[HPDJ]

Hey all,

Just wanted to check in and see if anyone would like to share some of their experiences with the Signature 16 amp. I know there has been a little written about it in some previous threads, but it would be great to read how those who've had it for a while are enjoying it. Maybe mention how it's changed/improved (?) so far etc. And also anyone who has gotten one recently...or upgraded their Sig 15 to a 16..

I'm particularly interested in reading about those who also have the headphone stage on their units. I have the LCD 2's and a great desktop rig (with some speakers for near-field use on my desk) , and I may be needing a new amp soon. Thanks so much

[brh]

Mine just came in the mail, whoo!

Here are my initial thoughts, after… Well, not very much listening, but still non-stop since I unpacked it I know 'very little use' isn't what you were asking for, but I'm going to throw in my 2c anyway.

I'm listening near-field, desktop. Audioengine P4s right now, which are not the best little loudspeakers around, but pretty incredible for their price. The Sig 16 is not a full 'rack-sized' unit or anything, but it's kind of big for a desk. Only kind of. I also have a big desk. I may consider the Sig 8 when those eventually come along, to reclaim desk space.

As is to be expected from a pure DC source, the background is black. As black as Malevich's square, as Blixa Bargeld might say. Sound quality is great in near-field, I feel very immersed in a holographic bubble of sound here at my desk. Presentation feels detailed and natural. Stereo imaging is excellent, wasn't really sure how the single tube on the buffer stage would play out, and I've always been leery of stereo amps vs. dual mono configurations. Honestly, I'm thrilled with the sound from the thing. Delighted.

Now, on to that Cassabria headphone stage. It… doesn't cut off the speaker outputs. Which makes it really rather useless in my mind, and kind of a regrettable add-on. If you'll be able to conveniently unplug half your speaker bananas every time you want to use your headphones, then it may work for you. I honestly haven't even demoed it yet because it's way too inconvenient for me to pull my bananas. That sounds… really wrong… my apologies. Anyway, I was hoping the extra desk real estate I spent on this amp would allow me to cut out my other headphone amp, but no dice. I'll probably get a smaller solid state HPA and use the tubed pre outs from the 16. And, again, consider the 8 when it comes out — but without any of the additional options.

So, recap: great sound, box may or may not be on the big side for desktop use, headphone amp was a regrettable option, but once again… great sound!

[Vinnie R.]

Hi brh,

Thanks for posting your impressions!

You should have a MUTE switch on the
back that mutes the speaker outputs.
Use it when you plug in your headphones.

I hope this helps,

Vinnie

[brh]

Yikes, Vinnie, I don't know how I missed that. I'll investigate tonight - sorry for posting false information! Is there any mention of this in the manual? As far as I could tell the manual kind of skipped over the HP stage entirely, and while I'm sure there isn't much to say (except that), a small supplement might be a thing to consider for oblivious folks like myself!

[Vinnie R.]

Yikes, Vinnie, I don't know how I missed that. I'll investigate tonight - sorry for posting false information! Is there any mention of this in the manual? As far as I could tell the manual kind of skipped over the HP stage entirely, and while I'm sure there isn't much to say (except that), a small supplement might be a thing to consider for oblivious folks like myself!

Hi brh,

Yes, it would be helpful if that was added to the manual! 

This will be taken care of ASAP.  I'm pleased to know that you took the time to read the manual - thank you! 

Thanks again for your post!

Vinnie

[HPDJ]

brh,

Thanks for your impressions (even with the misinformation on the headphone output haha)...Let us know how your headphones sound once you've played with the MUTE switch on the back and maybe also what headphones your using. Much appreciated, and thanks Vinnie for chiming in

[alamakazam]

just wondering why the old isabellina HPA has some nice vcaps but the new sig 16 with HPA doesn't have any

[Vinnie R.]

just wondering why the old isabellina HPA has some nice vcaps but the new sig 16 with HPA doesn't have any

Hi alamakazam,

The SE headphone stage design has been improved since the Isabellina HPA.  We no longer need the V-caps.


Hi HPDJ,

Welcome to the RWA forum!  We actually haven't submitted any Renaissance Edition products for review yet.  We've been very busy since
the beginning of the year with upgrades, new orders, and getting the upcoming Signature 57 ready.  But we plan to submit components to reviewers who have shown interest - starting early Summer of this year.  Just need to catch up first...

Hopefully other Signature 16 owners will chime in and respond to your post.

All the best,

Vinnie

[brh]

So, what do you know, last night I found a speaker cut-off switch on the back of my Sig 16, all on my own, no help from nobody! 

I'll report back here over the nice long listening weekend, as I feel I should give the headphone stage a bit more critical listening time simply due to the way that I engage with headphone listening vs. speaker listening. But I'm pretty pleased so far. With HD-650s on my head, and coming off of a serious relationship with a Schiit Lyr, I feel like the Sig 16's presentation is a little less airy and spacious, and possibly a little bit thicker on the low end. While obviously all headphones are different and all speakers are different, I find the output fairly well matched between the two, and understand the implications of putting the more powerful balanced stage inside a (relatively) low-power speaker amp could have been... dire! So far I've not felt that the HD-650s were underpowered by the Sig 16's headphone stage, I will say that I held off on getting LCD-2s for a while for the same reason though, and am also curious to hear peoples' impressions of driving those with the Sig 16.

Another word on background noise: I don't know about your desktop setting, but mine is... cluttered with cables and electronics and half the crap is poorly shielded (and the other half is unshielded!). Desktop audio is a bad place for noise, I would say. Not to mention I don't think my mains power is particularly clean. I definitely pick up some nastiness when in Charge/On mode. That could be all the time, or I could struggle to find the amp with the cleanest rectification, or I could add a bulky line conditioner to my already-cramped desktop. Instead, I must say, I am really... really... pleased that I went with a battery-based solution. Can't stress enough how clean this thing is in the pure battery mode. I know that should be (well, is) obvious, but it's still very impressive. There is some noise in the volume pot while rotating, not a big deal for listening of course.

For reference, my chain is ALAC (primarily Red Book) through iTunes on a Mac Pro 3,1; optical out (the weak link currently) to a Channel Islands VDA-2; to Signature 16; to HD-650 and AudioEngine P4 ('nother weak link).

[HPDJ]

Sounding pretty good so far it seems, thanks for the write up..

My desk is designed and intended for engineers/mixers or "beat makers" who would benefit from a second shelf to put monitors on. So I have a fair amount of space. But I moved all my equipment to a rack right next to my desk because my speakers were making a nice amount of bass and also vibrating the desk in a way that I felt could not be the ideal environment for my amp, dac etc. This freed up more space on my desk now, which is currently littered with CD cases and books.

I have a RCA to 3.5mm cable that runs to my amp so I can listen to youtube stuff and other internet things through my amp...but the cable is not shielded so it makes a little buzzing sound through my speakers. I just need to pick me up a shielded cable and I should be good to go

[dapoun]

I'm also interested in any comments or experiences with the Signature 16. I own a reference 3A MM De Capo i and would love to know if anybody had any experiences.

[brh]

Alright, I had myself four days of listening this weekend, thanks to gov't furloughs, so I thought I'd drop by with a few more impressions.

I spent a bit of time rolling tubes over the weekend, first off. Vinnie can correct me if I'm wrong, but I am nearly certain that the headphone stage exists outside the tube stage. But, I believe that the line output is run through the tube. To this end, my plan is to test compact SS headphone amps using the tubed line out, to see if I get anything more out of the deal.

As it stands, I like the Sig 16 much more as a speaker amp than a headphone amp. Even in my less-than-ideal near-field bubble (frankly, my monitors may as well be headphones!), the speaker taps provide what I expect from a high quality hybrid amp. Detail, but with space and emotion. The headphone stage feels a bit cramped to me, and ever-so-slightly 'heavy.' It's not a bad sound, but it doesn't entirely match the sound of the speaker taps, and to that end it leaves my personal taste wanting a little more. If I was spending most of my time on monitors, I might not worry about trying to find some other magical piece of synergy here. But my listening is around 50/50, and I'd like to get that one 50 up to par with the other.

Suppose I find what I'm looking for by throwing a compact SS HPA into the mix. What of the Sig 16's HPA stage, then? Well, it does two things exceptionally well. The first should be obvious - it is dead silent running on that battery*. I only really rock open cans, but I can imagine this would be an even more beautiful thing on a well-isolated closed pair. It's also just a very... clean... sound. I do think it's a little weighty, but very detailed, very analytical if you're searching for that. So, don't get me wrong - it makes some very lovely sound. But, the speaker taps, well... they make magic!

*: I realize that easily-driven IEMs are not the intended use of a desktop amp, but I had to test fit on something and figured 'why not run them through the 16.' There was a mighty amount of hiss running through these, so I'm going to just go ahead and recommend nobody do that. With no gain selection, etc, it's probably wise to just stick desktop-sized cans in your desktop-sized amp.

Edited after clarification from Vinnie: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=116806.msg1231769#msg1231769

[brh]

I have a RCA to 3.5mm cable that runs to my amp so I can listen to youtube stuff and other internet things through my amp...but the cable is not shielded so it makes a little buzzing sound through my speakers. I just need to pick me up a shielded cable and I should be good to go

From your phone, or your computer, or..? Shielded cable might help, but I know when I was getting started with my computer setup, just moving to even the cheapest of outboard DACs was the only way to get rid of noise. Of course, this is from a fully loaded Mac Pro - motors from five drives, plus fans, etc... Lot of stuff inside of our machines that seemingly only exist to create noise

I find it worth mentioning, even though this is not really related, that it's rather pleasant opening up the Sig 16. Everything is laid out nice and distinctly - here's your battery, here's your brick of a power output stage, here's your tube stage with its pleasing little voltage switch, etc... and all tied together neatly with nice thick bus wiring. Part of the fun of tube rolling is just looking inside this machine

[HPDJ]

Hi brh,

First off, thanks for the update on your impressions of the Sig 16's headphone output...and also the sound with your speakers! I realize they are just your impressions so I will of course, take them with a grain of salt...but it's good to read about how someone else is receiving the unit..

Looks like I'm gonna be able to demo the Sig 16 with headphone output tomorrow so I'll try and report back on my findings to add another perspective.

Oh, and the noise I'm hearing through my speakers are from my computer...the 3.5mm headphone jack is connected to the laptops headphone output. If a shielded cable doesn't work to lower the noise then I don't know how else to get sounds from the computer to run through my system....my DAC is connected to my computer via usb cable, but that's just for music through Jriver...if I want to listen to something from youtube to preview a song before I buy it (as I do sometimes) then that's when I use the RCA to 3.5mm cable......I'm new to Jriver so maybe there is a way to have ANY sound from the computer through my DAC??

[brh]

I'm primarily a Mac user, so I can't guide you through the steps exactly, but you should be able to choose your USB DAC as a system-wide output device from your Control Panel. I believe you're going to want to go under Control Panel -> Sounds & Audio Devices -> Audio tab -> dropdown with various devices listed. Something like that, I wouldn't be surprised if every release of Windows is a little bit different, but just quickly hunting through my XP here at work, believe that's about where you need to be.

[HPDJ]

Ahhhh, I figured it out, thanks! can't believe I hadn't tried to before. I'm relatively new to the whole computer audio think so....that's my excuse

On my Win7 laptop I just went to Control Panel>Manage Audio Devices>Right Clicked on my computers speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio)>Clicked on "disable" and all the audio is now going through my DAC. Very simple. And now I don't need to buy a shielded RCA to 3.5mm cable like I thought, sweeeet

[Vinnie R.]

Hi brh,

Thanks for your posts - and I'm glad you noticed our careful wiring 'under the hood.'  We warranty it for 10 years, so
it has to be very carefully built and using parts that are designed to last!   

Enjoy it!

Vinnie

[brh]

Ahhhh, I figured it out, thanks! can't believe I hadn't tried to before. I'm relatively new to the whole computer audio think so....that's my excuse

On my Win7 laptop I just went to Control Panel>Manage Audio Devices>Right Clicked on my computers speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio)>Clicked on "disable" and all the audio is now going through my DAC. Very simple. And now I don't need to buy a shielded RCA to 3.5mm cable like I thought, sweeeet

No problem, glad that worked! And I can totally see not realizing that if you've just been using JRiver the whole time... easy to overlook!

Hi brh,

Thanks for your posts - and I'm glad you noticed our careful wiring 'under the hood.'  We warranty it for 10 years, so
it has to be very carefully built and using parts that are designed to last!   

Enjoy it!

Vinnie

I like that rationale, Vinnie!

[HPDJ]

Well, I had a chance to demo the integrated Sig16 today at a dealership in NYC and I definitely came away impressed! I brought my LCD 2's with me and a CD I burned with various styles of music. The Cd's played through a Musical Fidelity M1CDT transport and the M1SDAC (neither of which I own).

First off the Sig16 is smaller than I though it would be....nice wood finish, GREAT and smoooooth feeling volume knob. And, I'm usually not one to care much about remote controls....but this one is REAL nice. Very solid with some nice heft to it but not too much. The buttons on the remote make a little clicking noise when you press them and i was concerned about that before trying it with music playing....in which case I discovered that I don't hear the clicks at all. The clicking feel of the buttons is quite nice as well........ok, enough about the remote haha!

My CD consisted of acoustic tracks (Midlake) and mellow tracks (Feist) Hip-Hop (The Roots) Movie Sountrack (Paycheck) some Soul (Nina Simone) etc etc. ALL of it sounded really wonderful through the amp with my LCD 2's....Nothing felt too "weighty" or "dark" at all...the bass was very tight and deep with all the tracks...images were sharp with a nice solidity to them and the soundstage was wide....wider than I expected it to be frankly. My jazz track (John Coltrane...forget which song) sounded sweet....

When using the remote, the volume knob on the amp bumps up slightly and it's just cool to see that....it's a small thing that's to be expected (I guess) but I like it. The increments that the volume goes up in, with the remote are just right I feel

After spending time with the headphones we switched to these little speakers from Audience called "The One"...and the Sig16 drove them excellently. (btw the little switch on the back of the amp for headphones/speakers is a very nice feature). The Audience speakers had some impressive bass for such small monitors and they imaged pretty well...I felt that there was maybe too much space b/t the speakers themselves...I think they are really intended to be used in a near-field setting (not exclusively) and I can imagine them doing very well in this regard. Vocals were nice and high-hats and cymbals were good. I wish I had time to try the Sig16's with the Harbeth P3ESR's...maybe next time! I have a weakness for over achieving small speakers

Anyway, those are my quick and dirty impressions of the Sig16 as a headphone amp and a speaker amp...I AM curious about the tube stage being connected to the headphone output or not though....would be great if Vinnie could comment on that because if they ARE connected then it would provide a great way to tailor the sound not only for speakers but for headphones as well via tube-rolling. Either way, the way it sounded to me today was just great!

Could someone (maybe brh) let me know what each position of the "On/Off" section of the amp does starting from LEFT to RIGHT?? Because the dealer had that particular power knob in the MIDDLE position the whole time and.......yeah, I'm not sure if I was even listening to the amp in full-on battery mode. I didn't realize till the end of the audition...    

[embz]

I upgraded from the Sig 15 to the Sig 16 in January.  The Sig 15 took a while to grow on me, but the Sig 16 had an immediate WOW factor from the first note.  I thought the upgrade was significant.  The soundstage was bigger and the timbre was better as well.  I am using a Miniwatt Dario tube instead of the stock one. 

The Sig 16 got me excited about my 2 channel system and I decided to upgrade to the Bellina Pro a few months later.  And I'm currently upgrading my speakers which right now are the Ascend Acoustic Sierra-1 NRT.  Don't get me wrong the Sig 16 drives them very nicely; they are rated @ 87db@1W/1m and my room is 36x14. 

I haven't seconded guessed the upgrade to the Sig 16 once.

I agree about the remote from HPDJ's post and BTW, full battery mode is the when the switch is furthest to the right.