What Amps are you using with Ellis Speakers

David Ellis · « **Reply #20 on:** 7 Oct 2004, 02:16 am »

This is a very good post.

Yes, there is a plethora of gear out there in the commercial realm that is probably just fine. Your comments are very welcome and appreciated. I must admit having an old Kenwood receiver that sounds pretty decent. Sure, my Bryston had much more oomph, but he old Kenwood sound quality was.... on par. At low/sane volume levels my old kenwood sounds pretty good.

I do think you might have stated something backwards

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Also, The SAF bonus points from replacing a rack full of equipment with a slimline receiver and dvd player is not insignificant.

You probably wanted to say that replacing the gear IS significant.

Also, are you attending the IOWA DIY gathering in DesMoines on the 23rd?

Mudjock · « **Reply #21 on:** 7 Oct 2004, 04:20 am »

Yes Dave, I will be attending DIY Iowa. I will be going solo - so just a day trip. I look forward to seeing you there. I am hoping to bring some 8" two-ways for others to ridicule - as long as my first attempts at using the router prove relatively successful.

I really did mean to say "not insignificant" because I have a certain affinity for the double negative. Where that sentence really didn't come together is when I used "bonus points" as the subject and "is" as the verb instead of "are". I'll try to be less unclear (there I go again) next time.

David Ellis · « **Reply #22 on:** 7 Oct 2004, 11:57 am »

I might bring some 8" 2-way speakers too. I am not sure exactly what I'll bring, but it'll be somethin'. I might not even bother with a router.

audiojerry · « **Reply #23 on:** 7 Oct 2004, 01:04 pm »

heard this on Cartalk (paraphrased):
A language professor lecturing on the topic of double negatives and noted that the use of double negatives in most languages translates to the opposite meaning of positive, but nowhere does the use of double positives translate to negative, when someone in the audience replied, "Yeah, right".

Eric · « **Reply #24 on:** 7 Oct 2004, 02:20 pm »

Hee Hee

dk · « **Reply #25 on:** 11 Nov 2004, 10:22 pm »

I've just purchased a NAD 304 on eBay (approx USD$225) and am now using this to drive the tweeters, and my old Yamaha AX-590 amp to drive the woofers on my 1801's in bi-amp mode. You're probably all cringing as I say that, but it works quite well (I haven't the gear to measure their voltage gain, but they seem to be identical to me!) The Yamaha also sounded a little harsh in the highs, and the NAD is much more listenable I think.

I also tried the NAD driving the whole system and it sounded great. It's probably way underpowered, hence the bi-amp choice, but the NAD sure sounded infinitely better than the Yamaha.

I am aiming to do some practice soldering on little projects before I take on the AKSA 100 Nirvana+ one day. Plus I have some family who are considering getting me to build some 1801s! Dave - orders not too far away for those!

David Ellis · « **Reply #26 on:** 1 Dec 2004, 03:28 am »

Steve Harrison was kind enough to lend me his 60 watt AKSA amplifiers while spending his winter in Australia. A few days ago I finally hooked-up the AKSA amplifiers between my Anthem CD-1 and my 1801s. I used a Creek passive preamp, Goertz cable, and Belden cross connected 89259/89248 interconnect with Dayton plugs.

The result... well... the AKSA amp sounds really good! It doesn't just sound a little good. It sounds really good! While my modified Jolida 302b is a very solid performer, it's bettered by Steve's ultra-tweaked AKSA 60 watt amplfier. I was very surprised. The AKSA might be the very best amplifier I have heard. Yes, this is a strong statement, but it might actually be true. If the AKSA amplifiers were available in a completed commercial unit for $1500 with a passive volume control they would be a no-brainer value oriented purchase. At $5k there might be commercial amplifiers in the same league, but I cannot be certain.

The obvious problem is the AKSA must be built, it cannot be purchased. In this regard, I have no insight. I haven't buit the AKSA.

The only subjective caviat I must offer is my Jolida still has a very slight edge in low level detail, but ONLY when the program material is very simple. When the program material becomes complex, the AKSA has detail and smooth clean presentation in spades. The clarity of string instruments is uncanny. I can hear ALL of them.

I don't really have more to offer in this regard. I simply feel compelled to offer my thoughts about the AKSA. It's a benchmark product. I have often wondered about the result of using high quality parts in an amplifier. I'm not wondering anymore.

Al Garay · « **Reply #27 on:** 1 Dec 2004, 06:03 am »

Hi David,

Now you know what I mean about my AKSA 100 monoblocks. And I'm ordering the Nirvana Plus kit. The combo with a transformer based passive preamp, BentAudio TX102, is very very good.

By the way, the AKSA100 will have greater dynamics and stronger bass than the AKSA55.

Hugh Dean gives excellent support like you and John Chapman from BentAudio.

Al

AKSA · « **Reply #28 on:** 1 Dec 2004, 08:04 am »

David,

I read this thread with rapt interest. It has huge insights into the psychology of audio, and the thoughts of noted designers such as yourself who are not afraid of handing out laurels.

I must thank you for giving the AKSA the time of day! As you can imagine, much of my life has been tied up in this design, which is actually very simple, a good example of technological convergence, and straighforward to build.

David, would you like to be included on the AKSA 100W Nirvana Plus audition tour? Step right up - signal your interest to this thread:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=11644&start=180

It would be my sincere pleasure to give you the chance to hear the very latest high power AKSA, which brings your speakers to a level of realism people say is jaw-dropping....... Paul in NYC (aka Occam) is supervising the tour, so your contact details should be PMed to him to arrange it all.

Al, Rod, Steve,

Thanks for your many kind words - I appreciate it.

Service is probably where it's at in this game, like most consumer arenas. It is not sufficient to have a good product; buyers want it all and with good reason. It is regrettable I do not yet make a fully assembled AKSA, though I will do it on special order, but I'm on the case and lying awake at nights thinking about the logistics......

Cheers,

Hugh

David Ellis · « **Reply #29 on:** 1 Dec 2004, 11:00 pm »

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I must thank you for giving the AKSA the time of day!

While your appreciation in this matter is well received, it isn't really necessary. I must admit a completely biased self-interest with regard to amplifier choices and my mention of amplifiers in this forum. It is in my very best self interest to have the very best source gear behind the 1801s. The obvious result is that excellent source gear will yield the very best sound quality from the 1801s. Hence, recommending your amplifier is a win-win for me.

I am happily satisfied with the AKSA 55wpc units, and don't think the 100wpc unit will yield any significant audible changes. Frankly, it doesn't need to offer any significant changes. The 55wpc AKSA sounds extremely good.

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It is regrettable I do not yet make a fully assembled AKSA, though I will do it on special order, but I'm on the case and lying awake at nights thinking about the logistics......

Yeah, I know. This kind of work just doens't seem very fun. Also, it's extremely time consuming.

Dave

stvnharr · « **Reply #30 on:** 2 Dec 2004, 12:28 am »

It should be pointed out here that while the Aksa amps are fully DIY, they are fairly simple and straightforward to construct. If you can put together a speaker crossover, then you can construct the amp. I know as that is where I came from. The kit instructions are detailed and easy to follow. Support from Hugh is second to none. I made a few mistakes in construction, but in the end all came out well.
As long as you know which end of a soldering iron is the hot end, you will do just fine constructing the amp.

David Ellis · « **Reply #31 on:** 2 Dec 2004, 03:38 am »

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As long as you know which end of a soldering iron is the hot end, you will do just fine constructing the amp.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #32 on:** 2 Dec 2004, 03:48 am »

Quote from: stvnharr

It should be pointed out here that while the Aksa amps are fully DIY, they are fairly simple and straightforward to construct. If you can put together a speaker crossover, then you can construct the amp. I know as that is where I came from. The kit instructions are detailed and easy to follow. Support from Hugh is second to none. I made a few mistakes in construction, but in the end all came out well.
As long as you know which end of a soldering iron is the hot end, you will do just fine constructing the amp.

Or you could go the route I took...had someone (Carlman) build it for me. Thanks Carl....

richny · « **Reply #33 on:** 28 Dec 2004, 09:04 pm »

Dave: I've been on the fence a while about ordering the 1801's because of my concern over their efficiency. I have an EL34 push pull tube amplifier that produces 35 watts per channel (Prologue One - as seen in current edition of The Absolute Sound). You once indicated in an e-mail response to me that your similar unit from Jolida worked just fine. I just saw your post about the ASKA solid state amp and its better detail with complex music presumably by the added power. What can I expect with classical orchestral music with my amp based on your own listening experiences? I will use in my living room which is about 15 by 20 at reasonable listening levels.

David Ellis · « **Reply #34 on:** 29 Dec 2004, 01:05 am »

Good question,

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better detail with complex music presumably by the added power.

Well... no. Quite often the opposite is true. Lower power amplifiers will have better resolution. I don't have the complete explanation for this. However, I believe there are a couple of factors adding validity to this.

1. Higher power amplifiers are often more complex. Complexity isn't always a good thing. Quite often it's bad. In the realm of amplifiers, there is some consensus regarding this issue. The general rule of thumb appears to be "only buy what you will use". Anything more is wasted heat and added complexity. I read a hint at this from the folks at AKSA. However, I don't remember the specific words use. I also read it here:

http://www.high-endaudio.com/index_ac.html

http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Amplifiers.html

I encourage you to read Mr. Salvatore's site completely. I found it a few days ago, and it's very solid material - IMO.

2. Frank VanAlstine mentioned a while ago that the entire signal path is essentially an impedance device. I didn't understand this compltely, but my conclusion was that smaller amplifier with small transformers should sound better. You are welcome to query Mr. VanAlstine concerning this issue.

Both the AKSA and Jolida 302b have plenty of power. To my ear the AKSA has a touch more power, but this difference is VERY minor. I never run either amp at full power for more than 30 seconds. The spl is considerable, and I enjoy my good ears.

I honestly don't know why the AKSA has very good detail. I am confident this is NOT a tube versus SS issue. I have heard MANY SS amps that had less detail than my Jolida 302b. Both amps have plenty of power. Given this, I am sure your EL34 will have plenty of power to drive the 1801. I was very happy with my Jolida 302b for 2 years. My decision to switch to something different (for now anyway) has absolutely nothing to do with how many watts the Jolida (35wpc) or AKSA(55wpc) amp will push. It has everything to do with how well both amps push about 2-3 watts. The AKSA is a very good amplifier.

Hopefully my response is adequate. Please let me know if you need further explanation regarding my thoughts conveyed above.

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fajimr · « **Reply #35 on:** 6 Jan 2005, 05:57 pm »

I noticed Dave has his Jolida on Ebay... Dave, did you finally make the move to a FET valve???

inquirying minds want to know

David Ellis · « **Reply #36 on:** 6 Jan 2005, 06:48 pm »

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I noticed Dave has his Jolida on Ebay... Dave, did you finally make the move to a FET valve???

inquirying minds want to know

Well... no. A couple of months ago I tried a FETValve, but liked my modded Jolida 302b better. I really wanted to like the FETValve, but preferred the sound of my tube amp. A couple months later I tried and AKSA amp in my system. You can obviously discern the outcome (for now).

This is just my 2 cents on the matter. I still think the AVA gear is the best value in completed SS source gear. However, if the user is willing to solder, and doesn't need the typically higher power of an AVA amp, the AKSA 55wpc unit is a winner.

Please read page 3 in this string for my comments.

pem · « **Reply #37 on:** 24 Jan 2005, 07:59 pm »

Do you think that and AVA OmegaStar260 (130W) is sufficient to drive the Ellis 1801 ? Do you recommend another model ?

Otherwise, do you see some other interesting brands that we can be more easilly found in Europe (Naim, Thule, Rotel, etc.) ?

best regards,
Pierre-Etienne

David Ellis · « **Reply #38 on:** 24 Jan 2005, 10:14 pm »

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Do you think that and AVA OmegaStar260 (130W) is sufficient to drive the Ellis 1801 ?

This is easily enough. If you are planning to drive the 1801, I'd save $300 and get the 240ex. The lowest impedance point for the 1801 is 6ohms. This makes the 240ex very vaible.

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Otherwise, do you see some other interesting brands that we can be more easilly found in Europe (Naim, Thule, Rotel, etc.) ?

I am not an amplifier guy, I am a speaker guy. I can only comment from some experience with AVA amplifiers, and a very good understanding of commercial hifi. As a baseline, everyone seems to agree that Bryston makes a good amplifier. Indeed I think they do made a very good amplifier. In my opinion, AVA sound amps are better. They sound better. The difference is very obivous and immedaite. The AVA amp had less grit and equal dynamics at roughly the same price point.

Before and after this experience I spent a fair amount of time with commercial amplifiers. At about $2k there were differences, but nothing really jumped out at me - until the AVA experience. After this, I opened the hood on an AVA preamp. I was very impressed with the quality of parts under the hood. Indeed Mr. VanAlstine uses good parts - better than those in the Bryston unit.

If you are willing to fiddle with tubes, I highly recommend a Jolida 302b or 502b amplifier. These are wonderful sounding amplifiers. Also, AVA recently executed another modification for the Dynaco ST-70. This is likely a very good amplifier too. I think any of these tube amplifiers will perform better than any solid state units at a similar price point. Tube amplifers are slightly more fussy, but worth the effort IMO.

Sincerely,

rmihai0 · « **Reply #39 on:** 17 Feb 2005, 04:14 pm »

I am considering to upgrade my current integrated, to wellcome my new 1801b's. My budget is limited to $1100.
I listened to a Jolida 302B and convinced me, but not totally. That is why I am asking your advise. On my shortlist are:
- KORA 150SB
- YBA Initial
- ISEM Xtasis 2
- CAYIN TA-30
- CREEK 5350 SE
- AUDIO ANALOGUE Donizetti+Bellini
- MARANTZ PM 17 Mk2
- MUSICAL FIDELITY A 3.2
- CONSONANCE M100 Plus
- SPHINX Myth 5

From these I listened only to Creek, Marantz and MF 3.2. I like them, but still I am feeling that something is missing.

What is your advise for me? What integrated or amp-pre-amp combo are you using?

I heard other guys talking about Aronov and Plinius. Are they as good as claimed?