[kingdeezie]

I don't understand your posting kingdeezie.
How is it apples and oranges.  Your argument just implied that all gaming machines inherently are apt to fail.  Apples to Apples.  I love hype because it is all true. 
Steam will not come near those numbers, but they don't have to.  Because, all they need to do is sell a few hundred thousand, and word gets out.  Plus, all the people with regular PC's are using their service.  They have 3000 games, and have 6,500,000 concurrent players right now. Unlike other consoles, the Steam Machine has no set hardware, as its technology is implemented at the discretion of the manufacturer and is fully customizable in the same lieu as a personal computer.

 

Seriously?

How are FAILURE RATES and EASE OF USE even REMOTELY related? Apples to Oranges.

The initial point that myself and Bob made, was that with consoles, all games released for a console play on that system with minimal work or fuss on the part of the consumer. Yes there are firmware and software updates for the games, but they are handled by the system infrastructure and are fairly straightforward, IE you load the game, the update downloads, you play the game.

With PC gaming, it is not that simple. Ever have to update your motherboard drivers to play a game more efficiently or even at all? Video drivers? Sound drivers? It is extra steps that your average consumer who just wants to play games does not want to deal with.

Can all electronic components fail, PC and consoles alike? YES.

Are consoles more streamlined, easier to use for the average consumer, and MORE PLUG AND PLAY? YES. <---- Initial point.

Apples to oranges.

As a side note, making the steam box customizable is a huge mistake. It just fragments the machine's hardware, much to the same degree as a computer. In this way developers can't develop within specific parameters, they have to develop for a wide, vast amount of parameters. This usually causes the developer to have to create software that is poorly optimized.

Optimization is the reason GTA V runs on eight year old hardware. Good luck running it on an eight year old computer.     

[Woodsea]

deezie you mentioned apples and oranges in regards to parts failure.  Ease of use, I agree.  My macbook pro, except for hardware failure, battery and ssd is extremely easy to use.   Plus, I am running the latest OS. 

Tell me why fragmentation is a bad thing?  This is in regards to the Steam computer.  Right now the gaming console is the one that is steering the game makers.  In two years EA, Ubisoft, and Bungie will be compiling to the lowest common denominator for our games, which will be the Xbox One and then the PS4.  Both of these units only drive industry to push the envelope for a maximum of two years.  The PC market is now just an after thought. 

You vote with your wallet, I am voting away from the 2 party system.  When was the last time an AMD CPU was better than an Intel CPU?  MS and Sony went the cheap route.  Don't get me wrong, I used to be a staunch AMD supporter in the K6 series, but AMD has become a second run.  The Haswell runs circles around the Jaguar, and the next Broadwell generation coming out next year is going to be amazing.  Pair that CPU up with an AMD GPU and you have a juggernaut that will run 4k circles around either console.
I will continue to play with my friends on the 360, until they all upgrade to either machine, and then I will get a new one.  I do not see any reason to buy now.

[Rclark]

@Deezie, yeah, and Gta 5 isn't even on PC at all. There are shitloads of games that are pretty much console exclusive and or, you have to wait two years for the pc version. Pc isn't all roses, there's a reason consoles are popular. Well, at least the ps4 will be popular. The Wii U is an utter failure and the X1 has been a disaster since its reveal. The only hope MS has is the US and Sony has become the people's favorite again. I predict x1 will be a financial catastrophe for MS.

[Rclark]

@ woodsea. Lowest common denominator is a myth. Otherwise we'd be playing wii U up ports! No, it's more like ps4 is lead platform and x1 gets downports from that, if lucky.

Ps4 likely to have five games for every one or two on xbone as ps4 is far easier to dev for. Expect lots of delays for x1, and ultimately a lower fidelity version. Every time.

I've actually met guys from Bungie. Bungie has given an extra hour of gameplay to ps4 for Destiny and has stated ps4 will be the best version.

Everything that happened last gen is now out the window, down is now up.

Or conversely, ps1 sold 130,000,000, ps2 sold 160,000,000, ps3 is on its way to a 100,000,000 close, and ps4 is about to shatter launch records.

Ms, on the other hand, had 1 successful console, the 360, at 78,000,000, and the first was a major flop. 3rd looks to be the same, a dud.

[gregcss]

let's face it - no matter what you buy it will be obsolete when you buy it. Cars, TVs, HT receivers, phones, etc. Why fret, just buy and enjoy.

[Rclark]

It's a pretty tough  sell though when you're $100 more than the competition which happens to be outputting double the pixels with no need for upscaling, and with better effects and post processing. If the x1 was $299 this wouldn't be a debate, but it's a problem when you're more expensive due to going all in on you preipheral device, but less powerful.

Getting reports now that Assassins Creed 4 is sharper and crisper, with better draw distance on ps4. The embargoes will all be lifted soon and we will get to see just how bad it is.

I can't see anyone with a 1080P television not giving this some thought. Upscaling sucks.

Ps4 out in 4 days.

[zybar]

This article sums it up well for me:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-9020_7-57611406-222/why-you-should-wait-before-buying-an-xbox-one-or-ps4/

I will wait.

George

[Rclark]

Been running my ps4 all night. It is an ASTOUNDING machine, and YouTube will not prepare you for it face to face. And everything about the UI and the online experience is beyond the curve. Really amazing.

Full review incoming soon.

[this_is_vv]

waiting for the review...

[Rclark]

I will say this, to touch on audio. It's like an Imax 3D movie. Most audiophile quality positional audio, best environmental sounds I've ever heard. Audio is a huge leap forward.

[Rclark]

Haven't forgotten. Actually have a few reviews to write, but doing ps4 first.

We learned today they moved over a million consoles in 24 hours,  shattering sales records, best launch for any console, ever (ps2 had similar levels of interest and sold a million in 3 days). Europe and Latin America on the 29th, and it is estimated the ps4 will do somewhere between 1.5 and 2 million this month, again, shattering sales records.

It's anticipated xbox 1 will come nowhere even close, with poll after poll showing heavy interest in ps4, and reports on initial preorders an order of magnitude higher than the xbox, which led to MS immediately backstepping on policies and "features" like Michael Jackson.

[zybar]

Enough already....just enjoy your PS4.

You made your point, now move on.

It's like the Ncore amps all over again.   

George

[Rclark]

I guess I just know how to pick the good stuff  . And some people grow so biased they would buy their favorite manufacturers gear if they took a dump in a box and called it new product. Enjoy your 720P last gen chug fest. I'm sure you will glaze over that and fork over $500 willingly for less performance that your mind will not see.

It's like tube amps all over again.

I can be snarky too.

[MaxCast]

Rclark, was that really necessary?
I enjoy being updated as to the pros and cons of each system but if the horse is dead in your mind...quit beating it!!

[Rclark]

Let's be honest, that was a pretty salty reply. And how can the horse be dead, that news just came out, and the fact that the x1 has had to change drastically over the past several months is just a fact. If you don't like to hear bad news, that's on you, not me.

Anyway, this thread has run its course.

[Folsom]

PS4 seems like a no-brainer for me. But I've always preferred a keyboard and mouse. Do you have to be a semi smart monkey instead of just a monkey to use a computer? Sure, but still just a monkey. What I miss is the freedom on games, the big worlds and spaces. My biggest reason for not wanting to participate is because of lack of freedom in games, too much freebies, and no stories. I played during the hay-day before Halo came out. After that it was all consoleitis. Don't get me wrong I like some console games, but they've always been bubbly and fun for the most part. Their restrictions made them fun. The computer... offered a real world of strategy, creativity, room to excel. But that's basically been destroyed. Either everything is like a console or MMORPG that's more EQ styled (don't like them, SWG is awesome before Jedi, but everyone pushed it to become EQ/WOW w/ Jedi and killed it along with an expansion for space that was slow like slug).

I should stay away from this stuff, I get all nostalgic missing the way games use to be, so fun.... 

That said, Rclark you can send me a PS4 and a game you think is good, I'll give a review.

[Rclark]

The biggest mistake people will make is in thinking x1 will be exactly like 360 was, and that ps4 will be exactly like ps3 was, and therefore base their decision that way.

But when people start seeing that the ps4 online experience is completely awesome (it is), that the new controller is easily equal to or better than xbox (it is, now), the $100 lower price, and the much much higher performance,  especially where it counts, on multiplatfom titles (the gap in fidelity is there and will continue to grow in ps4's favor), then x1 will fizzle.

Remote play on Vita is also a killer app that will explode once it reaches a lower price. Remote play is an amazing feature absent on x1.

Ps4 also has much more content incoming:

PlayStation 4: Awesomenauts: Assemble (Ronimo Games) – Aiming for November 29Backgammon Blitz (The Fyzz Facility) – This WinterBasement Crawl (Bloober Team) – Q4 2013The Binding of Issac: Rebirth (Nicalis) – Early 2014Bound by Flame (Spiders Games, Focus Home Interactive) – Early 2014Daylight (Zombie Studios, Atlus) – Early 2014Divekick (Iron Galaxy, One True Game Studios) – Was supposed to be launchDoki-Doki Universe (HumaNature Studios, Sony Computer Entertainment) – December 2013Driveclub (Evolution Studios, Sony Computer Entertainment) – Early 2014Escape Plan (Fun Bits Interactive, Sony Computer Entertainment) – November 29flOw (Thatgamecompany, Sony Computer Entertainment) – November 29Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta (Square Enix) – February 22N++ (Metanet) - Launch WindowNBA Live 2014 (EA Sports, Electronic Arts) – November 19The Pinball Arcade (System 3, FarSight Studios)PlanetSide 2 (Sony Online Entertainment) – Early 2014Pool Nation FX (Cherry Pop Games)) – Was supposed to be launchPutty Squad (System 3) – Was supposed to be launchSherlock Holmes: Crimes & Punishments (Frogwares Studio, Focus Home Interactive) – Early 2014Tiny Brains (Spearhead Games) – November 26TowerFall: Ascesion (Matt Thorson) – Early 2014War Thunder (Gaijin Entertainment) – November 29

Xbox One: LEGO Marvel Super Heroes (TT Games, Warner Bros. Interactive) – ASAPPeggle 2 (Popcap, Electronic Arts) – December 2013Project Spark Beta (Dakota Team, Microsoft Studios) – January 2014Halo: Spartan Assault (Vanguard Entertainment, Microsoft Studios) – December 2013

 They made their console indie friendly at an early stage and are reaping the benefit, and for AAA games they are much easier to develop on, speedier development.

Sun Tzu said a war is won before it has even begun,  and there has been no more clear textbook example as this console launch.

[Woodsea]

I am going to close this thread until the Xbox one comes out.
The hyperbole in this thread in regards to the abysmal inadequacy of the Xbox One compared to the PS4 is way over the top.  The PS4 is only 3 days old in the world and the One is just crowning. 
I will either open this back up on Thanksgiving (Nov28 USA), or we can really have a truly fresh educated experiencial (new Word) discussion in another thread.

[SoCalWJS]

So now that both machines are out, this thread goes dead??!!??? 

I just don't understand how some of these things (discussion threads) work I guess..... 

[Woodsea]

I tried to get Rclark to post his thoughts on the PS4, but he doesn't come by anymore  and his mailbox is full    I am waiting to buy, so I have nothing to add personally.
I find it ironic, now that they are out, that no one has a voiced their opinions.