Dave's Cables Interconnect Cable Tour (New Tour With Speaker Cables: Page 10)

genjamon · « **Reply #140 on:** 2 Dec 2013, 04:46 pm »

I just wanted to post a quick follow-up. I reviewed the tour sets a while back and at the time was somewhat on the fence about how much value they offered. I wanted to report back that I have actually purchased two pair of DD and couldn't be happier. They have about 200 hours on them now and are starting to come into their own. Initially, they the sound wasn't as full as the tour pairs, but they're starting to come along.

It was actually really interesting, because Dave had actually sent me another tour set of DD and his D3 this time, and I still had those when the new cables arrived. I was able to directly A/B the tour broken-in DD and the brand new ones, so I have a good sense of what they go through from fresh to fully broken-in.

And so I should probably say a few words about the DD vs the D3. My experience was that the D3 had the same kind of tonal balance as the D2, but probably a tad bit more detail and refinement than the DD. I ended up going with the DD because it was really very close and the tonal balance of the DD is a better synergy with my system. But in a system where warmer and fuller bodied isn't necessary, but more lit up and resolved is valued and a bit more higher frequency energy is alright (compared with the DD anyway, since it's a bit on the warmer end of things), the D3 is truly exceptional.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #141 on:** 2 Dec 2013, 05:22 pm »

Thanks for the update genjamon.

So after testing on several systems the D3 is here, genjamon is exactly right that it is similar in character to the D2 but quite a bit better. The D3 provides an alternative to the DD for folks where the DD wasn't providing the proper synergy and tone for the system and the system's owner. From the feedback I have received everyone agrees the D3 is technically the better cable in terms of providing detail and resolution with a natural tone... but the DD is very close and provides a much different presentation that will work better with some systems.

It also seems like most people have found the DD to be better than the D2, and I wanted to offer something that has the same kind of characteristic sound of the D2 but with better tone, resolution and speed. The D3 provides this, and is probably a half step better than the DD, while the DD is a half step better than the D2.

The signal wire in the D3 is Neotech's brand new 99% silver / 1% gold alloy wire produced using the Ohno continuous casting process. Yes, this alloy has been used before by Mundorf and other cable companies, but it has not been produced using the OCC process until now. OCC wire is sonically FAR superior to conventional wire and this makes the new Neotech wire the best and most expensive wire for audio use on the planet right now.

Here's the world's smallest $2500 spool of wire...

And the D3 cable:

jtwrace · « **Reply #142 on:** 2 Dec 2013, 05:26 pm »

What gauge wire is the D3 and how many feet does a 1m cable require? The spool sticker above looks like 28 AWG. Yes?

DaveC113 · « **Reply #143 on:** 2 Dec 2013, 05:52 pm »

Quote from: jtwrace on 2 Dec 2013, 05:26 pm

What gauge wire is the D3 and how many feet does a 1m cable require? The spool sticker above looks like 28 AWG. Yes?

There is a 4-strand braid of 28g wire, so it comes to ~22 gauge aggregate. Because of the braiding you need an extra few inches too.

I have found the gauge of the signal wire effects the tonal balance of the cable, 22 gauge seems to be a sweet spot although pure silver needs a heavier gauge of wire to sound balanced.

shaizada · « **Reply #144 on:** 4 Dec 2013, 07:14 pm »

I've gotten the package! Luckily, I've been able to start listening to some of the cables and looks like we've started on a positive note (pun intended).

I am taking some notes and will post them later. What I AM enjoying right now is the simple ability to pin down the sound easily...really makes my life easier. More soon.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #145 on:** 9 Dec 2013, 09:23 pm »

Sounds good shaizada!

A few pics of the D3

DaveC113 · « **Reply #146 on:** 9 Dec 2013, 09:38 pm »

mdfoy wrote a great review of the DD/D3 on AN, I reposted it below:

As far as the Duelund 2.0 wire, I'm going to try it out for speaker cables since it's 2x as much silver as the 1.0 wire but for ICs there are only minor differences.

Quote

After participating in the Dave 2 and DD tour, I did some research on the Dueland wire and found out that there was a 2.0 version of the wire. I pinged Dave to get his opinion on the wire and Dave being Dave was way ahead of me and offered me the opportunity to check out the Duelund 2.0 and D3 cables. Below are my finding of these cables in my system. I had a mishap with my digital source and did the review of these cables on my vinyl source. Making lemonade out the these lemons, I got to check out the DD 2.0 and d3 exclusively in my system, switching tem on source to pre, and pre to amp.

Base configuration - set the baseline
Clarity Harvest II on source to pre, D2 on pre to amp, Coz SC

The Harvest II is a nice cable, it does nothing wrong, but cymbals can get a little more tinny than brassy. One of its strongest points is being very quiet due to the damping in the connectors. A nice cable, and we know about the D2, low noise floor, great tone, good detail.

System configuration 1 - DD.2 on source to pre, D2 on pre to amp, Coz SC

The DD allows all of the detail on the record come through and has very good coherence, and very clean. This is a configuration that I had on the a previous except the DD is now the DD.2. An example, Travels, Are you going with me, the level of articulation on the DD.2 exceeds the Harvest in all frequencies. This cut gets very busy, and all notes are clear and present with the DD.2. They get a little messy in the Harvest. mind you, this is only revealed after a listen with the DD.2. Sonic memory is fleeting, but I believe the DD.2 may be a little cleaner than the DD. This was revealed in the next configuration.

System configuration 2 - DD.2 on source to pre, D3 on pre to amp, Coz SC

This combination made me stop using my cables, and just switch position of the DD.2 and D3. It was made abundantly clear that the D2 was not up to par with the D3. The level of detail and flow from the DD.2 was allowed to flow unabated by the D2. There was detail, depth and weight exposed that was not there with the D2. Sketches of Spain, Solea, this is one of my favorite pieces of all time, at the crescendo, just a beautiful thing. The level of clarity allowed to be displayed by the D3 made the D2 appear broken. I won't say that the D3 smokes or any other colorful words to describe the difference between the two cables, but will just say that I am buying the D3.

System configuration 3 - D3 on source to pre, DD.2 on pre to amp, Coz SC

It is clear the that the presentations of the DD.2 and D3 are different. The level of detail provided by the DD.2 is pretty even with the D3, but the tonal weight of the cables is different. Herbie Hancock, River, Tea leaf Prophecy, Jonie Mitchell's voice had a warmth that the DD.2 did not, and the piano lower register had more weight. The bass on Cassandra Wilson, Blue Moon Daughter, Strange fruit was just more profound. These differences were not terrible or indicating a weakness, but different. The difference in presentation was further clarified to me when in the next configuration.

System configuration 4 - D3 source to pre, D2 on pre to amp, Coz SC

I brought the D2 back in the mix to check a thought I had on the differences between the DD.2 and D3. Everything in configuration 2 was right on, but the weight and tone was heavier with the D3 than with the DD.2. The same level of detail, body, tone, space, dynamics, space, noise floor, but more solid. The DD.2 would be a Vanessa Williams the singer, the D3 would be is Serena Williams, the tennis player, big, strong agile, and a brother likes a thick chick!

All said, in my system the DD.2 and D3 are both very nice cables and have a quality that is easily heard. Both improve upon the D2. How large an improvement is up to you and your system. In my system, the D3 provided a level of enjoyment that is hard to resist. My system was configured for clarity and accuracy. Choices were made to balance a touch warmer than neutral amp, with touch cleaner tube preamp, speakers are dead accurate. The D3 most clearly enhanced the sound. I am going for in my system. I need to figure out how I am going to get at least 2 pair.

Once again, I thank Dave for the opportunity to participate in the tour.

Music
Pat Metheny, Travels Live
Miles Davis/Gil Evans, Sketches of Spain
Herbie Hancock, River
Steely Dan, Greatest Hits
Cassandra Wilson, Blue Moon Daughter

My system
Amp Odyssey Khartago mono's ++
Pre Response Audio Bella-Max(Purity One prototype)
Speaker Salk HT1
Phono Heed Quasar
TT Thorens TD-125 MKII, Audiomods Series 5 tone arm, SAE 1000E

IC Pre to amp - Dave II
IC Phono to pre - Clarity Cable - Harvest
SP Coz bi-wire

Happy holidays to all!

DaveC113 · « **Reply #147 on:** 10 Dec 2013, 06:10 pm »

A few pics of a DD XLR cable:

ZLS · « **Reply #148 on:** 11 Dec 2013, 09:53 pm »

This is about the D3 cable.

Previously I have written about how much I enjoyed the DD cable ( I was part of the cable tour.)

Subsequent to that time, Dave asked if I would be interested in comparing the D3 to the DD.

Being an audiophile, and having a chance to hear something new, I of course said yes.

The difference between the DD and the D3 is that the D3 using wire that contains 1% gold.

Now when I first heard about this 1% gold wire (Audiophile Fuses) I thought that it was great marketing, and nothing more.

As is usually the case, I was wrong.

Comparing the two IC's, I found myself preferring the D3.

The difference, both got the timing right, but the tone of the D3 is exemplary.

There is a rightness to the tone that borders on beauty. Once again I fall back on the expression that it is listenable.

The test I use for tone is the Alto Saxophone of Johnny Hodges.

The cut I used is Jeeps Blues from Ellington At Newport. Not a great recorded CD, but with the D3 you can understand

how Johnny Hodges melts the crowd during his solo.

The D3 does not diminish the DD, which still stands as a great IC.

The D3 is an IC that both nails the timing and the tone.

jonbee · « **Reply #149 on:** 13 Dec 2013, 10:24 pm »

I've been listening to the DD and D3 for a couple of days now.
I had ordered 2 pair of DDs, but Dave allowed me to audition the D3 before shipping my order. I must say my findings really match the others' in most regards.
Dave's D3 cables differ from the DD in that instead of using the wonderful Duelund silver wire, are made from Neotech gold/ OCC silver wire- very expensive stuff, but in this case well worth the cost.
The D3 cable offers the classic benefits of fine silver-very transparent, detailed and focused, but are uncharacteristic of silver in that they are very dynamic, with rich tonality, amazingly powerful yet focused bass, and very impressive image density. A big sound, no thinness or brightness here. Very 3-d.
Compared to Dave's impressive DD: both are really top notch ICs, but with different presentations. DD is more laid back, with a soundstage deep behind the speakers, while D3 is bolder, a bit brighter, with good depth behind, but also well in front of the speakers. The D3 has very saturated tone, making the images very palpable.
Both the DD and the D3 are at home in the most resolving systems, but perhaps the DD is a better choice in bright or forward systems.
As I wrote in my earlier comments on the DD, I've used well over 100 pairs of ICs listing at $100-1000 over the years, and both these simply sound more like real music than the others.
YMMV, but for me, in my system, they are killer good and a great value for truly high end sound.
I changed my DD order to D3s.

jonbee · « **Reply #150 on:** 13 Dec 2013, 10:46 pm »

Sorry about the double post

shaizada · « **Reply #151 on:** 14 Dec 2013, 07:13 am »

D1 XLR
======

I put this cable in between my Ray Samuels B52 Preamp and my EAR 890 Amplifier. The cable the D1 XLR replaced was my Kimber KCAG XLR.

With the replacement, the first thing I noticed is that the D1 XLR did absolutely no harm. The system remained musical and extremely enjoyable. Hence, since I did not wince at first listen (a very good sign), I kept playing my familiar test tracks.

The D1 XLR is very inviting and smooth from bottom bass registers to the vocal range. The cable seems to have a somewhat laid back character which enhances the musicality and listenability.
The bottom end seemed to be more round sounding and flowing into the vocal range nicely. Compared to the Kimber KCAG, the KCAG manages to be even more smoother but with much more definition. The D1 XLR maintains the transient information, but the edges of the beginning and ending of a note is slightly blurred. Hence, the D1 XLR makes for a pleasant listen, but loses out on definition that is on the recording.

From the vocals on up, the D1 XLR is reserved. The information is there, but becomes part of the music as more background. The shimmer and air around cymbals seems diminished compared to the KCAG. The information is there, but rounded and somewhat receded. Again, makes for a pleasant listen, but after a while, I was less engaged with the music.

For me, I would probably use the D1 XLR in a system that is more forward or analytical sounding to bring in some "humanity". It will help to flesh out tones and textures while maintaining a musical poise. However, in a finely tuned system, it must be placed strategically to ensure the system moves in a direction you want it to. I like this D1 XLR cable, but it's not for me at the moment.

D1 RCA:
======

This particular cable was put between my VPI turntable and the EAR 324 phono stage. This is the only area my system used a single ended cable at the moment as the rest of the system uses balanced XLR cables. The D1 RCA replaced a run of Jorma Unity RCA cable which runs $4000 a meter.

The D1 RCA sounded great in this setting from the get go. The top end came in beautifully this time and did not have a recess as in the XLR version. Cymbal work shimmered with very good air, actually excellent air but still less than the Jorma Unity.

Now comes the juicy part! The mid bass on this cable is sublime. The heart of the music beats with colors full of life and vigor. There is a slight midrange oriented sheen on the music, but I absolutely love it. Again, that "human" factor is prevalent in spades. Voices, guitar tones, overtones, bass lines, horns, wood winds, brass instruments come in with stunning musicality. This RCA D1 is just a winner. I don't see any system it will NOT work in. It is pulling in lots of definition and serving it with such passion, I would not mind having this cable in my stable of RCA cables. Winner for all types of systems.

D2 RCA:
=======
Again, put between the VPI Turntable and the EAR 324 phono stage, this cable is clearly cut form the same cloth, however, it is slightly more balanced (or read another way, closer to the neutral side of the sound spectrum). Slightly less "fleshy" than the D1, but now this cable is portraying yet another additional level of detail and clarity in the musical spectrum.

Listening to the D2, I feel there is more information coming through the cable, but with further listening it becomes clear that it is the change in presentation that seems to make this so. I feel the top end has opened up more with more definition, the mids and bass, as a result seem less plump but portray more definition again.

In short, I feel the D2 has more definition and transient information coming through with the slight musical plumpness diminished compared to the D1. I actually really liked that about the D1!
D2 is a winner again. I would most likely use this in a more traditionally tube based system. I would probably shy away from this cable in a solid state system unless the solid state has a nice big/rounded bottom end. Definition, linearity, transparency is the name of the game here.

DD RCA:
=======
Used in the same position as the others, this is the best cable of the lot for me. This has a blend of both the strengths of D1 and D2 in my system with a natural presentation.

I am now getting the nice bottom end with full musicality without extra fat. The top end is open and airy while the mids are properly fleshed out. This is now closer to the balance offered by my Jorma Unity RCA cables. The Jorma provides even more information in terms of soundstage height, width, depth, bottom end, mids and a much more information in the top WITHOUT being bright.

The DD sounds like a Jorma Unity, but less of everything. I guess, the Jorma Unity gives more in all respects akin to a Mercedes S-Class. The DD is also a Mercedes, but more of an E-Class. This doesn't take anything away from the DD as sometimes you don't want to be driving an S-class all the time

I really really like this DD cable and think it can easily be used in any kind of system allowing the music to come through without crimping it in any way. This is my kind of cable and the winner out of all three in a finely tuned system. The other cables would work great and could be a better match in a given kind of system. In the end, I guess it all depends on the setup, the room, the listener and the music.

Thank you so much Dave. You are obviously on the right path as the DD cable compares nicely to some of the more expensive cables on the market…just like you set out to do. Congrats on the achievement!

NOTE: I made sure NOT to read any of the reviews of these cables to ensure my thoughts are not influenced in any way. Looks like a lot of the conclusions I drew fit along side experiences of others.

My System:
- Marten Design Bird 2 Speakers
- Chord QBD76HDSD Dac, EAR Dacute Dac
- VPI TNT VI "Hot Rod" Turntable, JMW 12.5 Tonearm, HRX Motor, Superplatter or Aluminum Platter, Van Den Hul Grasshopper III GLA Phono Cartridge,
- Scheu Premier III Turntable, Schroeder Model 2 Tonearm, Jan Allaerts Cartridge
- EAR 324 Phono Stage, Jadis DPMC Phonostage, Einstein Turntables Choice Phono, Ray Samuels F-117 Phonostage, Eddie Current Transcription Phonostage
- EAR 868 Preamp, Ray Samuels B52 Preamp
- EAR 890 Amplifier
- Power Conditioning by Exactpower EP15a, Exactpower SP15ax4, Richard Gray 400s
- Cabling is Kubala Sosna Emotion, Kimber, Furutech, Harmonix for signal and power.

*NOTE: I'll be ready to ship the cables out by next thursday or so. Dave, please send me the shipping details of the next person please.

Thanks!

DaveC113 · « **Reply #152 on:** 15 Dec 2013, 04:08 am »

Wow, thanks for the great review shaizada!

I appreciate your honest and well thought out reviews. I would especially like you to evaluate the D3 interconnect cables since you have such a good reference, I have heard a few people say they prefer once cable or another over the DDs to a small degree or as a matter of personal preference but most people say they the best they have tried. I hope the D3 can equal the Jorma in your system or I will be forced to improve upon it until it does.

I think though, that it will take pure silver RCA plugs and also silver/gold returns to make put it in the same league as the Jorma, but I can make such a cable for about $1k retail. I have not been ready to go there but I don't want ANY cable to be better than the ones I am offering of course.

Lucky for me, the potential customers for a Jorma Unity and Dave's DD don't overlap too much, lol...

DaveC113 · « **Reply #153 on:** 15 Dec 2013, 04:26 am »

A couple updates....

1. I am building more D3 interconnects and will be sending a couple pair on tour, probably with the DD for comparison. If anyone is interested, I will probably have the cables ready to go in 2-3 weeks, I want to make sure they they are thoroughly burned in. I may also send speaker cables, or do a separate tour. Not sure on that one.

2. I am currently listening to a 24/196 rip of the Dark Side of the Moon Black Triangle vinyl with Duelund silver speaker cables and holy crap they are good. They are probably better than ANY copper based speaker cable, the difference is very much like the difference between the D2 and DD interconnect cables, which is exactly what I was expecting. The only downside is price, but with the amount of silver wire needed for speaker cables I can afford to offer them for well under the retail price of the wire and connectors. So this could be a big win-win for those who would appreciate what are probably some of the world's best speaker cables.

The Duelund 1.0 wire is ~19 gauge and would be good for mids/highs or low powered systems. The 2.0 is what I'm using and it's ~16 gauge and should be good for an 8 ohm speaker of average sensitivity. A double run would get down to 13 gauge but oh my god it would be expensive.

As far as price, just for example for example an 8' set of cables using very high end Furutech FT series spades and bananas would cost $1275. I know that isn't cheap, but I actually feel the value for the money is pretty good as these speaker cables perform at an amazingly high level. Not sure I can go back to using copper!

Opinions and comments welcome!

shaizada · « **Reply #154 on:** 16 Dec 2013, 11:13 pm »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 15 Dec 2013, 04:08 am

Wow, thanks for the great review shaizada!

I appreciate your honest and well thought out reviews. I would especially like you to evaluate the D3 interconnect cables since you have such a good reference, I have heard a few people say they prefer once cable or another over the DDs to a small degree or as a matter of personal preference but most people say they the best they have tried. I hope the D3 can equal the Jorma in your system or I will be forced to improve upon it until it does. I think though, that it will take pure silver RCA plugs and also silver/gold returns to make put it in the same league as the Jorma, but I can make such a cable for about $1k retail. I have not been ready to go there but I don't want ANY cable to be better than the ones I am offering of course. Lucky for me, the potential customers for a Jorma Unity and Dave's DD don't overlap too much, lol...

You are welcome.

Dave, I look forward to the D3 and would prefer to have the DD around at the time. Might I suggest you having a run of RCA and Balanced for both the DD and D3 if possible. It is very clear that the connectors used play a major sonic role in the overall sound. I think that would be much better to understand where these cables are headed.

If they can beat the cables in my system, I would GLADLY purchase a set and get rid of some of the cables I have. Let me know and we can figure it out. Please ensure that the cables are fully burned in before we evaluate.

In fact, I suggest you do your cost no object cable and see how it stands with the competition...I will gladly do a review.

jonbee · « **Reply #155 on:** 22 Dec 2013, 06:41 pm »

I've received my order of single ended and balanced D3s from Dave, as well as demo DDs and speaker cables.
I'm extremely please with all of them. The D3 has a 3D soundstage, extreme detail and ambience retrieval, and a very black background. They have perfect balance, lifelike dynamics and refinement at the same time. No ugly artifacts, and no obfuscation either. They have truly beautiful tone as well, and a joy to listen to.
I'm trying out his 14 ga. speaker cables now, and I'm pleased to report they have a very similar sound to the D3- full bodied, wide open, clear as a bell and yet refined. I'm buying a pair of them for my big rig. They are a dead steal at Dave's price.
I've been listening to a demo pair of DDs as well, and while in my big rig I prefer the D3, the speakers in my office are a tiny bit bright, and the DDs mesh perfectly with them. At some point I'll buy a pair of DDs for that system.
Over the last year or so I've used Zu Event, Cerious Reference, Acrotec 2050, Discovery Essence, and Grover Huffman ZX+, Anti-ICs ICs, among others, and Clear Day double shotgun, Anti-cables, Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun, Zu Libtec, LAT SSD1000 and Nanotech SR79 speaker cables. Dave's cables are CLEARLY better than any of these in my systems, in most cases dramatically so.
As always, matchups are key, but Dave has a generous return policy, so I recommend you try them out if you're looking for something to try in their price range or a good bit higher.
Thanks to Dave for offering such fine products at reasonable prices. This is one case where spending more than you would for "affordably good" cables can provide substantial sonic benefits.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #156 on:** 23 Dec 2013, 05:51 am »

Hi John, thanks for posting your comments on the cables. I agree the SCs and D3 ICs have a similar sound, the D2 ICs do as well but are not in the same league as the D3. I'd love to make silver/gold speaker cables but a 8 foot set of 15 gauge cables would use $3300 worth of wire.

In any case, I do think the 14 gauge Neotech EC-UPOCC wire is the best copper wire for audio use, with the caveat that it is less forgiving than regular copper cables... but the Neotech wire is clearer, more detailed and more dynamic in return.

Any comments or interest in a speaker cable or combined SC/IC tour? The D3 ICs with SCs used at the same time will give you the full impact of what the Neotech UPOCC wiring will do for your system, with the DD available as an alternative vs the D3.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #157 on:** 23 Dec 2013, 05:53 am »

Oh, also in John's comments above D2 refers to the DD interconnect with Duelund 2.0 wire.

jonbee · « **Reply #158 on:** 23 Dec 2013, 03:02 pm »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 23 Dec 2013, 05:53 am

Oh, also in John's comments above D2 refers to the DD interconnect with Duelund 2.0 wire.

Sorry about that. I changed the references to "DD".
I agree that the DD, D3, and SCs sound very special together- in particular, the soundstage widened and deepened dramatically in my system. Very cool to experience.

jonbee · « **Reply #159 on:** 10 Jan 2014, 03:26 am »

I just received my order of Dave's speaker cables, so now I have a complete "loom" of single ended and balanced D3 ICs and Dave's SCs, end to end. All I can say is "Wow". With no break in of the speaker cables the resulting improvement over my Grover Z+ and Nanotech SCs is even more than I could have hoped for. The result gets me much closer to the event, I feel, with the benefits from highs to lows, front to back and sideways. The result is captivating.
I should add, that as Dave said, the speaker cables do have a strong but extremely clear and clean top end. Not bright, but lifelike, IMO, and this should be considered when deciding whether they will match up well in any particular system. in my case, I needed a little more top end than I had with my previous cables, which are slightly rolled off. The SCs gave me exactly what I wanted, but as always with cables, one size does not fit all. In a too bright system these speaker cables will not help tone it down, but may still improve the sound by virtue of the very clean top end.
The Huffmans and Nanotechs are very good for their price, and I have kept them in my other 2 systems, but Dave's D3 ICs and speaker cables show them clean heels in a hi-rez sytem.
The performance/value ratio in these cables is very high. They are about 2x the price of what I had been using, but less than many I've used, and in my system they trounce the rest, regardless of cost. In fine systems incremental improvement get very pricey, as we all know, but in this case the extra $ gets a larger benefit than I'm used to getting for the $.
All I can say is, with the usual caveats about matchups, give 'em a try!
My system: Daedalus Audio RMa V2, Hypex N-core NC400 amps, Audio-GD C-3 preamp, dedicated Windows 7 music server running J-river 19, Musical fidelity V192 usb converter, Eastern electric minimax dac plus w/ dexa op amps, Sources powered by a PS Audio Power Plant premier chained to a Pi Audio Rev B, lots of good, selected power cables.