[JohnR]

Of course it's fair and ethical to browse Audiogon for any reason

I don't think you answered my question, which was in respect to what you said:

"A lot of people who won't pay to list on Audiogon do still browse there to see what the same or similar items are selling for"

Is it fair and ethical to demand service that you haven't paid for?

[stevenkelby]

Define "Demand".

I think it's understandable that people are "upset".

I don't give Google, any money but would be annoyed if it stopped working.

[medium jim]

JohnR:

In the States, we have Public Broadcasting Television  or PBS that relies largely on public donations to survive, along with Government Grants.  Are you saying it would be unethical to watch them if you didn't contribute?

Audiogon survives because of sponsors and seller fees, yet without buyers who don't pay any fees, they couldn't exist!  It is those unethical folks who kick the tires who eventually turn into buyers, even if they are just looking for what this or that sells for to list somewhere else.

We are in the age of the Internet and this is the new reality and ethics or integrity are not being breached IMHO.

Jim

[mtruong34]

Audiogon has banner advertising, so even those who use Audiogon as a Seller's research tool, are contributing just as much as those who are merely "window shopping" for audio goods.  So, not unfair and not unethical.

[Phil A]

Audiogon has banner advertising, so even those who use Audiogon as a Seller's research tool, are contributing just as much as those who are merely "window shopping" for audio goods.  So, not unfair and not unethical.

Yes, and if they wanted to, they could require a sign up to see certain things.  Communication when buying an item goes through their server (and when it sees something as an e-mail address in the communication, vs. writing 'atgmaildotcom,' it gets flagged).  It is left open so that people can browse and buy things.  While I continue to sell things and buy, most of the time it is to look/window shop

[MaxCast]

I don't think John is talking about people complaining that the site is down, but rather

Is it fair and ethical to demand service that you haven't paid for?

[medium jim]

I don't think John is talking about people complaining that the site is down, but rather

Max, under that premise, only sellers have the right to complain, which to answer, he is wrong.

Jim

[jaylevine]

don't know what is going on but something is/was re: was logged on last night then tried to just log in. My password was not accepted and I had to reset to get logged back in.

Maybe an upgrade and/or restore that went wrong....

[neekomax]

Is it ethical to browse Audiogon in order to get information that might be of use in a transaction that doesn't involve Audiogon? Perfectly, as the ethics of the use of information are such in this day and age that there is no quid pro quo expected, information itself is free if one makes it publicly available.

And the real point is that it builds Audiogon up as an authoritative marketplace in the public's esteem, which is arguably the best thing that could happen to any online business.

So it's ethical, and even beneficial to Audiogon.

IMHO.

[TheChairGuy]

Haven't looked in the longest time there.....fortunately my penchant for turning audio goods over coincided with their steep decline in service (and, in tandem, higher pries they began charging)

It was great to have had one central database of buy/sell items that almost everyone in the audiophool community agreed was the place to buy & sell....but, they're next to irrelevant now in a more fractured marketplace for audio gear.

It wasn't competition that did them in - it was their own poor management of what was nearly a monopoly on high end audio goods.

Hubris was a crime punishable by death in the ancient city state of Athens. Slothfulness wasn't...somewhere in between seems to be where Audiogon turned.

- John

[Phil A]

I don't see the issue as any different if there was a retail store that dealt in used audio equipment.  It's part of dealing with the public. Is it unethical to walk in to a retail store to get price guidelines?  Yes, there are those that abuse the system like those who walk into car dealers to test drive cars they have no intention of buying.  There is nothing wrong with curiosity or getting more consumer education.  There does come a point when it could turn into abuse.

[Scott F.]

Hubris was a crime punishable by death in the ancient city state of Athens. 

You learn something new everyday   

[JohnR]

Define "Demand".

[wilsynet]

Yes, it's ethical and fair.  It's fairly easy for Audiogon to only allow only members to browse, but that's not what they do.  They deliberately leave it wide open for all.

Walking into a Best Buy to check out some gear, then buying it more cheaply on Amazon, now that's not ethical or fair.

[mtruong34]

So by that definition anyone who has gone to a store and after being asked "may I help you" responds "just browsing" is being unfair and unethical.  Any DIY'er who has ever looked at commercial goods for ideas towards their homemade concoctions are being unfair and unethical.

[JohnR]

So by that definition anyone who has gone to a store and after being asked "may I help you" responds "just browsing" is being unfair and unethical.  Any DIY'er who has ever looked at commercial goods for ideas towards their homemade concoctions are being unfair and unethical.

The only "definition" like that here is one that a bunch of you guys made up!!   

[Goosepond]

It's called free enterprise and dog-eat-dog competition. No one said it's easy! 

Gene