preamp.  I doubt the downstream components I have will expose any problems with using a single ended input on the BP-26.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestion.

Bud

[budcook]

Bud  There is certainly an advantage with the BP25 using the lallanced mode.

That's what I thought when I replaced my nearly new BP-17 with a new BP-26

When I finish upgrading the downstream cables to my speakers, then I'll know better if it does. 

Bud

[Shadorne]

The only reason I wanted to use balanced cables is because of what I perceived to be better sound.  I have no reason to do it because of noise, ground loops, etc.

Bud

Well if it sounds perceptively better then it would most likely be due to reduced noise floor, ground loops etc. Technically given the same set of electronics, it really should not sound different. If it does then I would recommend further investigation - either you did not match volume levels precisely when doing A versus B or  you may have a problem with your equipment, cables or both. Certainly worth investigating as you should not be hearing differences in a situation where everything is working correctly.

[budcook]

Well if it sounds perceptively better then it would most likely be due to reduced noise floor, ground loops etc. Technically given the same set of electronics, it really should not sound different. If it does then I would recommend further investigation - either you did not match volume levels precisely when doing A versus B or  you may have a problem with your equipment, cables or both. Certainly worth investigating as you should not be hearing differences in a situation where everything is working correctly.

It might be sound level although when I did the A/B test with the BHA-1, I changed the gain switch to more accurately match the sound level between the two cables.

I should say that with most music I don't hear a difference but with classical music I've listened to for more than 30 years, I just seem to enjoy it more when listening to it with a balanced cable.  Cables are Cardas Clear and the BDA-2 is being fed from my BCD-1 with a Cardas Lightning 15 digital cable.  When using the BDP-2 as a source, the connection to the DAC is Cardas new Clear AES cable.

The connection to the Sennheiser HD-800 is Cardas new balanced headphone cable.

Again, it may be the extra gain of the balanced input is making the difference but I don't just flip back and forth, I listen for long periods before switching. 

So for now, I'll buy the idea that there shouldn't be a difference in sound if the comparison is an apples to apples comparison.  I've just ordered more new Audio CD's so I'll stop worrying about hardware and try to enjoy the music.

Bud

[95Dyna]

Hi James,

I pm'd you about this question a couple months ago and I think you advised me to keep the balanced output from the BP26 to the 7B's and run the BP26 tape out to the BHA-1.  Correct me if I'm wrong and if not tell us what advantage this connection offers over a standard RCA out to the BHA-1.

Thanks

[James Tanner]

Hi James,

I pm'd you about this question a couple months ago and I think you advised me to keep the balanced output from the BP26 to the 7B's and run the BP26 tape out to the BHA-1.  Correct me if I'm wrong and if not tell us what advantage this connection offers over a standard RCA out to the BHA-1.

Thanks

Hi

This way anything going through the preamp can be heard on the headphones. Tape out also bypasses the volume control in the preamp.

James