12 ax7 for Rogue integrated

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 13508 times.

Bigfishhk

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 305
Re: 12 ax7 for Rogue integrated
« Reply #80 on: 18 Jun 2013, 12:10 am »
I think what he was saying  wasn't so much " they are ONLY  for a problem cirucit" but that if there wasn't a problem where the lower gain was needed,   he didn't see the benifit using them and that the higher gain 12aX7 would be more dynamic.
That is how  I interpeted it  anyway,  I wasn't very clear in the  wording

-jay

Maybe that,s right. I would say the 12ax7 better bass and possibly dynamics but not big difference to my ears. But overall trasnparency and sweetness, the 5751 seems best. I don,t find it easy to hear the differences unless it,s a A/B test. Can't do that fast enough with tube comparisons myself.
There were some other 5751 fans who pointed me in the 5751 direction who could add their opinions on the differences.
I think you best give them a shot yourself. Would enjoy hearing your feedback.
Tom

Bigfishhk

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 305
Re: 12 ax7 for Rogue integrated
« Reply #81 on: 18 Jun 2013, 01:26 am »
I think what he was saying  wasn't so much " they are ONLY  for a problem cirucit" but that if there wasn't a problem where the lower gain was needed,   he didn't see the benifit using them and that the higher gain 12aX7 would be more dynamic.


Maybe I am listening to too mellow music these days.. What suggestions for great songs to test dynamics?

Captainhemo

Re: 12 ax7 for Rogue integrated
« Reply #82 on: 18 Jun 2013, 04:22 am »
Maybe that,s right. I would say the 12ax7 better bass and possibly dynamics but not big difference to my ears. But overall trasnparency and sweetness, the 5751 seems best. I don,t find it easy to hear the differences unless it,s a A/B test. Can't do that fast enough with tube comparisons myself.
There were some other 5751 fans who pointed me in the 5751 direction who could add their opinions on the differences.
I think you best give them a shot yourself. Would enjoy hearing your feedback.
Tom

I agree it is difficult to  make  comparisons ... I  find I have to put  quite a bit of time  on  to  determine how  I   really like  / dislike something.  I have  2  different pairs of 12AX7's  right now,  a pair of RI Mullards and a pair of Baldwins  I was switching back and forth   trying to determine  which ones I liked and it is obviously the  baldwins as    I keep having to  tell myself to  try the Mullards again   where as when   the Mullards are in,    I keep   wanting to put the Baldwins back in.
The guy I got the   amp from  said the  Mullards had very  low hours on them  so  maybe they just need some more hours on them.  The Baldwins just seem to   be cleaner sounding  and vocals seem better.  I don't know,  maybe i should  just be looking for a good source   that has good stock of the Baldwins  at a decent price...  I'll go back through this thread and check out some of the links that have been provided.  I still may try a pair  of the 5751's  to   compare  with the   12AX7's i have now

I personally  like to  listen   to  the music I enjoy to make my  assessment  as  that is what I'll be listening to ..  I too find myself listening  to  much  mellower music as compared  to what I  used to listen to

-jay

Bigfishhk

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 305
Re: 12 ax7 for Rogue integrated
« Reply #83 on: 18 Jun 2013, 01:52 pm »
I think what he was saying  wasn't so much " they are ONLY  for a problem cirucit" but that if there wasn't a problem where the lower gain was needed,   he didn't see the benifit using them and that the higher gain 12aX7 would be more dynamic.
 

-jay

emailed Mark O Brien again and asked about 5751 vs 12ax7
he said
"I don't think the 5751 reduce dynamics at
all."

I know I am not hearing any difference in that dept vs the 12AX7, except maybe a tiny bit less bass but even that I am not quite sure I am hearing things or not!. However the whole musical image is better focussed so I like my 5751. Also I noticed that the 5751 had even more beneift when I was using the Tempst 2 in intergrated mode. As I now have it hooked up to a 99 s. magnum pre amp, the benefit of the 5751 is not quite as big. With the Tempest alone I feel it really needs better focus and trasnparency and the 5751 helped it.
at this point I am pretty much done with rolling tubes, well for now anyway. I have 2 Sylvania 6sn7 to try in the pre amp and that's it. Will alternate the EH 5751 and Telefunken 12ax7 in the amp when I want a little change.

TB



TB

ltr317

Re: 12 ax7 for Rogue integrated
« Reply #84 on: 18 Jun 2013, 03:33 pm »
Captain - Baldwin did not, nor did any of the other organ makers manufactured tubes.  They all bought from the major tube manufacturers and relabeled them.  Are there any codes on the Baldwins?  I might be able to identify them if you want to get some more. 

Captainhemo

Re: 12 ax7 for Rogue integrated
« Reply #85 on: 18 Jun 2013, 06:46 pm »
Tom,  thanks for  emailing  Mark again and asking about the 5751's, apprieciate the info


ltr317 , yes,  I realize  that Baldwin didn't  manufatuer their own tubes just wasn't 100%   who made them  so I've  just  been calling them Baldwins.  I believe they are made by Sylvania bit mpt 100% sire, edit these are Rayteons).
There are some  markings/codes...
Baldwin is  written in blue..
To the upper left of baldwin  it's marked 12AX7A
To the lower left of Baldwin is 5026
To the lower right  P28065 49C

I put a few pictures  in the Misc folder in y gallery (sorry not the greatest shots)
It'd be great if you could help itdentify  the manufactuer , would really apprieciate that.  Would be nice if I found out they were readily available for a   similar price to    current production, I know, wishful thinking right ?

-jay

Actually, doing some   looking around on google.  it would seem the the P280XX is a Raytheon date code  where the Sylvania would have a  312... is this correct ?
 
« Last Edit: 3 Dec 2013, 12:11 am by Captainhemo »

ltr317

Re: 12 ax7 for Rogue integrated
« Reply #86 on: 19 Jun 2013, 01:57 am »
Tom,  thanks for  emailing  Mark again and asking about the 5751's, apprieciate the info


ltr317 , yes,  I realize  that Baldwin didn't  manufatuer their own tubes just wasn't 100%   who made them  so I've  just  been calling them Baldwins.  I believe they are made by Sylvania bit mpt 1--% sire.
There are some  markings/codes...
Baldwin is  written in blue..
To the upper left of baldwin  it's marked 12AX7A
To the lower left of Baldwin is 5026
To the lower right  P28065 49C

I put a few pictures  in the Misc folder in y gallery (sorry not the greatest shots)
It'd be great if you could help itdentify  the manufactuer , would really apprieciate that.  Would be nice if I found out they were readily available for a   similar price to    current production, I know, wishful thinking right ?

-jay

Actually, doing some   looking around on google.  it would seem the the P280XX is a Raytheon date code  where the Sylvania would have a  312... is this correct ?

Yes, that's a Raytheon date code. 

Captainhemo

Re: 12 ax7 for Rogue integrated
« Reply #87 on: 19 Jun 2013, 02:28 am »
Yes, that's a Raytheon date code.

 
Yes, that's a Raytheon date code.

Thank you for confirming that, at  least I know  what  I like now   LOL.  Brent Jessie has   NOS  Raytheon black plate organ tubes for $90 matched pair.   
Would still like to find a current production that sounds like them.  I have been   seeing that the  RI Tung-Sol's are very popular.   Guess I'm going to try a pair of those or the EH 5751's discussed above,  might have to flip a coin ....

-jay

vnttg

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 33
Re: 12 ax7 for Rogue integrated
« Reply #88 on: 20 Jun 2013, 03:11 pm »
I have recently bought a Cronus Magnum. I replaced the whole stock tubes (which came with Magnum) with the the set of Tung-Sol KT120 and Genalex Gold Lion 12 AX7. The imaging is very bright, vocal is clearer, but somehow it lacks the bass, the warmth of the old stocks.

Alexdad54

Re: 12 ax7 for Rogue integrated
« Reply #89 on: 24 Jun 2013, 10:33 pm »
I'm going to try changing just the preamp 12ua7 first and have a line on some NOS here in Canada. Appreciate any recommendations re these choices as they all seem to be good ones to me (shows how deep my tube expertise is! :lol: )

Sylvania gold brand,  all from the mid 1950's, with long plates, all NOS:
5814, triple mica,  grey plate bent square getter
5963 bent square getter, grey plate
12au7 blackplate bent square getter 

1950's Raytheon blackplate, with the angled square getter (not O getter)
Amperex, Holland rare  dimple getter, orange globe, tests new

Bigfishhk

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 305
Re: 12 ax7 for Rogue integrated
« Reply #90 on: 26 Jun 2013, 04:49 pm »
I have recently bought a Cronus Magnum. I replaced the whole stock tubes (which came with Magnum) with the the set of Tung-Sol KT120 and Genalex Gold Lion 12 AX7. The imaging is very bright, vocal is clearer, but somehow it lacks the bass, the warmth of the old stocks.
How much time have you given the new tubes to settle in?
Tom

Captainhemo

Re: 12 ax7 for Rogue integrated
« Reply #91 on: 5 Jul 2013, 03:56 am »
Ok,   received my pair of  EH 5751 GP's from Cryoset this am.   I pulled my  Baldwin (Raytheon) 12AX7's and rolled the  5751's into my JD302CRC.  I must say ,  I'm pretty impressed with these right out of the box.   I only have about 6-7 hrs on them but   they sound very good.   The highs could be a bit smoother but  I'm  sure that will come with some  hours.  Not noticing any   decrease in volume level or  in dynamics when compared to the 12AX7's I had in previously.  In fact, if anything,  I'd say the bottom is a bit cleaner and tighter !  I know it is very early, but  I'm  pleased so far.   
Guess the only bad news is   Ron from  Cryoset informed me today  that  New Sensor has discontinued the 5751 Gold Pins,  need to clarify with him if that was just the GP edition or the 5751 itself

I'll update a bit more  when  I get some  hours on the tubes

-jay
« Last Edit: 3 Dec 2013, 12:13 am by Captainhemo »

bajaed

Re: 12 ax7 for Rogue integrated
« Reply #92 on: 2 Dec 2013, 05:47 am »
Jay, what's the latest on your 5751's?

Captainhemo

Re: 12 ax7 for Rogue integrated
« Reply #93 on: 2 Dec 2013, 10:13 pm »
Jay, what's the latest on your 5751's?

Funny you should ask that    as  just the other night  I rolled the Ratheon 12AX7's back in.  After listening to the  EH 5751's for the past 3 months, I wanted to throw the Rayteons back in for comparison.
First off,  I have been very happy with the EH5751 GP's.   Like mentioned above they are veyr musical  and I find them to be very smooth  When I  rolled them in  a few months ago  I did not notice any drop off in dynamics from the  Raytheons.  They seemed well extened in both bass and the highs.  I found and still find  vocals to be extemely clear and well reporduced.  When people are here,  I always get comments on how  well people can hear the vocals.

Now, upon returning to the  Raytheons the other night,   I DID notice an improvement in dynamics which also seems to have made a slight improvement to the soundstage.   Seems to be a bit wider with a bit more detail/seperation  between instraments. These differences are not dramatic but they are  there   The  raytheons don't seem  to do quite as good a job  with vocals. Again, not a huge difference but the vocals just aren't quite  equal to   those heard when using the  EH 5751's
As I mentioned earlier. when I rolled the 5751's in,  I did not notice any drop in dynamics, strange that I did going the other way.  Since the initial installation of the 5751's I have replaced my caps with Clarity MR's (coupling and signal ground)  and  wonder if   the new caps  are letting the additional gain of the  12AX7's become noticable ... :scratch:

I'd say you can't go too far wrong  with the EH5751's except that New Sensor has stopped producing them.
I'd  also be interested in hear from   the others who have now put some time on these tubes

-jay