[david45]

As much as would love to get my hands on a pair of x-otica speakers when they become available, i've come to realize that i simply don't have enough room to accomodate OB speakers and set them up properly.

Keeping in mind a minimum of 89db sensitivity is required for my amp and that I have a 3000 ft3 room to deal with, the 2 options I am now considering are sealed floorstanders (mtm design therefore optimal volume is 2.5 ft3 with f3=63 hz if I remember correctly) or hopefully (keeping my fingers crossed) 3-way mtm with either 2 or single 8'' servo woofer rather than the 12''.
As you can see I am trying to keep the speakers relatively small, especially that  I already have a decent subwoofer I can throw into the mix (even if I go 3-way mtm, the soon to be released servo amp looks incredibly flexible (+various hi-pass points) and should allow me to integrate my subwoofer somewhat easily. Higher SPL's are going to be withing reach of the 8'' servo woofers as well since they would be relieved from the last octave meaning perhaps I could get away with just one instead of 2.

What I need to know:

What is the optimal sealed volume for 2 of the new 6.5'' drivers if they are hi-passed at 80hz? Would the curve still look relatively nice when measured?

What about 200hz? 150hz?

Mtm design with the new drivers would be around 91db efficient?

New servo amps are going to be ok for sealed application?

How efficient is the X-Pro going to be?

Am I being rational?

[Danny Richie]

Man I have been thinking about really cranking out some great designs with these drivers. I have just been held up by getting the servo amps here and manufacture of the wave guides for the tweeters I want to use with them.

I have been thinking of a sealed box woofer tweeter with a single side firing servo 8 on the bottom. Sensitivity by the numbers would by 85db. It would be a good speaker for near a wall and it would do just about anything you wanted it to in the lower range and be completely adjustable. It would be a great small room speaker.

Then maybe step that up to an MTM version. It would come in at about 91db sensitivity. Optimal sealed box is 2.5 cubic feet, but that could be reduced if the lower range were limited. And two side firing 8" servo subs would be great.

I also would like to offer the X-Treme. It will be an array with six of the 8 ohm M165NQ woofers, a pair of the 16 ohm M165NQ/16 woofers, and the tweeter with wave guide. All this on an open baffle with a unique side support that becomes a rigid frame... Then use a pair of open baffle servo controlled 12's in a separate box.     Think of the array as a WWWMTMWWW arrangement. 

Yeah, I have some ideas...

[AKLegal]

I also would like to offer the X-Treme. It will be an array with six of the 8 ohm M165NQ woofers, a pair of the 16 ohm M165NQ/16 woofers, and the tweeter with wave guide. All this on an open baffle with a unique side support that becomes a rigid frame... Then use a pair of open baffle servo controlled 12's in a separate box.     Think of the array as a WWWMTMWWW arrangement. 

Yeah, I have some ideas...

That thing would be 80 inches tall right? My system is in my basement and I have lower ceilings lol.
What about something shorter like a WMTMW?  Sort of like a OB version of Tyler acoustics old Woodmere design.

[Danny Richie]

That thing would be 80 inches tall right? My system is in my basement and I have lower ceilings lol.
What about something shorter like a WMTMW?  Sort of like a OB version of Tyler acoustics old Woodmere design.

It would only be about 72 to 74 inches tall. 

It would take at least a WWMTMWW to balance out the sensitivities. And if the tweeter height were the same (ear level) then it would really only be shorter by one woofer.

[david45]

Thanks for the reply Danny. Judging from your enthusiasm, I am not the only one getting excited about the new drivers and all their potential applications
I like the idea of a single driver and tweeter with servo-powered woofer (especially its flexibility), but is there any way a biwireable version could also be offered to compensate for the lower sensitivity? Even your X-Pro could be a good compromise for my room, I think, if a biwireable version was to be offered.
I'll have a virtue audio sensation, tbi millenia mk2 and ayon spirit 3 to play with, so I am thinking the millenia could be used on the lower binding posts since it has got decent bass performance.
Your X-Pro would be even more Merlin VSM like
What about the size of my room? Would that be too big for that new potential design with single powered woofer or your X-Pro considering the amplifiers I have as well as the subwoofer covering the lowest octave? (If and only if they could be biamped)
Some reviews mention merlin VSMs can fill a room up to 4000ish ft3?

[jeffh]

Then maybe step that up to an MTM version. It would come in at about 91db sensitivity. Optimal sealed box is 2.5 cubic feet, but that could be reduced if the lower range were limited. And two side firing 8" servo subs would be great.

I would love to build this.

[david45]

I would love to build this.

This is also what I would be leaning towards

[Danny Richie]

Thanks for the reply Danny. Judging from your enthusiasm, I am not the only one getting excited about the new drivers and all their potential applications
I like the idea of a single driver and tweeter with servo-powered woofer (especially its flexibility), but is there any way a biwireable version could also be offered to compensate for the lower sensitivity? Even your X-Pro could be a good compromise for my room, I think, if a biwireable version was to be offered.
I'll have a virtue audio sensation, tbi millenia mk2 and ayon spirit 3 to play with, so I am thinking the millenia could be used on the lower binding posts since it has got decent bass performance.
Your X-Pro would be even more Merlin VSM like
What about the size of my room? Would that be too big for that new potential design with single powered woofer or your X-Pro considering the amplifiers I have as well as the subwoofer covering the lowest octave? (If and only if they could be biamped)
Some reviews mention merlin VSMs can fill a room up to 4000ish ft3?

Making them bi-wire compatible doesn't change the sensitivity.

Something like this can be used to roll off the lows of the M165NQ woofer and you wouldn't have to worry to much about reaching a mechanical limit. That would increase its max SPL range some.



I'd still recommend them be used in a small to medium sized room. And move up to the MTM version for more output. The new servo amp will drive the 8" woofer so your amp will have very little current demand on it and it will increase its headroom. 

And I have had a Merlin VSM in for testing. It wasn't all that, and it did not measure very well either.

[david45]

Making them bi-wire compatible doesn't change the sensitivity.

Something like this can be used to roll off the lows of the M165NQ woofer and you wouldn't have to worry to much about reaching a mechanical limit. That would increase its max SPL range some.
 


I'd still recommend them be used in a small to medium sized room. And move up to the MTM version for more output.

The new servo amp will drive the 8" woofer so your amp will have very little current demand on it and it will increase its headroom. 

And I have had a Merlin VSM in for testing. It wasn't all that, and it did not measure very well either.

I was just bugging you Danny

MTM it is then!! I thought bi-amping would help me some even though it does not increase sensitivity but I prefer playing it safe anyways

Thanks again Danny

I'll PM you regarding optimal sealed volume if crossed over at 80hz or 200hz to get a better idea of possible cabinet dimensions.

[david45]

Danny,
Concerning the sealed MTM design with dual servo woofers, would you recommend side-firing push-push configuration (with tightly coupled drivers on opposing faces) in order to minimize vibrations by canceling out most of the reaction of the accelerating cones? Is this the arrangement you would have in mind?

[Danny Richie]

Danny,
Concerning the sealed MTM design with dual servo woofers, would you recommend side-firing push-push configuration (with tightly coupled drivers on opposing faces) in order to minimize vibrations by canceling out most of the reaction of the accelerating cones? Is this the arrangement you would have in mind?

Actually facing drivers on each side cancels out moving force as the woofers move in opposite directions. Vibrations, resonances, or pressure put on the other four sides of the box are still the same.

In this case the a woofer could be mounted with one on each side or they could both be on the same side, either way...

[david45]

Actually facing drivers on each side cancels out moving force as the woofers move in opposite directions. Vibrations, resonances, or pressure put on the other four sides of the box are still the same.

Thanks for the info Danny