[Diamond Dog]

Any moron that doesn't understand jazz most likely will not like Miles Davis

Go play your Abba and enjoy .

If Miles Davis was indeed the savior of jazz, he was trying to save it from being smothered by elitist attitudes like this. Classic example of failure to grasp the concept. If you're such a big fan of Miles, you must have really enjoyed going on this part of the trip with him, too...right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE8y7QAJ3ug

Please note that they are not performing in a little jazz dive in front of 3 old dudes who "get it "... because Miles knew that jazz would die if it wasn't dragged into the public forum again away from the purists. Jazz was originally a more populist art form and it needed to be that again, to gain exposure and new converts, to breathe and therefore to live on. And that bugged some people. Miles didn't care.

I think Miles Davis is OK. I also like Motorhead. And Merle Haggard. And Mahler. And in measured doses, even a little ABBA ( more in common with Mahler than Merle but still OK by me...).

 But that's just my opinion...and I could be wrong.

D.D.

[Photon46]

So five plus pages and the thread refuses to go away. Like Miles...
Just within the confines of this thread, you'll see him described as Miles the genius, the innovator, the God, the junkie, the pimp, the jerk. The epitome of "ego jazz " and the pacesetter that all the best players wanted to work with. The savior and the sell-out. All-time champ, all-time low. Miles the guy who kept jazz alive and the guy who symbolized " the loss of the need for nutritious music by the public " ( That statement ... wow...). And on and on it goes.

 But know this:  Miles mattered.

Love him or hate him or view him however you will, at any given moment there are more people talking about, thinking about and listening to Miles Davis than any other jazz artist. Even now, you can re-release another version of Kind Of Blue safe in the knowledge that you will draw customers, some to relive the experience yet again from some different angle real or perceived, others drawn to the flame by the legend, by the hype, by the referrals, by the magnet that is Miles. They still come.

Because Miles mattered...

D.D.

I try to do my best to stay far, far away from these sort of discussions because they always degenerate into name calling and immature denigrations of people with different aesthetic tastes. Hats off to D.Dog, your responses are relevant and informed. I agree with you on this; love him or hate him, he was a major force in jazz evolution.

[FullRangeMan]

the most studied jazz record period is Bitch's Brew. Why? Because it was a light year ahead of it's time.

Some Davis albums now sound dated and minilalist, he used to much the sordino/muted, it is passable for one song no more than it.
While Satchmo sound so fresh as ever.
But trumpet is a difficult instrument as violin, it is not for everyone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vD0dCj82D0
His band mates are virtuoses and it help his fame with the critics.

[arthur]

Yeah I too wanted to stay out of this one, but I don't feel right about not speaking up for such a legend as Miles. I actually like much of his later work best (except Doo--Bop). Pangaea. Agharta. Dark Magus... if you appreciate his work, each of these albums is a world in itself.

It's definitely not easy to digest. Neither is later Coltrane.

Both bravely ventured outside of the time and space allotted to them by so many machines, customs, $, glances, rolling eyes, clenched fists...

Of course no one expects anyone to be into any of it. But to "hate" it? Especially when it's not involuntary, constantly, shoved in your face like pop and holiday music?

If this is the case, you really gotta look into yourself and see how you have become this way.  Where else do such feelings take you and what does this do to the world around around you.

[jazzyguytheone]

Miles is a jazz icon and will always be my hero.I don't understand Bitches Brew as it is another vein of jazz that I don't understand but I love his earlier stuff and I admire the way he stayed in the limelight with the younger crowd.

[BobM]

Like any artist who evolves over time and tries to stay on the cutting edge ... they will keep some fans, lose others, and gain new ones. Myles changed rather drastically from youth to old age that it would be hard to fathom someone liking all of it, unless of course they were a "fan boy".

Personally, I can tolerate his be-bop phase, I love his ballads, I hate his Bitches Brew phase, and I find his electronic phase interesting to listen to (I was a child of the 70's).

[bradmorris1]

the word "HATE" is so strong, so provocative, but I guess that was the point here right?  I mean it did elicit 6 pages of commentary (and counting).  Still I really find it hard to understand how a jazz fan (I'm assuming the poster is a jazz fan) could hate a true jazz genius and icon like Miles Davis.

[James Romeyn]

Some Davis albums now sound dated and minilalist, he used to much the sordino/muted, it is passable for one song no more than it.
While Satchmo sound so fresh as ever.
But trumpet is a difficult instrument as violin, it is not for everyone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vD0dCj82D0
His band mates are virtuoses and it help his fame with the critics.

This best summarizes my feelings about Davis' musicianship.  I'm impressed it's so brief that so fully and accurately describes Davis' work and that of his "band mates."  Bravo. 

An old audiophile friend Mike Mindlin used to say he should have stuck with his trumpet playing when he was young, implying he could have been a great jazz musician.  I suppose that's more palatable to one self than admitting it's hard as heck and perseverance was lacking.   

[James Romeyn]

If Miles Davis was indeed the savior of jazz, he was trying to save it from being smothered by elitist attitudes like this. Classic example of failure to grasp the concept. If you're such a big fan of Miles, you must have really enjoyed going on this part of the trip with him, too...right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE8y7QAJ3ug

Please note that they are not performing in a little jazz dive in front of 3 old dudes who "get it "... because Miles knew that jazz would die if it wasn't dragged into the public forum again away from the purists. Jazz was originally a more populist art form and it needed to be that again, to gain exposure and new converts, to breathe and therefore to live on. And that bugged some people. Miles didn't care.

I think Miles Davis is OK. I also like Motorhead. And Merle Haggard. And Mahler. And in measured doses, even a little ABBA ( more in common with Mahler than Merle but still OK by me...).

 But that's just my opinion...and I could be wrong.

D.D.

Nomination for Chairperson, AC Board of Master Music Critics! 

Second? 

[jazzyguytheone]

Bitches Brew changed his profile in many ways. Before Bitches Brew he was an ideal bopper of the 50s and 60s.I enjoyed his performances when he appeared at Birdland when I was a kid. I bought his records and enjoyed them but I couldn't understand or fathom Bitches Brew.

[mcgsxr]

I don't love a lot of his works, but for me his Freddie Freeloader is a top 10 Jazz fav.

[jimdgoulding]

Well, I think Miles wanted to stay in the vanguard of jazz (huge ego) and if he didn't change, he would likely have been yesterday's news.  Besides, I believe I read somewhere that his contract with Columbia made it mandatory for so many records and Miles was not the kind of musician, imo, to repeat himself.  Miles' Kind of Blue, and before the avant garde movement, of which he was actually very critical, is still fine listening.  Before that he had some excellent dates on the Prestige label.  He was a superb ballad player and that's in evidence on some of those.  A personal favorite is Miles in Europe on Columbia which introduced very young phenom drummer Tony Williams.  It flies!  As does Miles in Tokyo, also from Columbia.  I know AC member Elizabeth loves Bitches Brew.  I must give this its due and listen soon.  Repeat, Miles was a wonderful ballad player but yer gonna have to go back aways to appreciate that. 

[Cheeseboy]

I saw the Ron Carter Quartet two weeks ago.  All I can say is WOW!  How could anyone not make history with a guy playing bass like that?

[rockadanny]

Don't be a hater! Buy my Miles CD box on sale right here on AC!   

[ricko01]

The "problem" with Jazz and many of its iconic artists is that you cant pin them down.

Some lived inside a traditional band format (such Dave Brubeck) but many were just ships in the night that crossed paths briefly.

Someone like Dizzy doesnt have a traditional discography, the same with Miles, Coltrane etc.

So when you critique any album by these jazz nomads and you just cant consider the guy whose name is highlighed on the cover... cause the album will be a collaboration, a fusion of ideas and moods that all the players present would contribute to.

You can hate the Beatles as a collective because they were a band with stable membership, but to hate Miles (as an example) means to a high degree you must also hate the other giants he worked with... and thats a big step.

Peter

[charmerci]

For years, as a jazz fan, there was much about MD's music that I just didn't like and couldn't listen to - and to this day, I still don't....on some of his albums. He did so much and with such a variety that I am frankly surprised that a jazz fan can't like something that he did.

His more mainstream offerings, Cookin'/Workin'/Steamin'/Relaxin' With Miles Davis (if you don't mind Coltrane), Bag's Groove, Quiet Nights or Kind of Blue are very listenable for the average jazz fan.

For a while, what I would do is simply buy albums of the Miles Davis' group without Miles, e.g. Red Garland.

[CSI]

Like many long time Miles fans this thread caught my eye and I read through most of it. Then went back to read the original starter complaint. Being pretty old, my first exposure to Miles was the (then) just released Kind of Blue. It was a bestseller then and, amazingly, has kept it up for decade after decade. That being said, I initially had the same experience as Tyson. Couldn't get into it no matter how hard I tried. It was a 19th birthday gift from my mom (on a recommendation from her hairdresser, no less). So I gave up after a few spins and put it away and went back to my Brubeck and Mulligan LP's. Then a year later I tried again and then most certainly "got it". Haven't loved all of Miles music in the years since but no matter (maybe I'm lucky - I have the ability to ignore almost any musicians ego trips and hear what they have to say musically). So, I don't know. Maybe you never will get it. Or maybe when you are out of your teens you might try again.

[Tyson]

Wow, this thread has legs!   

[Diamond Dog]

Wow, this thread has legs!   

See what you've done! 

D.D.

[S Clark]

You never know about taste.  I hate the taste of liver, but absolutely love pate'.  A friend is a classical music aficionada, and can't stand Beethoven symphonies.  He is also a Lee Ritenour fan, whom I find uninteresting.